MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #29 Retrial

[lohrtabitha]

In the still of the morning silence before dawn. No way they were sleeping! Especially after JMc called her sister at 05:07 and 06:10 or whenever. And come to think of it, why wouldn't she have also called Brian Albert when Nicole didn't answer? OR call the nephew Brian Albert Junior. Come on! A dead man on the lawn and she's not worried about her relatives in the house beside the dead guy. It makes no sense!

Yes to all of this and don't forget BA testified in trial 1 that Chloe was at the foot of his bed or closet which both are only 6 feet from the window. That dog was going nuts. They were not sleeping and JM did not wake them up. Liars! Jmo

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Mr Burgess did not submit false credentials to the court. His CV's said pursing a BA.

Respectfully, believe will need to disagree. By example, here is what was posted on Aperture LLC website for Shanon Burgess’ CV, Education experience, and related ‘expert’ credentials. Note the University of Alabama cited degrees, and a date given 2022.

Note also the “Not for Expert Certification” watermark added to that document. MOO

 

[keek]

Lucky testified that he was well aware of the basketball net. He saw it and explained he underestimated his approach as he navigated the truck around it. He was clear that he paid particular attention to his surroundings because "God Forbid" he would be devastated if he hit a small animal

I believe he said it was that kind that has the base sticking out, must of been, as it makes the pole and hoop stable. Placed on the edge of the street/sidewalk of a homeowner. IMO

 

[OldCop]

I just watched Dr. Wolf's testimony. I imagine Alessi decided after his direct testimony, that there was not much to disagree with because Dr. Wolf's testimony about HOW it happened, was still not definitive IMO

Even Dr. Wolf said that an object more likely than not would have shown a depressed skull fracture. More likely then not is not definitive. Again, JMO

His experience with cold weather falls, drunks falling, etc was from his time in Minnesota. I live in Canada, but we have similar weather to Minnesota... I have enough life experience with cold weather, snowing, blizzards to understand that the way they are saying a cold hard ground on that night may not have been as cold and as hard as they say. Again JMO And I'm sure the jury has some experience with that as well

My thoughts are that there are a lot of other hard things to fall backwards on besides cold ground. Would concrete basements be hard? They may also be cold. IIRC There was no dirt or grass found in JOK’s head injuries.

 

[missy1974]

To the FBI when they came a'callin'. BOLD. She told her husb and he said call them back it is a crime. She explained it away as she thought they were salesmen..please. Right quick to lie and also throw someone else's name around. IMO

No, I think her husband had to tell her to call them back because of who she called AFTER she lied to them and said she was her sister.

She lied to them outside.. went into the house.. they called her and she told them to give her a few minutes, in those few minutes, she called numerous people before talking to them and then lied to them about who she called. I think that is what he told her to call them about.

Lots of lies to remember.

 

[HarmonyE.]

No, I think her husband had to tell her to call them back because of who she called AFTER she lied to them and said she was her sister.

She lied to them outside.. went into the house.. they called her and she told them to give her a few minutes, in those few minutes, she called numerous people before talking to them and then lied to them about who she called. I think that is what he told her to call them about.

Lots of lies to remember.

I can almost hear Matt now:

You. Don't. Lie. To. The FBI. Call them back right now.

Yeah, but they all did anyway.

 

[New Penny]

I’m sure Lucky means well. But it’s been established that he ran into a basketball net that same night while plowing two streets away from Fairview. That doesn’t give me a lot of comfort that he was scanning the sides of the road…..or at least that he was seeing what he needed to see.
In addition, Lally raised the point in T1 that Lucky gave a different timetable to the FBI than he did to MSP during interviews.
So, I’m reluctant to find his testimony as accurate.

Speculation here: thinking Lucky is looking down busily scanning the road sides while plowing not so much looking up thus hitting the basketball net?

 

[Luna20]

Mr Burgess did not submit false credentials to the court. His CV's said pursing a BA.

