MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #21 Retrial

[Wishbone]

You can’t see it from the photos

Dr. Scordi-Bello: “The majority of blunt force injuries were to the face and the head.”

 

[Kyshoegal]

According to the prosecution, he lay dying from about 12:26 onwards or died instantly at that time. According to the defense, he was kept somewhere warmer in a sitting position and was placed in the yard after 03:30 AM when the snowplow went by. This is my understanding of it anyway.
Hopefully an expert during the trial will answer this question about frostbite and hypothermia after death for us.
MOO.

I hope so!!!

 

[Forest_Wood]

The medical examiner talked about it too.

Rewatching this. At about 11:30.

Cause of Death is medical dependent.
Cause of Death was Blunt Force Injury of head and Hypothermia.
Any blunt object does not have a sharp edge, not a knife, not a razor edge.
Blunt force injuries could be the ground, a microphone, a heavy bottle, anything with a blunt edge.
Blunt impact injuries are one or a combination of the following 4 types due to impact from a blunt object:
Contusions (Bruises), Abrasions (Scratches), Fractures (Break in Bone), Lacerations (Tears in skin).

Manner of Death is based on circumstances.
Defined 5 manners or umbrellas of death: Natural. Accident. Homicide. Suicide. Undetermined.

Manner of Death was undetermined because she did not have enough information to determine.
Undetermined is defined as not enough evidence pointing to one manner over another manner.
Suicide and Natural were ruled out.
This left 3 remaining possibilities. Undetermined. Homicide. Accident.

As a reminder, Michael Proctor was ridiculed by his co-worker that he was a Rookie because he couldn't get a ruling of Homicide as Manner of Death from the Medical Examiner.

 

[Kyshoegal]

The question I asked you was unanswered though. How do you get multiple injuries to your face like the doctor above stated in trial 1

What were the injuries to his face? Other than the eyes? “Dr. Scordi-Bello: fractures were emanating from the back of the skull”. He could have easily hit his forehead on the car, the ground, the fire hydrant (I don’t think he did) but I believe the fractures towards the front of the skull could have been caused from blunt trauma to the back of the head because of the type of fracture they are. There was no clear bruising to the face other than the eyes. IMO he was not hit in face. But that’s just IMO as a nurse and working trauma for 15 years. I can tell you I have not seen everything. I don’t know everything and I don’t claim to. The amount of times I see someone come in that ER and I go wow that’s weird or that’s new. It’s still pretty frequent.

 

[Kyshoegal]

Rewatching this. At about 11:30.

Cause of Death is medical dependent.
Cause of Death was Blunt Force Injury of head and Hypothermia.
Any blunt object does not have a sharp edge, not a knife, not a razor edge.
Blunt force injuries could be the ground, a microphone, a heavy bottle, anything with a blunt edge.
Blunt impact injuries are one or a combination of the following 4 types due to impact from a blunt object:
Contusions (Bruises), Abrasions (Scratches), Fractures (Break in Bone), Lacerations (Tears in skin).

Manner based on circumstance of death.
Defined 5 manners or umbrellas of death: Natural. Accident. Homicide. Suicide. Undetermined.

Manner of Death was undetermined because she did not have enough information to determine.
Undetermined is defined as not enough evidence pointing to one manner over another manner.
Suicide and Natural were ruled out. This left 3 remaining possibilities. Undetermined. Homicide. Accident.

As a reminder, Michael Proctor was ridiculed by his co-worker that he was a Rookie because he couldn't get a ruling of Homicide as Manner of Death from the Medical Examiner.

Hang on lol. I’m watching this now.

 

[keek]

Rewatching this. At about 11:30.

Cause of Death is medical dependent.
Cause of Death was Blunt Force Injury of head and Hypothermia.
Any blunt object does not have a sharp edge, not a knife, not a razor edge.
Blunt force injuries could be the ground, a microphone, a heavy bottle, anything with a blunt edge.
Blunt impact injuries are one or a combination of the following 4 types due to impact from a blunt object:
Contusions (Bruises), Abrasions (Scratches), Fractures (Break in Bone), Lacerations (Tears in skin).

Manner based on circumstance of death.
Defined 5 manners or umbrellas of death: Natural. Accident. Homicide. Suicide. Undetermined.

Manner of Death was undetermined because she did not have enough information to determine.
Undetermined is defined as not enough evidence pointing to one manner over another manner.
Suicide and Natural were ruled out. This left 3 remaining possibilities. Undetermined. Homicide. Accident.

