MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #21 Retrial

[Luna20]

Praying for a new judge.

She is obnoxious. What is she after? Is she in on the collective corruption? Is she elected or appointed? Maybe someone has done favors for her to be elected.

 

[waldojabba]

Not a big difference from your measurements, but I happened to see the "about 72 feet" in the article. ​

‘I f***ing hate you!’: Prosecution plays voicemails Karen Read left for John O'Keefe the morning he died

Jurors on Thursday also learned the extent of John O’Keefe’s head injuries and the reason his manner of death was listed as “undetermined.”

www.boston.com

Guarino and Trooper Michael Proctor went back to 34 Fairview Road on May 8, 2023, to gauge the distance from the spot where O’Keefe’s body was found to the home’s front door — a span of about 72 feet, he said.​

Johns body was not a straight line from the front door or the breezeway door to the street . He was over by the flag pole so it would be a diagonal measurement to the street that way - so both measurements are likely correct. JMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

There’s zero healthy boundaries in this relationship & a total lack of mutual respect.
I do feel she was far more manipulative.
It seems John wanted boundaries around the children and Karen just ignored those and kept crossing the line.
He couldn’t talk on the phone as there was people around, his niece and his father. Instead of respecting that - she just kept calling & calling.
She didn’t want kids, or to be a mother. That’s okay but then don’t hook up with a man that’s responsible for two.
I feel like she wanted desperately for him to chose HER over those kids


They both should have ended it long ago.

IMO

Referring to only the texts that we saw in evidence so far, I found him more manipulative. She was trying to have an honest conversation (not the best plan via text) and he kept dodging her direct questions. They had had a horrible argument at his doing in the morning and she needed affirmation that he cared about her.

He could have helped her feel better if he had just texted her to say "I will call you as soon as I have a moment to talk privately or I'll call you at 5pm". That's all it would have taken IMO. Truth. Care. But instead he kept hanging up on her and ignoring her. That is such manipulative behavior on his part IMO.

She seemed to really love his kids, but even biological parents need breaks from the stressors of raising kids.

I do agree they both should have saw the writing on the wall and ended it sooner.

MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

yes, and she also looks like a little girl..so petite.. mOO

Wondering what her size and appearance has to do with anything? Can you elaborate?

 

[Amber29]

I don’t love these clips played. I think this could make some jurors curious to look up the interview in its entirety. I know they are instructed not to but they are human after all and curiosity is real. Being played certain clips, they know they are being cherry picked and taken out of context. I don’t think prosecutors should open that door. IMO

 

[arielilane]

Poor Officer John O’Keefe. May he finally be at peace. Didnt realize the scope of abuse/gaslighling he most likely experienced from KR. A jealous girlfriend (apparently she's a drunk) that didnt want him around other women, as MC testified to.

She had to be the one to control the narrative and get the last word in every time... total control freak, her way, or no way. Those text messages show passive aggressive manipulation. Typical narcissist behavior.

I wouldn’t be surprised if her narrative about the plumber ... all made up. No plumber that night… no plumbing issue. Just typical gaslighting...

Also, trying to make JOK jealous by flirting and kissing with John’s friend BH.

KR is sinking her own ship.

It was KR's and Jackson's idea to film the ID doc series because they were certain of an acquittal. Oh, how wrong they were.

Now, we get to watch her narrate her own 2nd trial. Watch Jackson wish he was somewhere else other than sitting next to a loser; and today he looked like Alessi (jack in the box) but I'll say more like he had ants in his pants.

Best of all experience the brilliant ADA Hank Brennan and I am here for it.

Matter of opinion

 

[Linda7NJ]

Referring to only the texts that we saw in evidence so far, I found him more manipulative. She was trying to have an honest conversation (not the best plan via text) and he kept dodging her direct questions. They had had a horrible argument at his doing in the morning and she needed affirmation that he cared about her.

He could have helped her feel better if he had just texted her to say "I will call you as soon as I have a moment to talk privately or I'll call you at 5pm". That's all it would have taken IMO. Truth. Care. But instead he kept hanging up on her and ignoring her. That is such manipulative behavior on his part IMO.

She seemed to really love his kids, but even biological parents need breaks from the stressors of raising kids.

I do agree they both should have saw the writing on the wall and ended it sooner.

MOO

Karen Read refused to let go of the earlier argument even after he apologized.

O'Keefe sent a text to Read at 10:02 a.m. that day, saying, "'m sorry. This has been an issue w me for 8 years. It physically hurts me to see EVERYONE else in their life do things for them and I'm forced to ALWAYS be the bad guy." Later, at 2:17 p.m., he reiterated his apology, texting,
"Not sure what else you want me to do. I said I'm sorry and I was outta line. If you prefer to stay home I totally get it."

