MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #24 Retrial

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  • #441
A question I have had for ages: is it normal in the US or Boston or Canton to take glasses home from bars?
That is a great question, and then why take with you when you get out of the car. Was he concerned that the Albert's had no glasses? If he hadn't finished, so took it with him to finish, surely he would have finished in the car. Why not leave it in the car?
I didn't see the image, but I presume he had it in his hands when he left, but surely it gets put down on the drive.
In Christopher Albert's testimony in the first trial when JOK & KR entered the bar KR had a tapered glass under her jacket and when she took it out it had a clear liquid and lime slice in it.
He assumed it was vodka yet on cross had to admit it could have been water and that he saw nothing out of the ordinary with KR's behavior that night.
Was this the broken glass found at the scene with JOK's body?

imo
 
  • #442
In the voicemails from the early morning hours of Jan. 29, Read accused O’Keefe of infidelity, expressed hate for him, and said his children are alone.


Between 12:33 a.m. and 6:03 a.m., Read called O’Keefe 53 times and left eight voicemails. None of Read’s calls were answered.

Voicemail #1 (12:37 a.m.)

“John! I (expletive) hate you!”
‘I [expletive] hate you’: Karen Read voicemails recovered from John O’Keefe’s phone played in court
1746581563139.webp




 
  • #443
That is a great question, and then why take with you when you get out of the car. Was he concerned that the Albert's had no glasses? If he hadn't finished, so took it with him to finish, surely he would have finished in the car. Why not leave it in the car?
I didn't see the image, but I presume he had it in his hands when he left, but surely it gets put down on the drive.

I've worked in restaurants and bars for a good portion of my life and yes, people leave with drink glasses all the time. 1st of all no one wants to leave any part of their $12-15 -20 drink on the table when the party moves on to another place. 2nd if the place is rockin the bouncer's are usually more concerned with the people coming into the bar than out of the bar. On slower nights they may stop you but on busy nights it's easier to walk out with a glass. 3rd people don't think they're going to get pulled over as it always happens to the other guy and they are perfectly fine to drive!
 
  • #444
I've worked in restaurants and bars for a good portion of my life and yes, people leave with drink glasses all the time. 1st of all no one wants to leave any part of their $12-15 -20 drink on the table when the party moves on to another place. 2nd if the place is rockin the bouncer's are usually more concerned with the people coming into the bar than out of the bar. On slower nights they may stop you but on busy nights it's easier to walk out with a glass. 3rd people don't think they're going to get pulled over as it always happens to the other guy and they are perfectly fine to drive!
Plus, there is always a group or person that socially out, can get away with things others wouldn't even think of. Even if only in their mind. Otherwise, the Albert/McCabe crew lived as though they owned the town, untouchable. We're seeing that whole mindset in action from the time it was decided to put JOK out on the lawn by the street, plow hit him. This was all before KR came looking along the roads for him, walked right into it. IMO
 
  • #445
Plus, there is always a group or person that socially out, can get away with things others wouldn't even think of. Even if only in their mind. Otherwise, the Albert/McCabe crew lived as though they owned the town, untouchable. We're seeing that whole mindset in action from the time it was decided to put JOK out on the lawn by the street, plow hit him. This was all before KR came looking along the roads for him, walked right into it. IMO
This mindset also comes from being true 'townies', grew up there, stayed there, occupation is there. Sports parents, JMc was a coach, the other Alberts had coached kids teams. I mean, untouchable or you just kept it to yourself and trusted friends etc about how you really thought of them when not so cool stories about them or were witnessed came to be. Like this. IMO.
 
  • #446
It is my belief that AJ and his team took this case because they believe in KRs innocence. It is simple as that. When I was watching a recent episode of the LYK, the guest attorney was saying that AJ and is crew didn't have to take on the 3rd party suspect, they could have kept it simple and just argued for KR not hitting JO with her car. But I'm going to tell you that for AJ and his crew, they want the real killers to be brought to justice. This is justice at its best. I know justice means a great deal for those who fight for it every day. I just watched an episode on Netflix called Homicide LA where they young Alan Jackson was the lead prosecuter against the infamous and billionaire Phil Spector. It was a hung jury the first trial and a reporter asked him if he was going to try it again. He said I will try it has many times as I have to for justice to be served. In all these years that have passed, we still feel you AJ. As far as the KR trial, AJ is just getting started. He will deliver the evidence to the jury.
 
