MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #21 Retrial

[waldojabba]

Jurors in Karen Read murder retrial visit Canton home where John O’Keefe was found dead - Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

CANTON, MASS. (WHDH) - The jurors in the Karen Read murder retrial left the courthouse Friday to view the Canton house where victim John O’Keefe<a class="excerpt-read-more" href="https://whdh.com/news/jurors-in-karen-read-murder-retrial-visit-canton-home-where-john-okeefe-was-found-dead/">Read...

whdh.com

From the article

“At the scene, a neighbor was stuck behind a police roadblock. Everyone was kept 100 yards away from the home while the jury was present.

When asked about the general consensus on Read’s case, the neighbor said he doesn’t know people who are “split” on the issue.

“Not the people that I know. Everybody knows that she’s absolutely innocent,” the neighbor said.“

 

[rrsafety]

Jurors in Karen Read murder retrial visit Canton home where John O’Keefe was found dead - Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

CANTON, MASS. (WHDH) - The jurors in the Karen Read murder retrial left the courthouse Friday to view the Canton house where victim John O’Keefe<a class="excerpt-read-more" href="https://whdh.com/news/jurors-in-karen-read-murder-retrial-visit-canton-home-where-john-okeefe-was-found-dead/">Read...

whdh.com

From the article

“At the scene, a neighbor was stuck behind a police roadblock. Everyone was kept 100 yards away from the home while the jury was present.

When asked about the general consensus on Read’s case, the neighbor said he doesn’t know people who are “split” on the issue.

“Not the people that I know. Everybody knows that she’s absolutely innocent,” the neighbor said.“

I have friends in Canton (kids around same age as Colin Albert) and they don’t think Karen Read is guilty. I also have cop friends from surrounding towns near Canton and they don’t think she did it either.

 

[waldojabba]

Have we ever heard the reason why Chloe was “rehomed”? Nicole Albert testified that Chloe was good with people including strangers, she was allowed anywhere in the house and slept with her and her husband at night. She had a bite history with a dog that was being walked by 2 women when she escaped from the backyard and one woman was bitten when she tried to break it up. The other woman may have been injured as she fell. Is there anything else we know about her?

So here’s a court tv interview with a neighbor of Fairview - he mentions friends of his being bit by Chloe / I’m not sure if it’s the same person you reference

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915941104949858317

 

[waldojabba]

I have friends in Canton (kids around same age as Colin Albert) and they don’t think Karen Read is guilty. I also have cop friends from surrounding towns near Canton and they don’t think she did it either.

I live seven miles from the courthouse and I don’t know anyone who thinks she did it either.
What seems incredulous to outsiders unfortunately is seemingly the reality.
A “culture” or a way of doing things seemingly tolerated for way too long
Of course they are digging in their heels to fight exposure.
Circle the wagons.

JMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Have we ever heard the reason why Chloe was “rehomed”? Nicole Albert testified that Chloe was good with people including strangers, she was allowed anywhere in the house and slept with her and her husband at night. She had a bite history with a dog that was being walked by 2 women when she escaped from the backyard and one woman was bitten when she tried to break it up. The other woman may have been injured as she fell. Is there anything else we know about her?

Yet Nicole's husband Brain Albert testified Chloe was "not good with strangers" and he had to hold onto her when he was taking her outside past everyone at the house party. Key words here are "when she escaped from the back yard". Could she have escaped that night resulting in an attack on the stranger JOK? Chloe was let outside around the same time as John was arriving. Brian Albert said she did her business and came right back in. I find that so hard to believe. She was upstairs all night and possibly all day. She's a big energetic dog that appreciates a romp in the outdoors. They had a fenced in yard. And he says he stood there watching her. I doubt it.
It's interesting husband and wife said two different things about Chloe.
MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

I think it would be super helpful if they had taken the jurors to the house at night instead of the day. I've seen and heard mention that a body would be impossible to miss. Also that the yard is smaller than the photos appear.

Does anyone know if the juror who came forward mentioned the actual scene and whether they believed a body on the ground could be missed by so many people walking to the house and driving by? I never watched his interview.

I think them seeing the house without snow makes a difference also. With snow, and snowbanks, it makes the yard even smaller, and brighter. There wasn't much snow at the time of the alleged incident, but in the morning there was. At least it will give them a better idea of distance as well as having the SUV parked there to view positioning. Another point I just now thought of was that nobody driving by that road all night saw him lying there either. It was like he was invisible from 12:30-06:00. Nobody saw him for 5.5 hours supposedly. Even the Ford Edge parked right in front of him didn't see him. Makes no sense.
MOO.

