MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #25 Retrial

[Izzylizzy]

@ 38:15 Peter goes into Brian Higgins, 1st trial vs this trial and how AJ made BH look after questioning YB.
Should the CW call BH again to testify and if not should the defense call BH?

There's a lot for the jury to ponder on BH's actions that night with his texting KR while they all were at Waterfalls bar, she didn't respond, BH texting JOK from AB's house asking if he was coming there and the 2+ am phone call BH made to BA from the police station.
IMO

38:15, stay with it.

 

[keek]

And did you catch his excuse for using the like emoji? He stated he was directing traffic and checked his messages quickly, and liked the comment to indicate he had read the thread, not because he was liking the comments. His story is unbelievable, given his attitude and testimony on the stand about Proctor conducted the investigation with integrity and honor. IMO Bukhenic is as bad as Proctor in conduct. I doubt he would have missed those 5 vacation days either, likely banked overtime at time and a half where he worked 3 days but got paid for 5 days, a total of maybe $1500 out of his pocket. A slap in the wrist !
MOO

He is as bad as p, hence why p felt no problem in sharing KR texts, photo's if found. Clearly all been done before, these kind of things on duty regarding victims, potential crim's, together and or with the big OK sign, oh I mean 'like'. IMO

 

[jepop]

Guarino is also the guy who testified that he was able to use phone data to track JOKs steps from the bar to Karen’s car very precisely but then went on about how unreliable that same data is when it showed JOK taking many more steps than would have been possible if he had gotten hit by Karen after exiting her car. He is so shady.

Shady yes.

 

[rescuemom]

It’s an awful look for the MSP and I can’t believe that nobody considered that when they decided to retry the case. The CW should forfeit the case now just to stop the bleeding. I’m local and was probably neutral on the MSP and local LE before this trial. Now, Im solidly in the negative column.

I for one would love to hear more from a local. The area is more than just these 20 or so people we know about. It seems that the area has been through this with LE before. At the same time people are trying to raise families or own businesses, live their lives. How bad is this? How can you live with this? Is there no local, state or federal help that are not corrupt to rid this element?????? JMO.

 

[Anniesflowers]

Yeah, the 'missing' of all those incriminating texts between the deceased and the defendant by Guarino in the Birchmore case was a real eye opener. Hard to believe it came down to simple incompetence. I suppose the door was not opened as to relevance to have that exposed on Guarino's record for this trial? Moo It's certainly an example of suspect activity involving a cop's potential bias and gross incompetence hindering an investigation against one of their own. JMO

Is there a Sandra Birchmore thread on Websleuths? I’d like to dig into the details of that case now that I know Kevin Albert was involved in the investigation.

 

[keek]

Shady yes.

It was impossible to me to be seeing him sitting on the stand in an official capacity. It is public knowledge and the information is out there and has been of why I can't believe he is sitting there in that position, though right now I assume he is able. All are very connected in their bubble of arrogance and righteousness and valueless of human beings other than themselves. These people, def not all the others in their respective departments and towns. IMO

 

[Moremarie]

YB also used a like emjoi on one at least of proctors crude texts. YB WAS proctor's supervisor in the MA STATE POLICE. YB got his hand slapped for this and non professional behavior as p's supervisor. More may be coming for YB in the future, I so hope. IMO
ALL a big joke just like KR said to YB, reason why he upped her charges, she called him out. He's a hater it seems very much of strong single women, intimidates him, actually disgusts him it seems. Not LE worthy or trusted ever again nor should he have been before of course. IMO

Seems YB chose loyalty over justice in this case.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Is there a Sandra Birchmore thread on Websleuths? I’d like to dig into the details of that case now that I know Kevin Albert was involved in the investigation.

Yep.

Thread 'MA - Sandra Birchmore, Stoughton, 4 Feb 2021 *former police officer arrested*'

Sep 25, 2022

MY BLOOD BOILS OVER THIS ONE. ARRRGH> NONE OF THESE MEN HAVE FACED ANY CONSEQUENCES.
Mass Guy- Can you believe this???? I am a native of Westwood, MA. My mom lives right by the line with Canton. Compared to where I live currently (Kansas City) MA seeems like a separate safer planet. Not anymore.

3 Ex-Stoughton Officers Had ‘Deeply Troubling' Relationships With Woman Who Later Died

Three former police officers in Stoughton, Massachusetts, had inappropriate sexual relationships with a young woman who died by suicide last year after becoming pregnant, the department’s chief said Friday after a lengthy internal investigation revealed the “serious misconduct.” Stoughton Police...

www.nbcboston.com

• waterslyd
• Replies: 375
• Forum: In the News

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[sunshineray]

Aren’t you one always posting about how drunk she was? Maybe that’s why.

Why do you think any of this outweighs the very important evidence based on medical science and physics that JOK was NOT killed by a car?

Yes she was drunk ergo the charge of vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated and leaving the scene. So her being intoxicated turned her into a lair? Until after she was arrest, then she was telling the truth?

There's a saying, "A drunk mind speaks a sober heart". Maybe the alcohol made KR a less inhibited in her words? Maybe the alcohol made her more focused on her immediate emotions and not on the later consequences of what she was saying? Maybe that's why she changed her story, after she challenged by JM and after she was arrested? Just some thoughts, AJMO

Aren't there also other expert opinions that say his injuries are consistent with a vehicle strike?

 

[Wishbone]

Yes she was drunk ergo the charge of vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated and leaving the scene. So her being intoxicated turned her into a lair? Until after she was arrest, then she was telling the truth?

