MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #21 Retrial

[Angelwatch]

No one knows what John's standing position was. The car interior light was on so it suggests the door had been open recently. John could have been putting his drink down on the ground while he checked his texts, and then tucking his phone away in his back pocket or bending to pick his drink up again if he'd put it down. Maybe he had Karen's glass to hold too. Too many unknowns, but distinct possibilities. I also think I remember the brother testifying he didn't see John but that he wasn't looking for him, because he was focused on the driver and it was only a quick moment or so as they drove past. On a dark night driving past a vehicle with an interior light on and a driver as a point of focus, it would be strange, IMO, to be peering into the darkness beyond the car without a reason.

MOO

I think it would be super helpful if they had taken the jurors to the house at night instead of the day. I've seen and heard mention that a body would be impossible to miss. Also that the yard is smaller than the photos appear.

Does anyone know if the juror who came forward mentioned the actual scene and whether they believed a body on the ground could be missed by so many people walking to the house and driving by? I never watched his interview.

 

[Curiousobserver]

I appreciate your post and I agree she has been overcharged. My one question is how do you explain the brothers testimony that came to pick his sister up and was parked behind KR? He testified that he did not see JOK outside or inside the suv, only the driver. That’s a hard one for me to get past. Where was JOK at this time?

I would agree with everyone on this board that there are parts of this case that are not easily explained, that Proctor is a huge jerk, that parts of the investigation were done with tunnel vision and were sloppy.

However none of those things negates the very solid evidence that she accidently hit him with her car. The police's theory is testable and everywhere where you test it the evidence supports it. Karen's theory is mostly not testable, but where it is, none of the evidence supports it.

The brother not seeing anyone in the car is completely irrelevant to the case. It's a defense strategy to muddy the waters by planting confusion. It doesn't negate any of the direct evidence. I don't know why he didn't see anybody and I don't need to know because him not seeing John wouldn't have caused dog DNA to disappear, tail light pieces to appear in the street or on his clothing, or John's DNA to show up on her car. Using the same erroneous logic, you could argue this is powerful evidence Karen is lying. Why didn't the brother see John entering the house, walking toward the house, or walking in the driveway. This should have been what was happening when Karen's car sat empty in front of the house right? But perhaps he was already in the house... see how your brain completes the next part of the story without evidence?

 

[Forest_Wood]

No one knows what John's standing position was. The car interior light was on so it suggests the door had been open recently. John could have been putting his drink down on the ground while he checked his texts, and then tucking his phone away in his back pocket or bending to pick his drink up again if he'd put it down. Maybe he had Karen's glass to hold too. Too many unknowns, but distinct possibilities. I also think I remember the brother testifying he didn't see John but that he wasn't looking for him, because he was focused on the driver and it was only a quick moment or so as they drove past. On a dark night driving past a vehicle with an interior light on and a driver as a point of focus, it would be strange, IMO, to be peering into the darkness beyond the car without a reason.

MOO

It wasn't just the brother Ryan Nagel who only saw the female in the driver's seat. It was Ryan's girlfriend also and I can't recall what their driver saw. He said he wasn't watching the SUV very closely because he was watching the road. As well, it wasn't them noticing just as they were driving away. They each testified they saw the female at the wheel the entire time they were parked behind her SUV (up to 5 minutes). Karen might have had the interior light on to read or write her texts better. It doesn't mean the door was open or recently opened.
MOO

 

[Seattle1]

dbm

 

[Linda7NJ]

dbm

The first trial is over.

Focus on this one. It’s the only one that matters.
It’s a new day and a new prosecutor.

 

[Seattle1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915228519916855450

 

[minazoe]

it's easy to see how she was drunk and lost her temper, then went into confusion and denial.
don't drink and get behind the wheel. I think she had a flight or fight response and took off..then I think she went into mental gymnastics and disbelief. all the phone calls in the wee hours..but I disagree she was over charged...If she hit him and took off it was gross negligent homicide. she sped off and offered no help to the victim. If she hit him I don't believe she didn't feel it in the car.
it would have made a sound..there would have been sound. she wasn't completely incapacitated because she drove and made calls and was up all night.

she doesn't want to be guilty, she says she isn't..but I get this vibe about her..like when John says he can't go right back to being lovey dovey...is she an abuser? it makes me wonder..

just thoughts about Karen and her relationship probs. mOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

it's easy to see how she was drunk and lost her temper, then went into confusion and denial.
don't drink and get behind the wheel. I think she had a flight or fight response and took off..then I think she went into mental gymnastics and disbelief. all the phone calls in the wee hours..but I disagree she was over charged...If she hit him and took off it was gross negligent homicide. she sped off and offered no help to the victim. If she hit him I don't believe she didn't feel it in the car.
it would have made a sound..there would have been sound. she wasn't completely incapacitated because she drove and made calls and was up all night.

she doesn't want to be guilty, she says she isn't..but I get this vibe about her..like when John says he can't go right back to being lovey dovey...is she an abuser? it makes me wonder..

just thoughts about Karen and her relationship probs. mOO

Those texts - I find her to be incredibly manipulative.
IMO

 

[KSwizzle]

Everybody was drunk driving that night, they all should have been charged Karen included moo

 

[Wishbone]

To further the fantasy anyone who owns a dog or cat will tell you that is impossible to enter the home of a pet owner and not get some of the pets hair on you, it is even less likely you can avoid getting canine Hair and DNA on you if you are bitten and mauled by the animal and roll around on the floor after getting punched out.