  • #447
It is my belief that AJ and his team took this case because they believe in KRs innocence. It is simple as that. When I was watching a recent episode of the LYK, the guest attorney was saying that AJ and is crew didn't have to take on the 3rd party suspect, they could have kept it simple and just argued for KR not hitting JO with her car. But I'm going to tell you that for AJ and his crew, they want the real killers to be brought to justice. This is justice at its best. I know justice means a great deal for those who fight for it every day. I just watched an episode on Netflix called Homicide LA where they young Alan Jackson was the lead prosecuter against the infamous and billionaire Phil Spector. It was a hung jury the first trial and a reporter asked him if he was going to try it again. He said I will try it has many times as I have to for justice to be served. In all these years that have passed, we still feel you AJ. As far as the KR trial, AJ is just getting started. He will deliver the evidence to the jury.
OMG, I've watched Homicide a lot, both series, and I had no idea it was the same guy. (In my defense Alan Jackson is a common kind of name for a white guy in a western country.) Maybe I would have recognised him if I was watching this trial, but I'm not, I'm just following the thread.

MOO
 
  • #448
So, watching the cross, Meteorologist Robert Gilman testified, if I understood his arithmetic, there was 8/10 of an inch up until 01:00 (enough to track a cat) then a total of 1.7 inches up until 04:00am. Then by 06:00 it was 3.9 inches total. Another 8.6 inches fell after John's body was found and up until noon on Jan 29 for a total of 12.5 inches. It was a lot of snow in the end. Would 3.9 inches be enough to cover a 6 ft man's body total?
Edited for clarity
 
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  • #449
It is my belief that AJ and his team took this case because they believe in KRs innocence. It is simple as that. When I was watching a recent episode of the LYK, the guest attorney was saying that AJ and is crew didn't have to take on the 3rd party suspect, they could have kept it simple and just argued for KR not hitting JO with her car. But I'm going to tell you that for AJ and his crew, they want the real killers to be brought to justice. This is justice at its best. I know justice means a great deal for those who fight for it every day. I just watched an episode on Netflix called Homicide LA where they young Alan Jackson was the lead prosecuter against the infamous and billionaire Phil Spector. It was a hung jury the first trial and a reporter asked him if he was going to try it again. He said I will try it has many times as I have to for justice to be served. In all these years that have passed, we still feel you AJ. As far as the KR trial, AJ is just getting started. He will deliver the evidence to the jury.

AJ is great. However It is tough when you have a judge who does not appear to be impartial, in my opinion. And that is putting it mildly. My opinion only.
 
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  • #450
So, watching the cross, Meteorologist Robert Gilman testified, if I understood his arithmetic, there was a total of 1.7 inches up until 04:00am. Then by 06:00 it was 3.9 inches total. Then 8.6 inches fell after John's death up until for a total of 12.5 inches by noon on Jan 29. It was a lot of snow in the end. Would 3.9 inches be enough to cover a 6 ft man's body total?
You would still see a 6 foot long lump. Also, there was likely wind which could have uncovered the snow on him. As well, was the snow more dry or wet? If it’s wet, less would blow. It sounds like it was way below freezing so the snow likely was more dry and blowing around.
 
  • #451
So, watching the cross, Meteorologist Robert Gilman testified, if I understood his arithmetic, there was a total of 1.7 inches up until 04:00am. Then by 06:00 it was 3.9 inches total. Then 8.6 inches fell after John's death up until for a total of 12.5 inches by noon on Jan 29. It was a lot of snow in the end. Would 3.9 inches be enough to cover a 6 ft man's body total?
I don't see how totally at all, plus it was blowing snow, windy. I always thought that was odd for them to say, covered length of a bump or so, with snow. He was cold at that time, so may have accumulated in place, but I didn't see him for myself, so we just hear JMc, Kerry and I believe Karen but not sure if she ever said, totally covered up in snow. She may have in her interviews aside from court.
 
  • #452
So, watching the cross, Meteorologist Robert Gilman testified, if I understood his arithmetic, there was a total of 1.7 inches up until 04:00am. Then by 06:00 it was 3.9 inches total. Then 8.6 inches fell after John's death up until for a total of 12.5 inches by noon on Jan 29. It was a lot of snow in the end. Would 3.9 inches be enough to cover a 6 ft man's body total?
If the snow was fluffy, a leaf blower would help cover it, if needed. moo
 
  • #453
In the voicemails from the early morning hours of Jan. 29, Read accused O’Keefe of infidelity, expressed hate for him, and said his children are alone.


Between 12:33 a.m. and 6:03 a.m., Read called O’Keefe 53 times and left eight voicemails. None of Read’s calls were answered.

Voicemail #1 (12:37 a.m.)

