MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #26 Retrial

[RatFace]

My theory still works. Picking up the phone as the dog runs into hIS face ,knocking him out thus shattering the glass. Chloe bites him a few bites ,then realizing John is complying with her police dog commands ,stops and notices it lights out for John and paws at his arm a few times. Where she is rushed into witness protect programs in agreement with the DA and The MSP.

Haha, seems about as plausible as anything I can come up with!

 

[bobbymkii]

But the cell phone would have started to heat up even if it was in the house for a short time. And still hard to believe a bunch of drunk cops came up with a plan like that immediately.

not for me it isn't. I'm not LE and IANAL, just a trial nerd and I see how often cellphone stuff comes up in these trials. These people know exactly how important cellphones are to investigations and how they record potentially incriminating data. Just because they've drank a few Bud Lights and a shot or two of Tito's that's not going to evaporate their LE knowledge all of a sudden.

 

[waldojabba]

There is no compromise to the CW changing their timeline AGAIN.

The timing is one of the reasons I couldn't understand why they would retry her or was allowed to. That was a big thing in the 1st trial. Now in the 2nd trial they are yet again changing it, mid-trial.

Brutal.

As a local, you should be ticked off waldojabba

JMO

lol I think its as low as you can go - dont get me wrong - this whole thing is a farce
But .. the judge asked Alessi to come up with an alternative to what he was asking for
by tomorrow morning
So we will see
JMO

 

[Warwick7]

My thought is that if he died in the house, it must have happened very quickly and then they would have placed his phone onto the lawn almost immediately afterwards, long before moving his body. Many of them have extensive law enforcement experience, they know how important cellphones are in providing evidence in things like this, smartphones are the closest thing we have to a blackbox recorder for the human body in the 21st century.

JMO

BBM
This is exactly what I think happened!!!!

 

[kuromiiiilove]

It's not that the plan was hard to come up with but that it would have had to have been immediate.

Do you think it’s abnormal for people to immediately begin staging a scene or coming up with a plan in the wake of someone’s death if they are not willing to own up to their role in it? I feel that it’s pretty common… definitely more so than sitting around with a corpse. MOO.

 

[Warwick7]

But the cell phone would have started to heat up even if it was in the house for a short time. And still hard to believe a bunch of drunk cops came up with a plan like that immediately.

BBM
I don't find it hard to believe. After all---they are law enforcement.

 

[Soulmagent]

Haha, seems about as plausible as anything I can come up with!

I didnt do as well with the states theory.
I mean not without a superhero magician expert and the CW does not have one on the list.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

BBM
I don't find it hard to believe. After all---they are law enforcement.

I don’t even think they needed to be law enforcement. There’s lots of cases - Shanquella Robinson comes to mind - where a fight goes too far, and the lies begin.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I think it's a fair guess that John and his phone were separated early on.

Jen McCabe had to have known Karen was already gone when she kept calling John's number. (the accidental butt dials that magically never went to VM.) She testified she was looking out the window after the time Karen left, and there's no way she saw Karen at 12:45 as she claimed.

When I can't find my phone, I have Alexa call it.

 

[Soulmagent]

I think it's a fair guess that John and his phone were separated early on.

Jen McCabe had to have known Karen was already gone when she kept calling John's number. (the accidental butt dials that magically never went to VM.) She testified she was looking out the window after the time Karen left, and there's no way she saw Karen at 12:45 as she claimed.

When I can't find my phone, I have Alexa call it.

Maybe all the calls to John were them trying to locate Johns Phone. And they were not butt dails and the watching out the window was to see if his phone was lighting up out there.

 

[RatFace]

Do you think it’s abnormal for people to immediately begin staging a scene or coming up with a plan in the wake of someone’s death? I feel that it’s pretty common… definitely more so than sitting around with a corpse. MOO.

His death would have to have been immediate and then they get the phone out there within a minute or so? According the cell phone data, the phone reacts quickly to temperature change. I think it would be abnormal to do anything that quickly unless it was premeditated.

 

[waldojabba]

There is no reason to feel sorry for Brennan. He's unethical, he's underhanded, he's greedy, he's in the role of prosecutor but is not interested in a just and fair prosecution. Instead, he's playing this as dirty as the judge will let him. No respect at all from me. Jmo

Same same @jepop
HB is so pathetic ...that I almost feel sorry for him - that someone goes through life like that -does not mean I approve of his behavior or that I would want him any where near me
HB has made his choices and he is marinating in them about now - but he is raking in the cash which I think is all that matters to him - he's a craven, unethical, not very bright guy.
He has to know that even with the favoritism being shown to the P - he is taking a beating and that he is a total laughing stock.
JMO

 

[HarmonyE.]

Maybe all the calls to John were them trying to locate Johns Phone.

