MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #27 Retrial

[themonk]

I think we can critique the Judge's decisions in the case without calling for her to be investigated by the federal government.

IMO

why not both?

 

[ShadyLady]

AV did not receive John’s clothing until 3/14/2022. So for 6 weeks, MSP crime lab did not have John’s clothing.

What is the reason the crime lab was not asked to go to the hospital or the where the tail light pieces where found to retrieve the "evidence".

 

[waldojabba]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1923418225498378639

‘the defense needs to immediately demand all communications between the prosecution and Aperture regarding the mid-trial changed opinion. The key now must be why this happened mid-trial AFTER Whiffin testified. The jury is entitled to know that the prosecution went from 12:45 to 12:31 to 12:32 and that the timeline always moved after the prior one was exposed as inaccurate. The jury also needs to know about Trooper Paul's foolish and now rejected analysis. The full picture reveals just how desperate the prosecution is and how willing they have been to shape-shift to try to adapt to the evidence in real time. This is a national embarrassment!’

This desision by the court, as Bedrow indicates, really is a HUGE black eye for the Massachusetts legal system nationally. Judge Cannone imo has really "stepped in it" with this legal ruling.
IMO

From a practical( not a legal one) point of view - I think most jurors are going to glaze over the actual scientific details of ARRCA and Appertune ( key strokes and cycles etc)and prob go with whomever they deem more likable ( they will confuse that with more credible). Or they will each cross each other out.

I think the ME was credible and likable. She indicated she felt that John's injuries were not consistent with being hit with a vehicle. So theres that.

I think with Appertures shifting of things Alessi will be able to show the Apperture opinion is a moving target and that further indicates that not even Apperture has confidence in their own opinions and is constantly trying to tailor it to the P's narrative.

Still a boatload of reaonable doubt to get a NG verdict and Defense has not presented their case yet.

JMO

 

[kuromiiiilove]

So when was the log for this entered into evidence?

The log is ‘trust us, we had it’ according to Yuri Buhkenik.

 

[ShadyLady]

What is the reason the crime lab was not asked to go to the hospital or the where the tail light pieces where found to retrieve the "evidence".

I will answer my own question.....because Procter was no NO HURRY to have it analyzed.

 

[rescuemom]

I'm sure an appeals court would love to hear it as well.

The CW is sooo desparate, do they care if this appealed? Kick the can down the road and deal with it later. This whole case has been built on that exact thing. JOK was killed in the house and the idiots inside did not know what to do with that. Along comes KR and the evidence then needed to match her movements, her texts, her utterances and her interviews. Sad that time and money will be spent and lives will continue to be ruined.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I think we can critique the Judge's decisions in the case without calling for her to be investigated by the federal government.

IMO

Sure, we can critique her decisions all day, but at a certain point, when those decisions consistently benefit the prosecution, disadvantage the defense, and ignore glaring due process issues, it stops being a matter of critique and starts being a matter of concern. She refused to recuse herself despite being asked. She’s allowed re-rebuttal after late disclosure from the CW, while penalizing the defense for doing the same. That’s a pattern. When a judge appears to facilitate the state’s case at every critical turn, people are right to raise red flags. Even federal ones. MOO.

 

[mrjitty]

So when was the log for this entered into evidence?

AV did not receive John’s clothing until 3/14/2022. So for 6 weeks, MSP crime lab did not have John’s clothing.

We've been through this before with Hartnett

Before items were transferred to the crime lab - they were in the evidence room.

Mostly the entry of items into evidence is discussed/stipulated before trial. If there were issues with the logs / COC the defence would challenge the evidence and especially make the relevant witnesses testify to each step. It does not happen in most cases as lots of time would be wasted for no purpose.

In any event, Proctor did not have the shirt in his personal possession before it went to the crime lab.

MOO

 

[rescuemom]

I think we can critique the Judge's decisions in the case without calling for her to be investigated by the federal government.

IMO

You're kidding. IMO, she is either incompetent or corrupt, you name it.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1923422111378362873

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

We've been through this before with the Hartnett

Before items were transferred to the crime lab - they were in the evidence room.

Mostly the entry of items into evidence is discussed/stipulated before trial. If there were issues with the logs / COC the defence would challenge the evidence and especially make the relevant witnesses testify to each step. It does not happen in most cases as lots of time would be wasted for no purpose.

In any event, Proctor did not have the shirt in his personal possession before it went to the crime lab.

MOO

How do I know he didn't have it? Because some corrupt LE entity tells me so without actually producing any kind of paper trail? Sorry, I'm through giving them the benefit of the doubt. Just like they told me Higgins was at the PD that night to move some cars around and *SHOCKED FACE* he wasn't doing that at all. JMO

 

[Odeto BJ]

IANAL either but I agree with you completely. There is no legitimate reason the CW should be allowed a re-rebuttal just because their own timeline fell apart under scrutiny. The defense has already examined and cross-examined witnesses, and their experts have written reports in good faith based on the original timeline the CW certified in discovery. Letting Brennan sneak in a revised timeline at this stage is not just prejudicial. It’s a clear due process violation IMO.

The CW doesn’t get to rewrite the script halfway through the play because their story isn’t tracking. The defense is under zero obligation to clean up the mess for them, and as Alessi said, Judge Cannone just essentially put the burden on the defense. This ‘re-rebuttal’ fiasco opens the door to mistrial, and that’s on the Commonwealth, not the defense.

This is like challenging someone to a chess match, making your move, watching your opponent counter it, and then insisting you get a do-over because suddenly you want to change where you placed your pieces. MOO.