There's a saying, "A drunk mind speaks a sober heart". Maybe the alcohol made KR a less inhibited in her words? Maybe the alcohol made her more focused on her immediate emotions and not on the later consequences of what she was saying? Maybe that's why she changed her story, after she challenged by JM and after she was arrested? Just some thoughts, AJMO

Aren't there also other expert opinions that say his injuries are consistent with a vehicle strike?

"Aren't there also other expert opinions that say his injuries are consistent with a vehicle strike?"

Maybe, but they are not ARCCA so they don't count if they differ. JMOO

 

[sunshineray]

@ 38:15 Peter goes into Brian Higgins, 1st trial vs this trial and how AJ made BH look after questioning YB.
Should the CW call BH again to testify and if not should the defense call BH?

There's a lot for the jury to ponder on BH's actions that night with his texting KR while they all were at Waterfalls bar, she didn't respond, BH texting JOK from AB's house asking if he was coming there and the 2+ am phone call BH made to BA from the police station.
IMO

38:15, stay with it.

IIRC didn't YB testify that KR and BH talked at that Waterfall, on video? Guess she didn't need to text him back. MO

 

[missy1974]

She doesn't like children, but JOK got onto her about spoiling the kids.
Makes no sense.
IMO.

Those text messages actually humanized her for me. I have not followed a lot of the outside drama in this case, so those texts, if I was analyzing them, show me that she was coming to terms that this relationship was probably coming to an end, but with the kids, it is complicated (like any relationship with kids involved).
I don't even know if Karen and John were together when his sister passed and he took over raising the kids?
Karen obviously made the choice to not have children, so when you are all of a sudden raising 2 kids, I can see where she was struggling with staying/not staying. And from everything I can tell so far, she did treat the children well?
The spoiling of the kids... I wonder if John would ever say to her - "they are not your kids" That is extremely hurtful to anyone actively helping to raise kids. Some of those texts made me think about this when she was saying "I am not married, I don't have kids". JMO

On the other side of this... it was douchey for her to reach out to one of his friends/drinking buddies to hook up (I had to google Higgins to see if he was as hot as she said in those texts.. .. to each their own lol) If you are done with the relationship, be done and then carry on with being single and doing whatever you want.... again, JMO.

 

[Wishbone]

IIRC didn't YB testify that KR and BH talked at that Waterfall, on video? Guess she didn't need to text him back. MO

I don't recall them talking and can't see a reason to text her if they talked. I do remember him sneaking many glances at her. JMOO

 

[missy1974]

Some cops are bias and should never wear a uniform. There's a lot of bias in the world. It doesn't mean every cop that gets on the stand to testify in the KR case is cut from the same cloth, as the defense would like the jury to think.

How many LE officers in one area or departments do you need before it becomes a "culture" within that department? This doesn't seem to be just a one bad apple type of thing in MA. JMO

 

[Maat99]

Yes she was drunk ergo the charge of vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated and leaving the scene. So her being intoxicated turned her into a lair? Until after she was arrest, then she was telling the truth?

There's a saying, "A drunk mind speaks a sober heart". Maybe the alcohol made KR a less inhibited in her words? Maybe the alcohol made her more focused on her immediate emotions and not on the later consequences of what she was saying? Maybe that's why she changed her story, after she challenged by JM and after she was arrested? Just some thoughts, AJMO

Aren't there also other expert opinions that say his injuries are consistent with a vehicle strike?

Do you mean the scientific explanation of trooper Paul “it just is/was/did”? Or maybe the time tested investigation method of “the scene spoke to me”? Or the cause of death determined by the same medical examiners office that decided Sandra Birchmore killed herself?

I think Karen’s motivation and words have been discussed over and over. Bottom line, you either believe in physics/science or you don’t. The incompetence and/or corruption in this investigation doesn’t offer any plausible evidence for an alternative. Jmo

 

[missy1974]

IIRC didn't YB testify that KR and BH talked at that Waterfall, on video? Guess she didn't need to text him back. MO

surely that was brought up in the trial? Can you point me to where that was shown? In this trial or the last? TIA

 

[sunshineray]

surely that was brought up in the trial? Can you point me to where that was shown? In this trial or the last? TIA

MA State Police YB's testimony yesterday, when they were viewing the video from the Waterfall, to show Albert, Higgins, Read and O'Keefe there.

 

[Anniesflowers]

I’m just finishing up YB’s cross from yesterday. It’s been an incredibly frustrating watch. YB has been bobbing and weaving all over the plaice. He’s rude, evasive, and unprofessional. I’m embarrassed he’s a Mass State Trooper in a supervisory role. His arrogance is off-putting.
I’ve been concerned that a few of the defense’s wins on cross have relied heavily on some understanding of technology, which may be too dry for folks to follow. I know my mind would start wandering and I’d miss some testimony.
YB’s behavior on the stand has been a big win for the defense because his behavior and past actions are easy to see and understand. So far, he’s been the best witness for the defense! MOO. ETA: moo.

 

[Anniesflowers]

MA State Police YB's testimony yesterday, when they were viewing the video from the Waterfall, to show Albert, Higgins, Read and O'Keefe there.

I just watched that part, I believe. At no point, did I hear either AJ or YB talk about a convo between Higgins and Read.

 

[Wishbone]

I just watched that part, I believe. At no point, did I hear either AJ or YB talk about a convo between Higgins and Read.

Thank you. Even if YB had said it I would not have believed it due to his incessant lying on the witness stand. JMOO