Yes. That's exactly what I think they were. Of course, she denied her calls were intentionally made. But dialing done by butts doesn't result in multiple hang ups and re-dials. She was lying.

 

[missy1974]

So many things in this case that don't make sense. But when professionals are coming in saying he didn't get hit by a car, then you have to look for other answers. The car also didn't bite his arm, and IMO those marks on his arm, holes in his sweatshirt are from a dog.

The ME did not help the CW today. She made it really clear that she has all the available information that the jury already has and she still could not say he was hit by a car.

The CW's case was not solid the 1st time around, they adjusted the timeline and other things the 2nd time around and it didn't make it any more solid.. and now want to adjust mid-trial again? As a long time trial watcher, that is kind of insane to me.

 

[Seni]

I watched the first trial, told myself I would not watch the 2nd, but can't help tuning in.

IMO, prosecution has brought nothing new so far, not attempted to tweak its own witnesses into being clearer, more concrete.

Whilst it is the defence bringing in evidence, challenging and clarifying previous statements. They used the time to do more homework, become more knowledgable in the expert witnesses' fields, knowing where the weak points of the first trial lay and in the end turning the prosecution witnesses to defence's advantage.

Also, the sheer energy, commitment and respectful and informed questioning of expert witnesses is so impressive. If they get over ruled, they immediately can re-phrase and mostly get the point across.

Alessi, in particular, is so sharp, so versatile, genuinely polite with everyone. Havent seen much of Yanetti in this trial, but Jackson and Alessi both speak with much conviction.

Whilst Brennan comes across as a bit bored (not as bad as Lally, but still).

I bet this dynamic is not lost on the jurors, in addition to the points they are managing to bring across.

 

[Odeto BJ]

My thought is that if he died in the house, it must have happened very quickly and then they would have placed his phone onto the lawn almost immediately afterwards, long before moving his body. Many of them have extensive law enforcement experience, they know how important cellphones are in providing evidence in things like this, smartphones are the closest thing we have to a blackbox recorder for the human body in the 21st century.

JMO

Did we actually see a plot of the temperature profile? If JOK was carrying his phone in an inside pocket, say, it would be recording near-body temperature even after he entered the house. It would not have warmed up should it already be warmer than the interior temperature....
So following the path a little further: Before he gets to the front door, there is some form of greeting or confrontation, a delay...then he barely entered the house, was pushed back outside (one shoe undone...), a quick shouting match followed by a punch or 2 and a fall backwards: The phone is located, nominally pulled from wherever JOK was carrying it; and stashed outdoors.
The phone did not have to go all the way to the lawn to get cold: a windowsill, a mail box, a planter box; anything outdoors would have sufficed. Of course that cooling can't start and proceed continually while the phone is in use, because that would put JOK alive and outdoors for a period of time.
The time interval from last use of the phone to KR's connect to JOK's WiFi is critical: as it was it barely left KR time to get back to JOK's house.

So this deviation of even a minute is not just late in developing and delivery. Everything the CW has already delivered as timeline evidence has to be reconsidered, everything contained in the D's expert reports is subject to be undermined. And Brennan wants last word?

WOW. Cannone needs to be careful with this one.

JMO and OMO

 

[DropthePuck]

Alessi following up. Asking about alcohol consumption and medications.

ME is reviewing a list of John’s medications to see if any could have a synergistic effect with alcohol.

Alessi specifically points out Omeprazole, an antacid. Pepcid. Its a PPI that can increase alcohol absorption.

Alessi points out that the ulcers in JOK’s stomach could have come from alcohol consumption rather than hypothermia. Dr. Scordi-Bello agrees.

Fun fact: Alessi is a licensed pharmacist in New York.

Robert Alessi | DLA Piper

www.dlapiper.com

 

[jepop]

Same same @jepop
HB is so pathetic ...that I almost feel sorry for him - that someone goes through life like that -does not mean I approve of his behavior or that I would want him any where near me
HB has made his choices and he is marinating in them about now - but he is raking in the cash which I think is all that matters to him - he's a craven, unethical, not very bright guy.
He has to know that even with the favoritism being shown to the P - he is taking a beating and that he is a total laughing stock.
JMO

His reputation for being intelligent preceded him but this trial is confirming he is simply full of hot air. When truly challenged he deflates. He is not smart but he is a true player. Maybe he's needed nothing more than that up until now. Jmo

 

[Seni]

And wow, looking at the photo of JOK" s arm again today. Very powerful. This will be more important this time, I hope.

ETA, were jurors shown this photo in first trial? Cant remember

 

[lonetraveler]

There is no compromise to the CW changing their timeline AGAIN.

The timing is one of the reasons I couldn't understand why they would retry her or was allowed to. That was a big thing in the 1st trial. Now in the 2nd trial they are yet again changing it, mid-trial.

Brutal.

As a local, you should be ticked off waldojabba

JMO

Timeline has become just multiple choice at this point.