…for seventeen years

 

[Malleeboy]

I was thinking about Burgess evidence, I had two questions with it

1) Why would a car company have the slightest interest in recording when people do three-point turns?
2) Why was the time drift so much bigger at moment than any other measured interval? It is GPS linked so shouldn't drift that much.

My company has telematics on our work cars. It is to measure car activities which may lead to additional wear on the car.

1) Excessive acceleration. (Engine wear)
2) Braking too hard (Brakes/Tyre wear)
3) Turn too hard (Tyre wear)
4) Large bumps from either road from potholes, animals, or objects (suspension damage)

Karen's Lexus would have been under manufacturer warranty so the company wants to know if it has been driven excessively hard, which would impact their warranty liability.

Karen and John miss Fairview Rd, he calls it out, she brakes hard, turns abruptly into a driveway and bumps the car as she enters the driveway crossover slightly fast. This triggers the telematics. John and Karen look at the phone and confirm where they need to go. Karen then completes the three points turn to go back to Fairview.

IMHO Burgess has mixed correlation with causation, just because he can detect a trigger point near a three point turn in the phone data, he has presumed that the three-point turn per se is the trigger event. However, IMHO the swift turn and brake is a far more likely trigger for the Infotainment system but that being said it could have been any number of things, such as a pothole bump.

Someone else did suggest that the trigger event was the reverse camera being activated, which would also explain why occurred during a three-point turn. But Karen's car had 30 trigger points in time she had the car, hard to imagine she has backed up only 30 times. More likely it a harsh driving monitor. Furthermore, this idea would be bad for the Defence as it would remove that trigger event from being an impact with John, to just the reversing happening.

I'd be gob smacked, if the ARCCA guys can't answer this one. People doing FBI investigation would get prompt access to how car systems work from manufacturers.

 

[Malleeboy]

You guys writing “sidebah” greatly entertains me, thank you

As a non rhotic English speaker, it sounds perfectly fine.

 

[Pipersand]

Here we are again with divided opinions .... but in this trial, I think the prosecution appears to be more effective than before, and the defence more surgical in their cross. Love Alessi. Today, I thought Dr. Wolf's testimony and cross benefited both sides to some degree (for the defence, particularly the intoxicated slip and fall comment and the eye injury being unrelated). I loved Dr. Wolf's cappuccino comment - kind of think this will resonate with the jury! And sorry sunshineray, I like hearing your opinion but as a lawyer, I would be uncomfortable/uneasy/unhappy with the revelations that SB had not been absolutely honest in every single one of his prior communications regarding his bachelor's degree. Integrity matters, particularly with an expert rendering an opinion on anything.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Season 1? LOL
I know this seems like a reality series ...
Do you mean Trial 1?

Yep.
The Real Housewives of Canton.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Speculation here: thinking Lucky is looking down busily scanning the road sides while plowing not so much looking up thus hitting the basketball net?

No, I know that Lucky would be observing everywhere with his head constantly browsing from side to side and in 3D upwards and in a circular motion - scanning. I think he's been doing that job for a very long time and likely very good at it. He has bright lights that are far reaching ahead and to the sides. He testified he can see for long distances because of his seating and lights.
You know when I first started watching this case, I thought for sure Lucky had something to do with JOK being moved up onto the lawn from the side of the road. I had the image of him not seeing John's body and pushing him further up the lawn with the plow. But after seeing the testimony of Lucky, I believed him wholeheartedly. He seemed truthful with nothing to hide. And he seemed to be very confident in his role, knowing exactly what he's doing. Also, JOK had no bruising or broken bones. I think if JOK had been pushed up onto the lawn by a plow, he would have been bruised or scraped. So I gave up on that theory.
MOO

 

[missy1974]

I was thinking about Burgess evidence, I had two questions with it

1) Why would a car company have the slightest interest in recording when people do three-point turns?
2) Why was the time drift so much bigger at moment than any other measured interval? It is GPS linked so shouldn't drift that much.