 

[Angelwatch]

I think them seeing the house without snow makes a difference also. With snow, and snowbanks, it makes the yard even smaller, and brighter. There wasn't much snow at the time of the alleged incident, but in the morning there was. At least it will give them a better idea of distance as well as having the SUV parked there to view positioning. Another point I just now thought of was that nobody driving by that road all night saw him lying there either. It was like he was invisible from 12:30-06:00. Nobody saw him for 5.5 hours supposedly. Even the Ford Edge parked right in front of him didn't see him. Makes no sense.
MOO.

So far in the trial, we’ve only seen the scene through blurry windshields with wind and snow. Being there and seeing it in person must be really helpful to the jurors.

 

[Angelwatch]

So here’s a court tv interview with a neighbor of Fairview - he mentions friends of his being bit by Chloe / I’m not sure if it’s the same person you reference

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915941104949858317

I’ll be honest, I’m a little worried for that guy. Hope he’s left alone.

 

[TristanP]

Why did she call JO her husband? And since we are keeping track. That is a lie.

You're assuming Karen called him her husband. It's just as likely that the Paramedics made an assumption.

If they called him her husband, and she corrected them and said "He's not my husband, he's my boyfriend," there would be people online upset with her for correcting the paramedics: "Why was she bothering to correct paramedics on a small detail when John was dying?"

 

[lohrtabitha]

So far in the trial, we’ve only seen the scene through blurry windshields with wind and snow. Being there and seeing it in person must be really helpful to the jurors.

I wish the jurors could have gone inside the house too. One to see that there is 3 flights of stairs [which later in the trial if the defense uses the Apple Watch data- this could help the jurors visualize it}. Two, to see the Albert's bedroom and how close it was to the window and if they could hear if there was noise/commotion outside. There is no way that the German Shepherd slept through everything going on outside when they discovered John. You can't take the animal trait of alerting out of a Shepherd or any dog for that matter. Unfortunately, because of Proctor, the whole investigation was botched. If someone is dead on your property, you are going to be questioned and your house searched. That is the bottom line. Proctor didn't question Albert because they knew each other. KR can never really get a fair trial because the whole investigation was corrupted from the start. MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I wish the jurors could have gone inside the house too. One to see that there is 3 flights of stairs [which later in the trial if the defense uses the Apple Watch data- this could help the jurors visualize it}. Two, to see the Albert's bedroom and how close it was to the window and if they could hear if there was noise/commotion outside. There is no way that the German Shepherd slept through everything going on outside when they discovered John. You can't take the animal trait of alerting out of a Shepherd or any dog for that matter. Unfortunately, because of Proctor, the whole investigation was botched. If someone is dead on your property, you are going to be questioned and your house searched. That is the bottom line. Proctor didn't question Albert because they knew each other. KR can never really get a fair trial because the whole investigation was corrupted from the start. MOO

If that German Shepard was barking why didn’t anyone at the scene hear it?????

 

[Linda7NJ]

I wish the jurors could have gone inside the house too. One to see that there is 3 flights of stairs [which later in the trial if the defense uses the Apple Watch data- this could help the jurors visualize it}. Two, to see the Albert's bedroom and how close it was to the window and if they could hear if there was noise/commotion outside. There is no way that the German Shepherd slept through everything going on outside when they discovered John. You can't take the animal trait of alerting out of a Shepherd or any dog for that matter. Unfortunately, because of Proctor, the whole investigation was botched. If someone is dead on your property, you are going to be questioned and your house searched. That is the bottom line. Proctor didn't question Albert because they knew each other. KR can never really get a fair trial because the whole investigation was corrupted from the start. MOO

There was ZERO probable cause to get a warrant to search that house

 

[PamCake]

I am not pretty shaming her..pretty shaming is wrong. but being pretty is to her advantage. there is power in beauty and she has an appearance of being small and harmless and it can give her an advantrage , just look at all the people who are defending her. mOO

Things that make you go hmmm…

 

[lohrtabitha]

If that German Shepard was barking why didn’t anyone at the scene hear it?????

How do you know they didn't? It doesn't matter about people outside, it's the Albert's inside that didn't go out to see what was going on and to help.

 

[lohrtabitha]

There was ZERO probable cause to get a warrant to search that house

What???? Dead body on your property is probable cause for the search of the entire perimeter and the inside of the house included.

