MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #23 Retrial

[rescuemom]

He knew the women bc of the kids - play dates, carpools, etc. The men ? Not so much. Plus he was an eligible attractive bachelor that the women all wanted to fix their single friend up with or something.
JMO

and maybe he wasn't a crooked cop

 

[rescuemom]

Well, she wasn't seeing any vehicle at all at 12.45am Imo. She made that up deliberately to fit with the cw's timeline prior to trial X 1 and to make her text messages to John during that time frame explicable ( the Lexus was still there so I continued to text). I believe it was a calculated fabrication. Jmo

Is that the same thing as a lie

 

[geevee]

Exactly how I see it as well, he was the instigator to what went down.

Same here, and the fact that JMc was trying to get Karen to ride with her and Matt to the Albert's, I think she also knew why Higgins wanted John to come to the house. I think JMc was expecting to see a blow up between the three and wanted a front row seat to the festivities.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Not meaning to argue in any way .. this is just how my mind is thinking. Why would someone be looking on the ground? Why would she think he would be walking home in a snow storm and she would find him laying along the road instead of thinking that he is probably passed out on someones couch because he didn't have a ride home? So are we to believe that out of all the yards they passed on the way to Fairview that there were no other uneven spots that looked out of place to her? It just seems to me like she knew exactly where she would find him.

Excellent questions! I don't have any answers other than what she has spoken about herself. She had already admitted to thinking he may have gotten hit by a plow. Why might she have thought that first thing in the morning? Maybe he got mad at her for not wanting to go inside with him and maybe he exited the SUV, and drunkenly said he would walk home or walk to one of his old girlfriend's homes and told her not to wait for him? Maybe that was on her mind in the morning when she thought he was drunk and got hit by a plow? Maybe she actually saw a plow on the road somewhere and she worried that because she had left him at the party, he might get hit if he tried to walk somewhere. Maybe she was looking for the last place she saw him around that yard? There are many scenarios I can think about that might have occurred that night, that it's hard for me to distinguish the truth. So I want to hear from proper experts about how her car actually hit him, causing the head injury and the arm injuries, to be convinced that she is guilty of hitting him with her SUV. If it cannot be proven BARD he was hit by her SUV, then the jury must come back with a NG verdict.
MOO

 

[HarmonyE.]

When I saw that, from a man with no axe to grind, but a town employee, not affiliated with CPD, It was very disturbing and telling. IMO

And I think he was totally annoyed about it.

 

[rebelchild]

She was scanning the area; she's the one who dropped him at 34. It's unlikely he was fully covered by snow given the conditions at the time (especially if he'd been placed there after Lucky the plow guy went by). I don't find it particularly remarkable and suspect Kerry would have seen him nearly as quickly if she hadn't been driving.

Jen wouldn't have wanted him found too quickly. IMO.

I will agree on one thing .. she is the one that dropped him at 34. She also happens to be the one that called Kerry and said John was dead .. and kept asking "did I hit him", "could I have hit him", "did he get hit by a snowplow" .. and showed the girls her broken taillight. And after all that crazy talk, somehow Kerry and Jen still thought they would find John camped out on a couch somewhere.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Start about 12:30.

Not the disc he gave them. Then off to sidebar.

I remember this guy now from his appearance.
ETA: I wonder why this didn't get more traction during T1. The ADA Lally hands him a completely different CD or DVD of the recording he gave LE, and he states it's not the same as the one he handed over. And nothing more said about this?

 

[HarmonyE.]

I will agree on one thing .. she is the one that dropped him at 34. She also happens to be the one that called Kerry and said John was dead .. and kept asking "did I hit him", "could I have hit him", "did he get hit by a snowplow" .. and showed the girls her broken taillight. And after all that crazy talk, somehow Kerry and Jen still thought they would find John camped out on a couch somewhere.

She probably did wonder if she might have hit him unknowingly in the heat of it all. But there's absolutely no evidence on John's body that he was struck by a vehicle.

I don't think Jen thought John would be found on someone's couch.

 

[keek]

And I think he was totally annoyed about it.

Yes, because he is a regular guy, doing his job and his integrity and honesty was questioned. He knew he was being played by someone and this was a serious situation. IMO

 

[angelainwi]

She probably did wonder if she might have hit him unknowingly in the heat of it all. But there's absolutely no evidence on John's body that he was struck by a vehicle.

