MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #27 Retrial

[Warwick7]

Jen McCabe made this comment all flustered when she was on the stand. The car repair guy was at John’s house on, I believe, January 30th. So is it normal for a grieving family to be so concerned about the condition of his vehicle 40 or so hours after his death? Or, did they want to make it seem like Karen didn’t hit his car not knowing there was video proof? MOO

Oh that's right!

Then the defense showed that video to Yuri, forcing him to agree that KR hit John's Traverse. He resented having to admit she did hit it. M00

How convenient it would then be for state police to say he saw no damage to John O'Keefe's car days after O'Keefe's death. M00

 

[Wishbone]

Oh that's right!

Then the defense showed that video to Yuri, forcing him to agree that KR hit John's Traverse. He resented having to admit she did hit it. M00

How convenient it would then be for state police to say he saw no damage to John O'Keefe's car days after O'Keefe's death. M00

It seems like the defense should be able to track down the repair shop for info on what was repaired. JMOO

 

[waldojabba]

Wow and thank you.
Good for them.
Also we don't know for sure who mumbled under their breath and since jurors don't have mics did she really blame them for her mumble?
Was it a female's voice?
I couldn't make it out.

imo

It seems like the defense should be able to track down the repair shop for info on what was repaired. JMOO

I took Jen's comment to mean that once the word spread about JOhn's death. that John Okeefes house was so packed with people coming to see the family that even the car repair man was there.

I have not relistened to testimony, but wasn't that an answer Jen gave in response to a question about did Jen go the house that day and who else was there?
JMO

 

[Spectrix]

Jen McCabe made this comment all flustered when she was on the stand. The car repair guy was at John’s house on, I believe, January 30th. So is it normal for a grieving family to be so concerned about the condition of his vehicle 40 or so hours after his death? Or, did they want to make it seem like Karen didn’t hit his car not knowing there was video proof? MOO

Whaaaaaat!
Didn't we only just see a video from the prosecution showing the car in perfect condition a few days after John's death. I remember wondering how it could possibly have no damage.
Honestly it's one thing after the other with this case. You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[Angelwatch]

Here is the best I can explain it - please keep in mind that we are piecing together info from 2 motions hearings, based on new Lexus data we never saw in T1. I am not trying to argue for anything - this is simply my understanding of what Alessi was saying. Please accept it on that basis.

Alessi is arguing about the variance between Lexus clock and IOS clock for 2 events - the 'collision event' in 1162 and John's last steps/actions recorded by his phone. Alessi argues (cross of Whiffin) that the final IOS step happens some number of seconds after the 'collision event'. Alessi argues (cross of ME) that John was instantly capacitated and took no steps after his head injury. Alessi thus concludes that the collision event was not John because it happens too many seconds before his final steps (DiSorga variance calculation).

If 1162 is on a different day then these seconds would not matter. Of course the D can argue in the alternative in theory, but I am not sure it would wash in practice.

IMO/MOO

It’s only a “supposed” collision event inferred by the CW. Alessi won’t be arguing a collision event ever occurred with the Lexus. Do you mean trigger event?

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

<modsnip> ... msm stating the jury sent the Judge a note asking her to stop interfering with the defense so they the jury can listen to the witnesses.
(Is this why she was so hearty to admonish them about giggling and looks?)

Wow @Warwick7 granted IANAL but this seems astonishing. And IMO cannot likely be good for the CW.

And even worse IMO, there have been many posting in both trials that it does not seem proper that the judge in this case will not state on the record, clearly and unequivocally, the reason for an objection being sustained or overruled. No case law is cited or precedence given on the record at time of ruling IIRC. MOO

 

[Spider92]

Have any locals done the drive to find out hos long it takes to drive from 34 Fairview to Meadows?

 

[Maat99]

Wow @Warwick7 granted IANAL but this seems astonishing. And IMO cannot likely be good for the CW.

And even worse IMO, there have been many posting in both trials that it does not seem proper that the judge in this case will not state on the record, clearly and unequivocally, the reason for an objection being sustained or overruled. No case law is cited or precedence given on the record at time of ruling IIRC. MOO

Hopefully Judge Cannone’s obvious bias is going to backfire on her in a major way: CW loses and Cannone has destroyed her own credibility and reputation for nothing.

 

[Warwick7]

Sure - I discussed it in more detail yesterday with the timestamp (Alessi argues before and after Brennan). However they then had another motions hearing about this yesterday.

I was most interested that he said that case turns on mere seconds. Especially he says that the defence strategy was effectuated (i.e in cross) on those fine timings. Especially the cross of Whiffin. So were the defence saying that Cycle 1162 is on a different day, none of this would matter. Of course we do need to allow for the fact that the defence can argue in the alternative, but IMO it sounds like the CW have strong evidence that 1162 is the F34 trip.

I think the most relevant part starts at 2 hours 22.

MOO

I had to re-read this. I'm trying to wrap my head around what you are saying.