 

[PamCake]

Yet Nicole's husband Brain Albert testified Chloe was "not good with strangers" and he had to hold onto her when he was taking her outside past everyone at the house party. Key words here are "when she escaped from the back yard". Could she have escaped that night resulting in an attack on the stranger JOK? Chloe was let outside around the same time as John was arriving. Brian Albert said she did her business and came right back in. I find that so hard to believe. She was upstairs all night and possibly all day. She's a big energetic dog that appreciates a romp in the outdoors. They had a fenced in yard. And he says he stood there watching her. I doubt it.
It's interesting husband and wife said two different things about Chloe.
MOO

Yes! This may be how it all started. The men, maybe having a smoke outside with the dog, and stranger John shows up.

 

[mrjitty]

What???? Dead body on your property is probable cause for the search of the entire perimeter and the inside of the house included.

IIRC Peter Tragos believes there was no probable cause. He discussed it on Mottas show.

wouldn’t stop officers trying to get a warrant of course.

 

[mrjitty]

One of the big differences in T2 will be the focus on the driveway collision with JOK's car in my opinion.

First, the CW has introduced the video clip of the defendant talking about picking pieces out of the tail light and dropping them on the ground. So it is now broadly common cause between CW and Defendant that pieces were in fact missing at that time - later confirmed on the dashcam after 8am.

Second the CW will introduce a reconstruction that shows it is not possible for JOKs vehicle to make contact with the superstructure of the Lexus where the taillight is housed to crack it - for two reasons. First the 2 bumpers are between the vehicles and would need to crumple in the horizontal plane. Second the speed is too low.

In T1, Dr Wolf of ARCCA, was asked if a low speed collision at 0-5 mph could cause the damage to the tail light and he said no.

The CW will argue that the defendant is engaged in narrative building in the clip - placing pieces on the ground so they can be staged at the crime scene by ... someone. They have 2 witnesses and the dashcam and ringcam showing significant material missing

Brennan covers the arguments from 3.06.30 in this pre-trial hearing incl. the testimony of Dr Wolf of ARCCA and the ring cam showing pieces missing already in the 5am hour, and before Kerry and Jen arrive. And especially this is all long before the Lexus goes to the Sallyport.

IMO this will be one of the most critical contests in the trial. How the D will address it I am not sure.

But in my view one thing is clear. The D theory will require the first pieces recovered by SERT to be staged from the driveway and not from the Sallyport.

 

[DustysMom]

It does seem that way BUT the testimony of JOK's friend, Mr Camerono, made Karen seem softer and more caring than previous witnesses. I even wonder why the prosecution called him to the stand, as he was so positive regarding Karen and John's relationship.

Yes!! Agree. And Mr. Camerono seemed so kind, genuine and very credible IMO.
In trial 1, Paul OK and his wife also spoke highly of KR. She was a friend/mentor/babysitter to the kids for 2 years and JO’s family and friends seemed to notice and approve. Anyone who has dated someone with kids knows that developing an accepted role and relationship with the children, the exes and family members can be challenging. So, it stands out to me that KR was seen as a trusted caregiver as well as a loving partner to JO.
YET- the evidence being presented paints KR to be volatile, codependent, insecure and conniving. Evidence like running around screaming like a banshee the morning of the 29th, multiple voice mails with profanity, the come-on texts with BH…
Given her state of intoxication and possible underlying anger with John, could she accidentally or intentionally ‘hit him’?
So far, I’m not convinced that his injuries are the result of a vehicular accident. I hope for some clearly explained scientific evidence this time around.
And, I gotta say, I’m really enjoying all of the differences in opinion here.

 

[mrjitty]

RBBM. It wasn't. Kerry Roberts wasn't treated poorly by Jackson. Jackson is an excellent attorney and he is doing his job. He treated her firmly, he did not raise his voice, he did not bully or abuse her. Jmo

+1

I must say the drama around whether such high quality lawyers are getting mad, running scared etc etc is kind of tiresome. They've all done this many many times.

One can and should discuss their tactical approach. It's not risk free going so hard on a civilian and the Judge was clearly exasperated with AJ crossing the line at the end there. But on the other hand, he probably did need to do this because prima facie this is a very bad witness for the defendant.

I think Kerry saying in the final moment that she unintentionally lied was a win for AJ, and she probably didn't need to answer given the Judge was stepping in at that point.

How much will any of this matter? Close to zero IMO.