As a reminder, Michael Proctor was ridiculed by his co-worker that he was a Rookie because he couldn't get a ruling of Homicide as Manner of Death from the Medical Examiner.

It was all such a mess. I really felt no faith in the medical examiners for the state. Key word all worked for the state of MA. Like all the other parties, ATTY GEN MORRISSEY, etc. etc.. Trooper.

 

[Kyshoegal]

The question I asked you was unanswered though. How do you get multiple injuries to your face like the doctor above stated in trial 1

Dr. Scordi-Bello: “The majority of blunt force injuries were to the face and the head.”

The question I asked you was unanswered though. How do you get multiple injuries to your face like the doctor above stated in trial 1

According to the testimony, I saw as posted on here she said “Cause of Death was Blunt Force Injury of head and Hypothermia.”

 

[lohrtabitha]

The question I asked you was unanswered though. How do you get multiple injuries to your face like the doctor above stated in trial 1

Also, not to keep at the issue the Dr. did say in trial 1 that the injuries to the face and head could have come from being punched: here is the record of that:
Assistant District Attorney Adam Lally asked Scordi-Bello if the injuries to O’Keefe were consistent with a pedestrian strike.

“These are not the classic injuries we see in a pedestrian crash, no,” Scordi-Bello said.

She said she did not find injuries to O’Keefe’s legs. She said the Lexus which Read allegedly backed into O’Keefe is a bigger car, though, with a higher bumper than a sedan would have.

Scordi-Bello soon faced cross examination from defense attorney Elizabeth Little, who went further into O’Keefe’s lack of injuries below the neck.

Scordi-Bello agreed he did not have any significant injuries from the neck down.

“No significant injuries,” she said. “No.”

Little asked if Scordi-Bello would agree O’Keefe’s injuries are inconsistent with being struck by a 7,300 pound vehicle going 24 miles-per-hour.

“I would say it’s likely and unlikely at the same time,” she said.

On the topic of O’Keefe’s arm abrasions being consistent or inconsistent with being hit by a car, Scordi-Bello said she does not know and is not qualified to answer.

Little next displayed autopsy photos showing injuries to O’Keefe’s face.

“Are these injuries consistent with being punched,” she asked.

“That is a possibility,” Scordi-Bello said.

On the topic of open wounds to the back of O’Keefe’s head, Scordi-Bello agreed when Little said they could have been caused by being hit with a baseball bat or a barbell.

Scordi-Bello said she does not know what caused the scratches to O’Keefe’s arm.

 

[Forest_Wood]

It was all such a mess. I really felt no faith in the medical examiners for the state. Key word all worked for the state of MA. Like all the other parties, ATTY GEN MORRISSEY, etc. etc.. Trooper.

I wonder if either side has a new medical examiner this trial who looked at the case files?

 

[keek]

According to the testimony, I saw as posted on here she said “Cause of Death was Blunt Force Injury of head and Hypothermia.”

She needed to say back of head. That deep death causing bash. One of them said it would of caused J to become unconscious at that time.

 

[keek]

I wonder if either side has a new medical examiner this trial who looked at the case files?

I would really like that and not affiliated with MA state of, at this point, this time.

 

[Kyshoegal]

Hang on lol. I’m watching this now.

Also, not to keep at the issue the Dr. did say in trial 1 that the injuries to the face and head could have come from being punched: here is the record of that:
Assistant District Attorney Adam Lally asked Scordi-Bello if the injuries to O’Keefe were consistent with a pedestrian strike.

“These are not the classic injuries we see in a pedestrian crash, no,” Scordi-Bello said.

She said she did not find injuries to O’Keefe’s legs. She said the Lexus which Read allegedly backed into O’Keefe is a bigger car, though, with a higher bumper than a sedan would have.

Scordi-Bello soon faced cross examination from defense attorney Elizabeth Little, who went further into O’Keefe’s lack of injuries below the neck.

Scordi-Bello agreed he did not have any significant injuries from the neck down.

“No significant injuries,” she said. “No.”

Little asked if Scordi-Bello would agree O’Keefe’s injuries are inconsistent with being struck by a 7,300 pound vehicle going 24 miles-per-hour.

“I would say it’s likely and unlikely at the same time,” she said.

On the topic of O’Keefe’s arm abrasions being consistent or inconsistent with being hit by a car, Scordi-Bello said she does not know and is not qualified to answer.