“John! I (expletive) hate you!”
‘I [expletive] hate you’: Karen Read voicemails recovered from John O’Keefe’s phone played in court
View attachment 584170





In Christopher Albert's testimony in the first trial when JOK & KR entered the bar KR had a tapered glass under her jacket and when she took it out it had a clear liquid and lime slice in it.
He assumed it was vodka yet on cross had to admit it could have been water and that he saw nothing out of the ordinary with KR's behavior that night.
Was this the broken glass found at the scene with JOK's body?

imo
If it was KR glass taking it from the bar makes sense but then why take it from the car, if it was hers it would surely stay in the car with her.
Since we don't have a precise location of JOK, I presume we don't know precisely where the glass was in comparison to JOK.
As JOK phone appears to have been loose as it was found under him.
So JOK appears to have had a glass and a phone in his hands.
 
  • #454
So, watching the cross, Meteorologist Robert Gilman testified, if I understood his arithmetic, there was a total of 1.7 inches up until 04:00am. Then by 06:00 it was 3.9 inches total. Then 8.6 inches fell after John's death up until noon on Jan 29 for a total of 12.5 inches. It was a lot of snow in the end. Would 3.9 inches be enough to cover a 6 ft man's body total?
Haha. I caught that too. Hardly enough to make a snow angel.
 
  • #455
If it was KR glass taking it from the bar makes sense but then why take it from the car, if it was hers it would surely stay in the car with her.
Since we don't have a precise location of JOK, I presume we don't know precisely where the glass was in comparison to JOK.
As JOK phone appears to have been loose as it was found under him.
So JOK appears to have had a glass and a phone in his hands.
I was just throwing into the mix another glass, one that was spoken about by CA in the last trials testimony.
I have no idea how JOK ended up where he did and with which glass.
 
  • #456
To me, those voicemails that Karen Read sent to JOK after 12:36 show she could not have known John was dying or dead. She's furious because nobody knew where he was, which I wonder if she may have meant that Kaley had not heard from him since she was at home when Karen got there. Her voicemails sound desperate. He had not come back until 03:00 in the morning while they were on vacation at NYE and left her with the kids. And here she was 2 months later, thinking he was using her as a babysitter once again and that he was messing around with someone else. Just like at NY. Sounds like she was having an anxiety attack in the first few calls and then she calmed down somewhat. I still don't understand how they came up with the 2nd Degree Murder charge here. If they can't prove the car hit him, it has to come back with a NG verdict. Definitely she should be found guilty of a DUI at minimum, although the vehicle strike needs to be absolutely proven based on the other charges.
MOO
 
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  • #457
If it was KR glass taking it from the bar makes sense but then why take it from the car, if it was hers it would surely stay in the car with her.
Since we don't have a precise location of JOK, I presume we don't know precisely where the glass was in comparison to JOK.
As JOK phone appears to have been loose as it was found under him.
So JOK appears to have had a glass and a phone in his hands.
If he had 2 glasses and a phone he may have dropped and broken one of the glasses on the road when he left the car.
 
  • #458
🫨🫨🫨🫨🫨

Alan Jackson resumes his cross of now retired Canton Police Lt. Paul Gallagher:

AJ: You did not see a single piece of bright red plastic taillight material either, did you?
PG: No, sir. Not in that area.
AJ: As a matter of fact. You didn't see 46 pieces of tail light material, either clear or bright red plastic in any part of the area that you searched?
PG: No, the only thing we discovered was the blood sampling and the glass. 🫨

There is no way he didn't see the tail light but they found it hours later. It wasn't there . Bam!!!
 
  • #459
When is the CW saying the incident occurred?
In first trail based on Jen Mccabe testimony of seeing the car at 12:45 they used that as time. Which can be seen from the fact that the blood alcohol expert used 12:45 still in testimony in this case. However if I give Jen the benefit f the doubt, I can say that 1st proceedings siting was an rough estimate.
From the testimony so far it appears to be 12:32, and the KR Wifi link @ 12:36 provides and need to travel back to JOK puts a ceiling on when it can occur, but if they have procsecution experts saying 12:45 as the baseline, it makes it sound odd.
 
  • #460
If it was KR glass taking it from the bar makes sense but then why take it from the car, if it was hers it would surely stay in the car with her.
Since we don't have a precise location of JOK, I presume we don't know precisely where the glass was in comparison to JOK.
As JOK phone appears to have been loose as it was found under him.
So JOK appears to have had a glass and a phone in his hands.
A glass, maybe two?, a cellphone, drunk, no coat, possibly 8-10 ft from the curb with blunt force to the back of his head that some said was a round shape, laying on his back (possibly) with cellphone underneath him. Did he fall backwards onto something (the ground would never do that damage), was there something on that lawn that could have incapacitated him (like that rock that was displayed) and someone found him and moved it? Why not the fire hydrant? How did he get onto the lawn!
MOO
 
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