The absence of canine DNA on JO makes it a virtual certainty that he never set foot in that house.

Molecular characterization of the canine mitochondrial DNA control region for forensic applications - PubMed

The Revolution of Animal Genomics in Forensic Sciences - PMC

To me the most telling piece of "evidence" is that the defense has never sent his shirt for their own Canine DNA testing or asked to have a bite impression done of the dog to compare to the images. Imagine if they had and the defense found Chloe's DNA on that shirt or the teeth lined up perfectly... case closed its a conspiracy.

• During cross-examination Yannetti, asks about the chain of custody for the evidence Vallier examined. She says O’Keefe’s clothing was delivered to her on March 14 2022 (6 weeks after JO’s death)
• Yannetti asks: “You do not know what Micheal Proctor did or did not do with the t-shirt....? Vallier responds: “I do not.

Video, updates: MSP sergeant who investigated O’Keefe’s death takes stand in Karen Read murder trial

After a day off, one of the state police detectives who supervised the investigation into the death of John O’Keefe took the stand in the Karen Read murder trial.

www.boston25news.com

 

[minazoe]

Those texts - I find her to be incredibly manipulative.
IMO

yes, and she also looks like a little girl..so petite.. mOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Those texts - I find her to be incredibly manipulative.
IMO

Same with JOKs texts. Very manipulative.

 

[Tortoise]

It wasn't just the brother Ryan Nagel who only saw the female in the driver's seat. It was Ryan's girlfriend also and I can't recall what their driver saw. He said he wasn't watching the SUV very closely because he was watching the road. As well, it wasn't them noticing just as they were driving away. They each testified they saw the female at the wheel the entire time they were parked behind her SUV (up to 5 minutes). Karen might have had the interior light on to read or write her texts better. It doesn't mean the door was open or recently opened.
MOO

I think the Lexus had moved further away towards the flagpole by the time they left, and there is no evidence to say they were watching KR while they were parked behind, talking to his sister. I think the most they were asked was if they saw KR alone as they drove past, or saw John exiting the vehicle at any point, which they must have missed, before they drove away. I suspect they were focused on his sister most of the time, while they were engaged in conversation. MOO

 

[jepop]

Be in her shoes mentally and emotionally with her person she was in a relationship long time, though going through hard and emotional times and found not alive. Chaos and terror.

The jury will not necessarily be blind to the circumstances. KR was very distraught at the scene. She is traumatised. She is in shock. She is desperate to know what is happening with John. Not long before she was attempting to resuscitate her gravely injured partner. IOWs KR was behaving like a human being.Jmo

Maybe Brennan is taking a risk he doesn't fully realise introducing some of this stuff, expecting the jury to rush to judgement. Idk, but hubris could see him reap some unexpected consequences. We'll see I guess. I'm looking forward to the real evidence whenever the CW gets around to it. Jmo

 

[Deleted member 246707]

To further the fantasy anyone who owns a dog or cat will tell you that is impossible to enter the home of a pet owner and not get some of the pets hair on you, it is even less likely you can avoid getting canine Hair and DNA on you if you are bitten and mauled by the animal and roll around on the floor after getting punched out.

The absence of canine DNA on JO makes it a virtual certainty that he never set foot in that house.

Molecular characterization of the canine mitochondrial DNA control region for forensic applications - PubMed

The Revolution of Animal Genomics in Forensic Sciences - PMC

To me the most telling piece of "evidence" is that the defense has never sent his shirt for their own Canine DNA testing or asked to have a bite impression done of the dog to compare to the images. Imagine if they had and the defense found Chloe's DNA on that shirt or the teeth lined up perfectly... case closed its a conspiracy.

We haven't heard the testimony, yet - but it sounds like the phone temperature readings are going to make it very hard for the defense to paint a picture of JO ever entering the house.

I'm going to guess we're going to see the temperature of the phone only dropping, coinciding with the end of movement... and then only rising, again, around 6:10 am or whenever KR put it in her pocket.

But, it's TBD.

 

[Wishbone]

It did come from KR herself, she said it to the ambulance personnel. As confirmed in testimony and question asked by AJ.

For me to believe it, I want to hear it come from KR's own mouth. There has been more lying or "confused" witnesses on the stand than I comfortable with. JMOO

 

[jepop]

KR could pass any info she wanted to TB. It's her trial to talk about if she wants to share. What I think the cw is intimating is that she encouraged him to stalk and harass some of mccabes or alberts or the like.JMOO

Which is a false, baseless accusation.

 

[arielilane]

@pennylikeacoin


Today we end week 1 of Karen Read’s retrial with a bit of testimony before the jury visits 34 Fairview Road.This second trial is already looking quite different than the first. Stream today’s testimony live on @wbz
@CBSNews: https://cbsnews.com/boston/live/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1915746974629876044

 

[arielilane]

Ms. Rex asking the hard question.

Timestamp: 1:35

Reporter Kristina Rex@wbz: You previously said “come at me” "Why dont you want that clip played?"

 

[jepop]

I too always had the impression that KerR was credible, caring and kind. I didn't notice the defense treated her in a negative manner. They pointed out discrepancies in what she had already testified to. How is that a poor way of treating her?

RBBM. It wasn't. Kerry Roberts wasn't treated poorly by Jackson. Jackson is an excellent attorney and he is doing his job. He treated her firmly, he did not raise his voice, he did not bully or abuse her. Jmo