Obviously there is more meat on this bone then BH is willing to disclose but BC time and again has permitted the CW to trounce on the D (not least by sustaining multiple objections to material questions on cross) and demonstrated her own disdain for the D's legal team.
On the face of it the time adjustment alone seems to weaken the P. It appears there are 38 seconds LESS for KR to have made the trip from Fairview to JOK's house. That leads suspicious minds to believe there is a much bigger GOTCHA in this revision than has been disclosed in court....Hopefully ARCCA and others can devote all of 4-days to examining the minutia. JMO

Also key: When do the 4-days happen/start? As BC departed, it appeared the trial was going to continue unabated....no instructions to the jury not to attend, unless I missed it entirely. MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Sure, we can critique her decisions all day, but at a certain point, when those decisions consistently benefit the prosecution, disadvantage the defense, and ignore glaring due process issues, it stops being a matter of critique and starts being a matter of concern. She refused to recuse herself despite being asked. She’s allowed re-rebuttal after late disclosure from the CW, while penalizing the defense for doing the same. That’s a pattern. When a judge appears to facilitate the state’s case at every critical turn, people are right to raise red flags. Even federal ones. MOO.

Well generally decisions are appealed before we demand Judges get investigated by the government.

Also you say the Judge didn't recuse when asked, but why would she? There were no substantive grounds, and my understanding is that for judicial efficiency the same judge almost always takes the retrial.

In any event, I have not seen anything that would be even close to warranting criminal investigation, and realistically we should be very slow to want that.

IMO

 

[Deleted member 246707]

I don’t think it’s fair to reduce Scordi-Bello’s testimony to “best-intentioned but inaccurate,” especially when she was testifying under oath as the CW’s own expert in Trial 1. She wasn’t guessing. She cited her review of EMS and hospital records. If the new theory is that everyone missed a line in the hand, EMS, hospital staff, and their own ME, that raises serious chain-of-custody and documentation questions, especially when that hand was used as a reason to explain postmortem injuries!

I don’t think anyone is saying a doctor was involved in a cover up. MOO.

Let's try this another way...

I'm suggesting the defense has chosen not to pursue (and I'm going off of what has been said here, not watching the trial daily) this avenue because they don't think it will help KR's defense. Full stop. Period. End of story.

And, if they don't believe it will help KR's case, then I'd suggest there are reasons they think it might, in fact, do the opposite. Not, that they are lazy, dumb, or don't realize what you're saying.

Furthermore, I take it you're implying that if you were on her defense team, you'd take a different course of action. That's fine, but I was addressing KR's lawyers and why they might do what they do.

 

[waldojabba]

The feds need to do an investigation on Judge Cannone, how have her superiors not stepped in by now, so corrupt, MOO

Actually the word on the street has forever been that the Feds were investigating the Judge's boss DA Morrissey. So its a bird's of a feather type situation that probably goes even higher up the chain if I had to guess.
Then the AG's changed and who knows.... corruption may not be their priority
Its a less than perfect world - so we shall see what happens
JMO

 

[mrjitty]

How do I know he didn't have it? Because some corrupt LE entity tells me so without actually producing any kind of paper trail? Sorry, I'm through giving them the benefit of the doubt. Just like they told me Higgins was at the PD that night to move some cars around and *SHOCKED FACE* he wasn't doing that at all. JMO

Ok but now you are making a completely different argument to which there is no response.

If things are so corrupt that they just fake the evidence logs then sure. All bets are off.

IMO

 

[Angelwatch]

The feds need to do an investigation on Judge Cannone, how have her superiors not stepped in by now, so corrupt, MOO

In a way, the appeals court is one of Cannone’s superiors. They did issue a lifting/easing of the buffer zone ban she put in place.

The appeal process is probably the best way to go about ensuring fair decisions. If KR is convicted, there’s likely a number of rulings that could be used to appeal, but IANAL.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Let's try this another way...

I'm suggesting the defense has chosen not to pursue (and I'm going off of what has been said here, not watching the trial daily) this avenue because they don't think it will help KR's defense. Full stop. Period. End of story.

And, if they don't believe it will help KR's case, then I'd suggest there are reasons they think it might, in fact, do the opposite. Not, that they are lazy, dumb, or don't realize what you're saying.

Furthermore, I take it you're implying that if you were on her defense team, you'd take a different course of action. That's fine, but I was addressing KR's lawyers and why they might do what they do.

I certainly am not implying I would take a different approach if I were on the defense team, that’s a leap, and it wasn’t the point of my original post. I was responding to someone else, specifically regarding testimony from Trial 1: Dr. Scordi-Bello, the CW’s own expert, clearly stated under oath that there was no IV in the hand, based on EMS and hospital documentation.

My point was that if that is now being contradicted in this trial, it raises serious documentation and chain-of-custody issues, especially since that same hand is being used to explain postmortem injuries. All MOO.

 

[Jeanny]

There are two things I don't understand about the Karen Read Trial. Following the dramatic hearing, Read spoke to reporters for the first time.
"We know who did it. We know. And we know who spearheaded this coverup. You all know,"

If they and we all know who did it and who spearheaded this coverup, why aren't these mystery persons or person being arrested, since everybody knows?

Also, Karen Read lied in the interview (I think 20/20) about how much she drank that evening/morning (she said 4 drinks and didn't finish them). Shouldn't this be brought up in court, since her blood alcohol level was over the limit? The video at the Waterfall shows her drinking alcohol, and adding shots to her drinks. After she added the shots, John O'Keefe stirred them into her drink.

 

[ShadyLady]

Ok but now you are making a completely different argument to which there is no response.

If things are so corrupt that they just fake the evidence logs then sure. All bets are off.

IMO

Procter and crew were waiting...hoping Karen would take a plea deal, and evidence could be safely buried, IMO.