 

[waldojabba]

She is obnoxious. What is she after? Is she in on the collective corruption? Is she elected or appointed? Maybe someone has done favors for her to be elected.

Who is Judge Beverly Cannone? What to know about judge in Karen Read trial
It looks like there is a paywall but just X out and you should be able to read the article - gives you a little flavor
The DA in Norfolk County is Michael Morrisey - we have heard him mentioned many times in MSM in connection to the FBI investigation
I have lived in Massachusetts in Norfolk County for 50 years and IMO only, it is definitiely a who you know state ...
Like maybe your mother worked with this one who knows that one etc.
There are usually very few degrees of separation in these appointments
Its the same in Connecticut IME
I think its probably more common than not in the public sector everywhere?
And loyalty is rewarded
And IME also in the private sector - connections are very valuable
JMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Karen Read refused to let go of the earlier argument even after he apologized.

O'Keefe sent a text to Read at 10:02 a.m. that day, saying, "'m sorry. This has been an issue w me for 8 years. It physically hurts me to see EVERYONE else in their life do things for them and I'm forced to ALWAYS be the bad guy." Later, at 2:17 p.m., he reiterated his apology, texting,
"Not sure what else you want me to do. I said I'm sorry and I was outta line. If you prefer to stay home I totally get it."

Well, if you've ever been in an argument, it's not a simple matter of just letting go. It takes time and more communication to feel validated.

As for JOK saying "I'm sorry. This has been an issue w me for 8 years. It physically hurts me to see EVERYONE else in their life do things for them and I'm forced to ALWAYS be the bad guy", all I can say to that is how manipulative it is. She wants to talk about the argument that he started earlier, but he turns it around into it being about him. Poor, poor John O'keefe that NOBODY understands and his life is soooooo hard when you're ALWAYS the bad guy. She's feeling hurt but he turns it into being about him.
When a man says, "Not sure what else you want me to do", he is not trying to be understanding or caring, but he is negating the entire event and therefore negating her feelings associated with it. He wants the issue to just go away. Just like he wanted the arguing to just go away but was not willing on working at it apparently. The best thing he said in those texts was that he was sorry and out of line. She should have stayed home.
FWIW, my opinion only about those texts.

 

[minazoe]

Wondering what her size and appearance has to do with anything? Can you elaborate?

I am not pretty shaming her..pretty shaming is wrong. but being pretty is to her advantage. there is power in beauty and she has an appearance of being small and harmless and it can give her an advantrage , just look at all the people who are defending her. mOO

 

[waldojabba]

The night John O'Keefe is dead; and she is more concerned about not having to take care of any kids.
Speaks volumes. moo

Testimony by DW: "she kept saying, I can't take care of these kids. I can't take care of these kids. They're not my kids, and they're not they're not his kids.”

I see it as Karen is more worried about who would take care of the kids.
Her immediate thought is OMG what's gonna happen to them ?

I sense there was a reason that John had custody of the kids even though imo he would seem to be the odd choice. So, IMO there was a reason he was the family member caring for the kids.
Now that he's gone I think that" what will happen to the kids" is going through her mind. She obviously cannot take care of them full time, and has no legal right to, and well you see how his family treats her.
So I see it it more as a concern for the kids. Thats evidenced by her call to Paul wanting to see them.
We just have two very different viewpoints/interpretations.
ALL IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, if you've ever been in an argument, it's not a simple matter of just letting go. It takes time and more communication to feel validated.

As for JOK saying "I'm sorry. This has been an issue w me for 8 years. It physically hurts me to see EVERYONE else in their life do things for them and I'm forced to ALWAYS be the bad guy", all I can say to that is how manipulative it is. She wants to talk about the argument that he started earlier, but he turns it around into it being about him. Poor, poor John O'keefe that NOBODY understands and his life is soooooo hard when you're ALWAYS the bad guy. She's feeling hurt but he turns it into being about him.
When a man says, "Not sure what else you want me to do", he is not trying to be understanding or caring, but he is negating the entire event and therefore negating her feelings associated with it. He wants the issue to just go away. Just like he wanted the arguing to just go away but was not willing on working at it apparently. The best thing he said in those texts was that he was sorry and out of line. She should have stayed home.
FWIW, my opinion only about those texts.

I John O’Keefe was like as the Patron Saint of Canton, according to Karen.
No one has a bad word to say about him and he never met anyone he didn’t befriend.


I just feel good relationships should NEVER be this difficult TWO YEARS IN.

IMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

I see it as Karen is more worried about who would take care of the kids.
Her immediate thought is OMG what's gonna happen to them ?

I saw it the same way as you.