I don't think Jen thought John would be found on someone's couch.

maybe an old lover's bed, but not someone's couch

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I get what you're saying but then what do you think happened?

Do you believe John went into the house, a fight occured, they moved him outside etc? Or was it an accident and they covered it up?

This is what I can't work out. And again to make it clear, I do not believe Karen was involved. Whiffin's testimony with John's phone had me questioning whether John had dropped it on his way into the house but then his testimony, imo, was a bit everywhere. jmo.

Either scenario works for me. Intentional? I doubt it because would anything have happened had Karen gone in with him like they expected? I’m not sure why Jen wanted her to go with her.

As much as I dislike all of that gang, I’m leaning towards accident. In the house, a punch or two to the face, maybe a retaliatory punch by John, knockout punch makes him fall back and he hits his head and bleeds all over. They dragged him out and left him to die.

Or maybe one of them started fighting with him and someone else hit him too because they defended their friend or relative. One punches his face, the other hits him from behind. Chloe got involved either way and scratched/bit him. Meanwhile Karen is getting more and more pissed because she thought he was ghosting her. I wonder what would have happened if she had gone in the house.

 

[SteveS]

Well, she wasn't seeing any vehicle at all at 12.45am Imo. She made that up deliberately to fit with the cw's timeline prior to trial X 1 and to make her text messages to John during that time frame explicable ( the Lexus was still there so I continued to text). I believe it was a calculated fabrication. Jmo

This reminder of the truth is spot on. Thank you thank you to you and MerlinFalcon for spotlighting that again.

Seeing this continue to play out as it has, the pattern of lying to try to blame this on KR, with JMc playing a lead role, becomes clearer and clearer. Originally they needed to put KR on the scene at a time that fit LE's original timeline that said she hit him at 12:45-ish. Up steps JMc who swears she saw KR's car at 12:45, apparently just before JOK supposedly got out and got hit, and she's super-sure of what she saw and the time.

But before T1, LE had to abandon that set of "facts" once KR was found to have a rock-solid alibi at 12:45. So LE changes the time in their accusation, and JMc alters her testimony and at trial adds a claim that KR confessed she hit JOK -- something she never said in 227 pages of GJ testimony.

But in T2 the time frames have again shifted, and they also need stronger evidence, so now she testifies with something altered again, now with more claims of "I hit him" and denying things she said before UNDER OATH, even denying texts/calls she made that are bad for LE case, even though there is objective proof she made them.

She's their witness who will say whatever they think is necessary, and change it as needed. It's happened over and over. She's clearly a Liar for Hire.

Don't believe a word she says. She'll lie to anyone, anytime, anywhere (see JMc, FBI). But be suspicious of what she ISN'T saying, and who she's trying to protect, because that's obviously where the truth lies.

 

[Moonstrawbs]

Either scenario works for me. Intentional? I doubt it because would anything have happened had Karen gone in with him like they expected? I’m not sure why Jen wanted her to go with her.

As much as I dislike all of that gang, I’m leaning towards accident. In the house, a punch or two to the face, maybe a retaliatory punch by John, knockout punch makes him fall back and he hits his head and bleeds all over. They dragged him out and left him to die.

Or maybe one of them started fighting with him and someone else hit him too because they defended their friend or relative. One punches his face, the other hits him from behind. Chloe got involved either way and scratched/bit him. Meanwhile Karen is getting more and more pissed because she thought he was ghosting her. I wonder what would have happened if she had gone in the house.

I'm edging more towards accident and then cover up. For me it makes the most sense at this moment. Either way, inexcusable. Jmo.

 

[keek]

This reminder of the truth is spot on. Thank you thank you to you and MerlinFalcon for spotlighting that again.

Seeing this continue to play out as it has, the pattern of lying to try to blame this on KR, with KMc playing a lead role, becomes clearer and clearer. Originally they needed to put KR on the scene at a time that fit LE's original timeline that said she hit him at 12:45-ish. Up steps KM who swears she saw KR's car at 12:45, apparently just before JOK supposedly got out and got hit, and she's super-sure of what she saw and the time.