My company has telematics on our work cars. It is to measure car activities which may lead to additional wear on the car.

1) Excessive acceleration. (Engine wear)
2) Braking too hard (Brakes/Tyre wear)
3) Turn too hard (Tyre wear)
4) Large bumps from either road from potholes, animals, or objects (suspension damage)

Karen's Lexus would have been under manufacturer warranty so the company wants to know if it has been driven excessively hard, which would impact their warranty liability.

Karen and John miss Fairview Rd, he calls it out, she brakes hard, turns abruptly into a driveway and bumps the car as she enters the driveway crossover slightly fast. This triggers the telematics. John and Karen look at the phone and confirm where they need to go. Karen then completes the three points turn to go back to Fairview.

IMHO Burgess has mixed correlation with causation, just because he can detect a trigger point near a three point turn in the phone data, he has presumed that the three-point turn per se is the trigger event. However, IMHO the swift turn and brake is a far more likely trigger for the Infotainment system but that being said it could have been any number of things, such as a pothole bump.

Someone else did suggest that the trigger event was the reverse camera being activated, which would also explain why occurred during a three-point turn. But Karen's car had 30 trigger points in time she had the car, hard to imagine she has backed up only 30 times. More likely it a harsh driving monitor. Furthermore, this idea would be bad for the Defence as it would remove that trigger event from being an impact with John, to just the reversing happening.

I'd be gob smacked, if the ARCCA guys can't answer this one. People doing FBI investigation would get prompt access to how car systems work from manufacturers.

Maybe it is my imagination, but the defense sure seems like they know something we don't know. In all their questions, their demeanor, everything. And I thought Brennan sounded really confident at the beginning of this trial... not so much the past week or so.

I do wonder what ARCCA's new report that was due May 7th says.

JMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

I'm just watching today's testimony of Dr Wolf.
He said something interesting about when a person feels pain, they naturally can make one or two movements automatically left over from cave man days as a defense to scare off wild animals. He called it decorticating and decerebrating. I wonder why he would even bring up that topic since it seemed unrelated to his testimony. He doesn't seem to know about the arm wounds that could be from an animal. It's just interesting he was talking about this which seemed to have nothing to do with what he was testifying to.
At 2:40

 

[Malleeboy]

I'm just watching today's testimony of Dr Wolf.
He said something interesting about when a person feels pain, they naturally can make one or two movements automatically left over from cave man days as a defense to scare off wild animals. He called it decorticating and decerebrating. I wonder why he would even bring up that topic since it seemed unrelated to his testimony. He doesn't seem to know about the arm wounds that could be from an animal. It's just interesting he was talking about this which seemed to have nothing to do with what he was testifying to.
At 2:40

I presume attempt to explain movement of apple steps after impact.

 

[Hazelnutty]

Was Jen McCabe caught lying in T1 or T2? ( or both) If T1, were there repercussions for her lying?

Sorry for off-topic! tia

 

[PamCake]

Not sure about Mass, but here in GA there are a ton of high school graduations this week. They may be allowing the extra days for those.
IMO Just a thought.

It’s Memorial Day weekend. Up here in New England it’s like the “gateway to summer”, so a big 3-day holiday weekend. And, sometimes people make it into a 4-day weekend…

 

[PamCake]

Cape traffic is always bad, but on a holiday weekend it is 10 times worse. The lucky ones get on the road early on Friday to beat the rush. The really lucky ones don’t have to work on Thursday.
I just don’t get a 5 day vacation in the middle of the trial.

I’ve heard the judge has a house on the cape.

 

[missy1974]

Was Jen McCabe caught lying in T1 or T2? ( or both) If T1, were there repercussions for her lying?

Sorry for off-topic! tia

She was caught "mis-remembering" in both.

No, no repercussions.

I think it is really rare to have perjury charges, even when everyone knows a person is lying. It always seems to be a threat or used as leverage to get whatever the goal is, whether it be, make someone look better, deny something happened, or even jailhouse snitches.

But that is JMO.