 

[waldojabba]

I am not pretty shaming her..pretty shaming is wrong. but being pretty is to her advantage. there is power in beauty and she has an appearance of being small and harmless and it can give her an advantrage , just look at all the people who are defending her. mOO

Wow
I can only speak for myself. There is no way I am defending her bc of her looks.
I find her to be a very unsympathetic defendant. Lots of hard edges.
None of that has any bearing on whether she is Guilty or not.
JMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

I John O’Keefe was like as the Patron Saint of Canton, according to Karen.
No one has a bad word to say about him and he never met anyone he didn’t befriend.


I just feel good relationships should NEVER be this difficult TWO YEARS IN.

IMO

She did say he was the Patron Saint of Canton.
And yet, his own words illustrate his insecurity about being thought of as the bad guy.
Interesting psychology when you consider him being a cop (one of the good guys).
She also said he had to blow off steam a lot and everyone's happier when he blows off steam (paraphrasing). So, which one was it?

 

[Linda7NJ]

She did say he was the Patron Saint of Canton.
And yet, his own words illustrate his insecurity about being thought of as the bad guy.
Interesting psychology when you consider him being a cop (one of the good guys).
She also said he had to blow off steam a lot and everyone's happier when he blows off steam (paraphrasing). So, which one was it?

I understand his issue with her & the children.
It’s like divorced parents where the mom has the kids all week, dad gets them on the weekend and it seems he takes them to Disney every weekend, homework assignments, projects, rules all go out the window and moms the bad guy cause she has to crack the whip and hold the kid accountable.

I’ve witnesses that many times - that’s how I view the situation with Karen & John.

Then everyone says, “oh she’s so good to those kids” how can anyone get mad at her buying them expensive things -
I can see where it’s understandable and warranted.

IMO

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Have we ever heard the reason why Chloe was “rehomed”? Nicole Albert testified that Chloe was good with people including strangers, she was allowed anywhere in the house and slept with her and her husband at night. She had a bite history with a dog that was being walked by 2 women when she escaped from the backyard and one woman was bitten when she tried to break it up. The other woman may have been injured as she fell. Is there anything else we know about her?

 

[lohrtabitha]

I didn't find the defense aggressive or grandstanding when they cross examined KerR. Actually, I thought they even toned it down while she was on the stand. They questioned her about two different examples of false testimony (the time when KR pointed out her cracked taillight and that Kerry told the GJ she heard Karen say something that she never in fact heard but was only told had happened by JMc.
This is otherwise known as perjury no matter how sweet you come across as a person.
IIRC, they didn't cross examine her at all during Trial 1 so it was important that they point out these discrepancies in her various testimonies IMO.
As a point of interest to me, she testified at some point that she didn't want to "point the finger" at KR, which was very sweet to hear, and at the same time, she drove Peg and John Sr to the hospital and seemed to be pointing her finger at Karen for the entire trip, to the point that John Sr asked them to give Karen a break. Later, Peg didn't even talk to Karen when she saw her at the hospital and even asked a nurse why she was there! Why wouldn't the girlfriend who found John be there? Why was Peg so bitter after a car ride with KerR?
These are exactly the nuances that need to be flushed out.
Since you've done jury service in a murder case, you could also draw on that experience to know how crucial it is to the integrity of a trial for witnesses to provide consistent, truthful testimony.
MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Have we ever heard the reason why Chloe was “rehomed”? Nicole Albert testified that Chloe was good with people including strangers, she was allowed anywhere in the house and slept with her and her husband at night. She had a bite history with a dog that was being walked by 2 women when she escaped from the backyard and one woman was bitten when she tried to break it up. The other woman may have been injured as she fell. Is there anything else we know about her?

Chloe is the only German Shepherd that doesn’t shed hair and suffers from dry mouth with zero saliva
IMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

I didn't find the defense aggressive or grandstanding when they cross examined KerR. Actually, I thought they even toned it down while she was on the stand. They questioned her about two different examples of false testimony (the time when KR pointed out her cracked taillight and that Kerry told the GJ she heard Karen say something that she never in fact heard but was only told had happened by JMc.
This is otherwise known as perjury no matter how sweet you come across as a person.
IIRC, they didn't cross examine her at all during Trial 1 so it was important that they point out these discrepancies in her various testimonies IMO.
As a point of interest to me, she testified at some point that she didn't want to "point the finger" at KR, which was very sweet to hear, and at the same time, she drove Peg and John Sr to the hospital and seemed to be pointing her finger at Karen for the entire trip, to the point that John Sr asked them to give Karen a break. Later, Peg didn't even talk to Karen when she saw her at the hospital and even asked a nurse why she was there! Why wouldn't the girlfriend who found John be there? Why was Peg so bitter after a car ride with KerR?
These are exactly the nuances that need to be flushed out.
Since you've done jury service in a murder case, you could also draw on that experience to know how crucial it is to the integrity of a trial for witnesses to provide consistent, truthful testimony.
MOO

Well said Forest!