But before T1, LE had to abandon that set of "facts" once KR was found to have a rock-solid alibi at 12:45. So LE changes the time in their accusation, and KM alters her testimony and at trial adds a claim that KR confessed she hit JOK -- something she never said in 227 pages of GJ testimony.

But in T2 the time frames have again shifted, and they also need stronger evidence, so now she testifies with something altered again, now with more claims of "I hit him" and denying things she said before UNDER OATH, even denying texts/calls she made that are bad for LE case, even though there is objective proof she made them.

She's their witness who will say whatever they think is necessary, and change it as needed. It's happened over and over. She's clearly a Liar for Hire.

Don't believe a word she says. She'll lie to anyone, anytime, anywhere (see JMc, FBI). But be suspicious of what she ISN'T saying, and who she's trying to protect, because that's obviously where the truth lies.

Liar for hire. Perfect. That she surely is. Lieing to the FEDS and putting them off, bold. They know she did now and most likely of course, then. Hope big eyes on JMc. IMO

 

[angelainwi]

This reminder of the truth is spot on. Thank you thank you to you and MerlinFalcon for spotlighting that again.

Seeing this continue to play out as it has, the pattern of lying to try to blame this on KR, with KMc playing a lead role, becomes clearer and clearer. Originally they needed to put KR on the scene at a time that fit LE's original timeline that said she hit him at 12:45-ish. Up steps KM who swears she saw KR's car at 12:45, apparently just before JOK supposedly got out and got hit, and she's super-sure of what she saw and the time.

But before T1, LE had to abandon that set of "facts" once KR was found to have a rock-solid alibi at 12:45. So LE changes the time in their accusation, and KM alters her testimony and at trial adds a claim that KR confessed she hit JOK -- something she never said in 227 pages of GJ testimony.

But in T2 the time frames have again shifted, and they also need stronger evidence, so now she testifies with something altered again, now with more claims of "I hit him" and denying things she said before UNDER OATH, even denying texts/calls she made that are bad for LE case, even though there is objective proof she made them.

She's their witness who will say whatever they think is necessary, and change it as needed. It's happened over and over. She's clearly a Liar for Hire.

Don't believe a word she says. She'll lie to anyone, anytime, anywhere (see JMc, FBI). But be suspicious of what she ISN'T saying, and who she's trying to protect, because that's obviously where the truth lies.

Is KM supposed to be JM? Or who is KM? I am so confused...

 

[SteveS]

Is KM supposed to be JM? Or who is KM? I am so confused...

Yes. Corrected. Having issues (user error, no doubt!!)

 

[angelainwi]

DBM

 

[SteveS]

As we go through the trial's testimony again, it's interesting to see how entrenched some here are with their mindless recitation and re-recitation of points that have been long refuted way way way BARD, and embracing liars with shady shifting weasel-mouthed answers on the stand (who can't just give a simple answer because they are clearly lying their rear off).

I keep waiting for any so-called "smoking gun" but again there's not one. It's just shady "witnesses" (that didn't really see anything definitive, frankly) and over-hyped "experts" whose testimony doesn't really prove anything.

I am hopeful the jury will see through the nonsense. Maybe this time ARCCA's definitive testing proving that JOK didn't even get hit by a vehicle will sink in. Sure hope so.

 

[Luna20]

I saw that video and J's car 'rock a bit as she backed into it. That is factual video at least. IMO

Why haven’t they mentioned this yet? Or maybe they have and I’ve missed it. It settles the cause of the broken light.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Something I question about the idea that if KR knew or thought she was guilty hitting JOK with her car why would she ask JMc to search “how long to die from hypothermia”. According to an EMT and Kerry Roberts testimonies in trial one JOK had blood and vomit flowing down the front of his clothes, a blood head wound and at least one swollen eye. He was unresponsive and clearly wounded. If KR thought she hit JOK with her car would she really think it would be the hypothermia that would likely kill him considering the trauma he possible suffered after being struck by a car and the subsequent wounds, lacerations, blood loss, loss of consciousness and unresponsiveness and build up of vomit potentially blocking or asphyxiating the airways it caused?

Did Kerry Roberts ever think it was weird that JMc never went inside the house to ask her sister, BIL or nephew for more help since she herself was busy trying to focus on and administer First Aid or CPR alone and could use more support, especially from other first responders like NA and BA who would be the most equipped or trained to help her save JOK?