Little next displayed autopsy photos showing injuries to O’Keefe’s face.

“Are these injuries consistent with being punched,” she asked.

“That is a possibility,” Scordi-Bello said.

On the topic of open wounds to the back of O’Keefe’s head, Scordi-Bello agreed when Little said they could have been caused by being hit with a baseball bat or a barbell.

Scordi-Bello said she does not know what caused the scratches to O’Keefe’s arm.

Full disclosure, as I said in the inital post I have been following this for about a whopping two weeks. I know nothing about the first trial except it was a mistrial. Of the injuries I’ve seen to the skull from a baseball bat. They’re normally palpable fractures what we call eggshell fractures or crush injuries. Not a singular linear fracture because the force is spread over a wider area. The only way a barbell left that type of fracture is if he hit the edge of it. Now again, I’m not a forensic pathologist I can only speak to what I have seen personally and in my experience. IMO he was not beaten. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t but from the pictures of his face, and the type of skull fracture it’s a no for me. I am very curious about the large hematoma to his upper arm above the scratches. It’s really not Discolored, but it’s definitely there.

 

[Kyshoegal]

I wonder if either side has a new medical examiner this trial who looked at the case files?

I would love to see an outside independent ME’s opinion

 

[Seni]

Full disclosure, as I said in the inital post I have been following this for about a whopping two weeks. I know nothing about the first trial except it was a mistrial. Of the injuries I’ve seen to the skull from a baseball bat. They’re normally palpable fractures what we call eggshell fractures or crush injuries. Not a singular linear fracture because the force is spread over a wider area. The only way a barbell left that type of fracture is if he hit the edge of it. Now again, I’m not a forensic pathologist I can only speak to what I have seen personally and in my experience. IMO he was not beaten. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t but from the pictures of his face, and the type of skull fracture it’s a no for me. I am very curious about the large hematoma to his upper arm above the scratches. It’s really not Discolored, but it’s definitely there.

Am confused. Which case are you mentioning?

 

[Luna20]

Look at the cats in the parking lot when they’re leaving the bar. It’s on video

Cats?? I only know of a dog in relation to the case.

 

[Kyshoegal]

So you disagree with the doctor who was used in this case as referenced above? That John had multiple injuries to his face.

I have not seen where she said he had multiple injuries to his face, only what you quoted. I asked what specific injuries he had to his face, no one has told me. I did not watch the first trial so I have seen nothing that says what specific injuries he had to his face. Her testimony that I did see doesn’t mention injuries to the face.please tell me specifically what the facial injuries to his face are

 

[Linda7NJ]

I wonder if Ingrid is her sister? She talked about having an older brother and younger sister but I've never known her sister to show up in court AFAIK.

Karen’s sister’s name is Elizabeth and she goes by Liz

IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Cats?? I only know of a dog in relation to the case.

LOL - I meant to type CARS -LOL

 

[ShadyLady]

I have not seen where she said he had multiple injuries to his face, only what you quoted. I asked what specific injuries he had to his face, no one has told me. I did not watch the first trial so I have seen nothing that says what specific injuries he had to his face. Her testimony that I did see doesn’t mention injuries to the face.please tell me specifically what the facial injuries to his face are

Kerry said there was a large knot....eggshell....over his right eye.

Oh and watching Jen Mc again and she said she walked into her sister's house without knocking because they leave the door open. Interesting when they have an aggressive dog. And she only went into the house after JOK had gone, and LE told her to tell her family.

 

[RatFace]

What were the injuries to his face? Other than the eyes? “Dr. Scordi-Bello: fractures were emanating from the back of the skull”. He could have easily hit his forehead on the car, the ground, the fire hydrant (I don’t think he did) but I believe the fractures towards the front of the skull could have been caused from blunt trauma to the back of the head because of the type of fracture they are. There was no clear bruising to the face other than the eyes. IMO he was not hit in face. But that’s just IMO as a nurse and working trauma for 15 years. I can tell you I have not seen everything. I don’t know everything and I don’t claim to. The amount of times I see someone come in that ER and I go wow that’s weird or that’s new. It’s still pretty frequent.

Yes, the injuries to his face were minor according to the ME - a couple scratches on his nose and a small laceration above the right eye. She describes the bruising around the eyes as being caused by the skull fracture on the back of his head. The ME does not say there is a golf ball sized knot above his right eye and the sketch doesn't show it. I wonder where that came from?