What I emboldened is what you said: "...but IMO it sounds like the CW have strong evidence that 1162 is the F34 trip."

But, 1162 can not be the F34 trip.

I drew a chart for myself trying to understand "key cycles." Which I have to call (ignition turnover) just to make heads or tails out of this.
---------------

Ok....here is a part of my chart: using trial testimony:


Ignition is turned over: 1159 Drove from Waterfall Bar to 34 Fairview. The ignition was never shut off. Then KR drove to JO's Home. Then turned ignition off.

Next

Ignition is turned over: 1160 KR backs out of JO's driveway hitting his Traverse. (5am or so). She drives to JM's home. The ignition isn't shut off. She drives back to JO's home. She shuts off the ignition.

Next

The ignition is turned over: 1161 KR drives from JO's house to her parents’ home in Dighton. The ignition is turned off.

Next


The ignition is turned over: 1162 Her car is loaded onto the tow truck while at her parents' home in Dighton.

From testimony, at 10 minutes and 19 minutes after the ignition is turned over, the milage is documented at 12,629. Then ignition is turned off.

Next

The ignition is turned over: 1163 LE drives it off the tow truck and into Sally Port. Then the ignition is turned off.

Next

The ignition is turned over: 1164 Trooper Paul says this is his Testing (whatever that means). His testimony says the mileage read at 12,665. Then ignition is turned off.
---------------------------

1. This shows it is absolutely NOT evidence that 1162 is the F34 trip.

2. Why in the he!! did KR's car gain 36 miles while it was in LE (Proctor's) control???!!

 

[Maat99]

I had to re-read this. I'm trying to wrap my head around what you are saying.

What I emboldened is what you said: "...but IMO it sounds like the CW have strong evidence that 1162 is the F34 trip."

But, 1162 can not be the F34 trip.

I drew a chart for myself trying to understand "key cycles." Which I have to call (ignition turnover) just to make heads or tails out of this.
---------------

Ok....here is a part of my chart: using trial testimony:


Ignition is turned over: 1159 Drove from Waterfall Bar to 34 Fairview. The ignition was never shut off. Then KR drove to JO's Home. Then turned ignition off.

Next

Ignition is turned over: 1160 KR backs out of JO's driveway hitting his Traverse. (5am or so). She drives to JM's home. The ignition isn't shut off. She drives back to JO's home. She shuts off the ignition.

Next

The ignition is turned over: 1161 KR drives from JO's house to her parents’ home in Dighton. The ignition is turned off.

Next


The ignition is turned over: 1162 Her car is loaded onto the tow truck while at her parents' home in Dighton.

From testimony, at 10 minutes and 19 minutes after the ignition is turned over, the milage is documented at 12,629. Then ignition is turned off.

Next

The ignition is turned over: 1163 LE drives it off the tow truck and into Sally Port. Then the ignition is turned off.

Next

The ignition is turned over: 1164 Trooper Paul says this is his Testing (whatever that means). His testimony says the mileage read at 12,665. Then ignition is turned off.
---------------------------

1. This shows it is absolutely NOT evidence that 1162 is the F34 trip.

2. Why in the he!! did KR's car gain 36 miles while it was in LE control???!!

Like everything else they present in this trial, the CW evidence is sloppy, cherry picked and inconclusive with gaping holes.

 

[Warwick7]

Like everything else they present in this trial, the CW evidence is sloppy, cherry picked and inconclusive with gaping holes.

Thank you for saying that.

Some of this cherry picking is hard for me to understand. So I have to draw myself charts and lists. This way I can get a grip on the trial testimony.

In M00 it is so obvious KR is being framed.

 

[missy1974]

1. Higgins texted “you coming here” at 12:20am

2. JO & KR arrive outside 34F at 12:21am

3. JO’s phone records 80 steps and 3 flights of stairs
4. John's Apple Health data shows he ascended/descended 3 flights of stairs between 12:23 & 12:35am, proving he wasn't incapacitated yet. Karen had to have departed 34 Fairview by 12:29, as her phone connected to John's WiFi at 12:36. John was still active at 12:35, and therefore, had not been mortally injured by Karen Read.

M00 He was in that house and down those steps to his demise. ME was informed there was a party and altercation in that house.

BBM

I had to go look it up, but Ryan Nagels text to his sister - "here" - was at 12:23am. So that lines up with them not seeing JOK too. He was already on his way in or in the house as they were pulling up?

 

[Soulmagent]

Whaaaaaat!
Didn't we only just see a video from the prosecution showing the car in perfect condition a few days after John's death. I remember wondering how it could possibly have no damage.
Honestly it's one thing after the other with this case. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Those things are pretty solid. I had one hit me in my 1997 e350 and just put a dent on my car and nothing on the traverse . Then my niece totaled my 2016 VW by running into the back of white traverse ,the Chevy was completely fine. I would rate one high for the abilty to hold up for those low speed high impact type of things. Well placed plastics etc.. IMO

 

[Warwick7]

BBM

I had to go look it up, but Ryan Nagels text to his sister - "here" - was at 12:23am. So that lines up with them not seeing JOK too. He was already on his way in or in the house as they were pulling up?

Yep!!! in M00

 

[lohrtabitha]

Hopefully Judge Cannone’s obvious bias is going to backfire on her in a major way: CW loses and Cannone has destroyed her own credibility and reputation for nothing.

She might have to not only retire but rehome. I don't think she will be welcome there any more.

 

[Angelwatch]

I had to re-read this. I'm trying to wrap my head around what you are saying.

What I emboldened is what you said: "...but IMO it sounds like the CW have strong evidence that 1162 is the F34 trip."

But, 1162 can not be the F34 trip.

I drew a chart for myself trying to understand "key cycles." Which I have to call (ignition turnover) just to make heads or tails out of this.
---------------

Ok....here is a part of my chart: using trial testimony:


Ignition is turned over: 1159 Drove from Waterfall Bar to 34 Fairview. The ignition was never shut off. Then KR drove to JO's Home. Then turned ignition off.

Next

Ignition is turned over: 1160 KR backs out of JO's driveway hitting his Traverse. (5am or so). She drives to JM's home. The ignition isn't shut off. She drives back to JO's home. She shuts off the ignition.

Next

The ignition is turned over: 1161 KR drives from JO's house to her parents’ home in Dighton. The ignition is turned off.

Next


The ignition is turned over: 1162 Her car is loaded onto the tow truck while at her parents' home in Dighton.

From testimony, at 10 minutes and 19 minutes after the ignition is turned over, the milage is documented at 12,629. Then ignition is turned off.

Next

The ignition is turned over: 1163 LE drives it off the tow truck and into Sally Port. Then the ignition is turned off.

Next

The ignition is turned over: 1164 Trooper Paul says this is his Testing (whatever that means). His testimony says the mileage read at 12,665. Then ignition is turned off.
---------------------------

1. This shows it is absolutely NOT evidence that 1162 is the F34 trip.

2. Why in the he!! did KR's car gain 36 miles while it was in LE (Proctor's) control???!!

Impressive. I saw the photo documenting the 12665 mileage. It might have been with Proctor in it. It was shown in earlier testimony. Do you recall how the 12,629 was documented?

 

[Warwick7]

Impressive. I saw the photo documenting the 12665 mileage. It might have been with Proctor in it. It was shown in earlier testimony. Do you recall how the 12,629 was documented?

From Trooper Paul's testimony. From his testimony, 10 minutes and 19 minutes after the ignition is turned over, the milage is documented at 12,629. Then ignition is turned off.

 

[Seni]

Wow @Warwick7 granted IANAL but this seems astonishing. And IMO cannot likely be good for the CW.

And even worse IMO, there have been many posting in both trials that it does not seem proper that the judge in this case will not state on the record, clearly and unequivocally, the reason for an objection being sustained or overruled. No case law is cited or precedence given on the record at time of ruling IIRC. MOO

I'm not sure she has to back up every objection, but surely Jury must be wondering why so many, why all the side bars and sessions they are not privy to.

 

[Forest_Wood]

In addition to seeing Read, Rice treated O'Keefe when he was rushed to the hospital after being found in the snow.O'Keefe was in cardiac arrest and had a body temperature of 80.1 degrees when he arrived. He had no pulse, and also had a cut, and other scratches on his forearm.

What was Karen Read's blood alcohol level on the night John O'Keefe died? Experts testify at trial

The prosecutor in the Karen Read murder trial focused on Read's blood alcohol level the night John O'Keefe died.

www.cbsnews.com

7:59 a.m.: O'Keefe is pronounced dead at Good Samaritan Hospital.

What happened in the Karen Read case? Timeline of investigations, trials

As the second trial against Karen Read concludes, there’s a lot to keep in mind — from the hours before John O’Keefe’s death three years ago to her acquittal on all charges besides operating under the influence.

www.nbcboston.com

So Karen Read was seen in the emergency room for a mental health crisis?

 

[Wishbone]

So Karen Read was seen in the emergency room for a mental health crisis?

Canton firefighter and paramedic Daniel Whitley testified Wednesday that first responders received orders to take Read to the hospital for a mental health evaluation after she discovered her boyfriend’s body.

He testified that Read was “pretty upset” and crying, though her emotions fluctuated as they traveled to the hospital.

“She kept asking if there was any chance her husband [sic] could be alive, even sitting outside in the snow with no coat on for many hours,” Whitley recalled. He said firefighters tried to “give her hope” by telling her about hypothermia cases where patients miraculously survived with no deficits.

‘Sick of always arguing and fighting’: Trooper reads heated texts between Karen Read and John O’Keefe

The Karen Read murder trial entered its third day of testimony Thursday, with more witnesses taking the stand.

www.boston.com