MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #29 Retrial

[kuromiiiilove]

Pretty obvious JO never made it into the house. KR even said she never saw him go in the house...well that is until she was arrested, then her story changed. Dr. Wolf's testimony today backed that up, IMO. JO had head/brain injuries NOT caused by a ridged object nor a hit with something hard like a baseball bat etc...to the head from a heavy object. JO's injury had ALL the earmarks of a classic falling backwards with some gravitational velocity and hitting the back of his head on a flat hard surface...a blunt injury, not at all what the defense has theorized, MO.

That’s a bold interpretation, but let’s get back to what was actually said.

-Karen Read saying she “didn’t see John go in” is not the same as “he didn’t go in.” She never claimed to see anything definitive that night. She was sitting in her car. She didn’t see him go in, but neither did she say he didn’t. That’s a deliberate distortion of her words.
-The only Commonwealth witness to testify that “he didn’t go in” was Jennifer McCabe. A witness who:

• Lied to the FBI about her identity + calls she made while they were waiting to be let into her house
• Lied about her 2:27am Google search
• Lied about her stop at 34 Fairview en route to Lank’s
• Didn’t even tell the initial investigators about the alleged ‘I hit him’ statement
• Searched ‘hos long to die in cold’ at 2:27 am on 1/29/22

These are not minor details. These are credibility-killers.
-As for Dr. Wolf, well, what about him? He didn’t examine the body, didn’t examine the wound, didn’t examine the brain. He gave a speculative opinion based on photos and secondhand records. Meanwhile, ME Dr. Bello (who DID examine the body) noted no grass, no gravel, no dirt in John’s wounds. Pretty odd for a “fall on the lawn,” no?

All MOO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Also in T1, AJ got JM to admit that she never told the Grand Jury that KR said "I hit him" 3x
imo

Excellent find from the history @Izzylizzy …….! IANAL ….. and FWIW propose to the defense that if necessary, they should plan to show that prior testimony of JMcC testifying in that trial during their case in this trial if needed. Hoping it would not be disallowed.

It would IMO be akin to the CW playing all of the ‘statements’ made by KR in the second trial when e.g. she was being recorded for a question or sit down discussion on this case. Difference being that KR was not under oath or testifying before the court. MOO

 

[bobbymkii]

Excellent find from the history @Izzylizzy …….! IANAL ….. and FWIW propose to the defense that if necessary, they should plan to show that prior testimony of JMcC testifying in that trial during their case in this trial if needed. Hoping it would not be disallowed.

It would IMO be akin to the CW playing all of the ‘statements’ made by KR in the second trial when e.g. she was being recorded for a question or sit down discussion on this case. Difference being that KR was not under oath or testifying before the court. MOO

IMO the only mistake Jackson made in his otherwise outstanding closing argument from the first trial is that he didn't address this alleged significant comment made by Karen Read of "I hit him, I hit him..." only for Lally to suddenly become audible for the first time in the whole trial and run with it throughout his speech, without the possibility of rebuttal by the defense.

Whenever I hear those three words, all that comes to mind is this:

Did I hit him?
Could I have hit him?

JMO

 

[mzmarymac]

IMO the only mistake Jackson made in his otherwise outstanding closing argument from the first trial is that he didn't address this alleged significant comment made by Karen Read of "I hit him, I hit him..." only for Lally to suddenly become audible for the first time in the whole trial and run with it throughout his speech, without the possibility of rebuttal by the defense.

Whenever I hear those three words, all that comes to mind is this:

Did I hit him?
Could I have hit him?

JMO

Or even plain ole "I hit him?"

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

This post lands at random.

Please stop the "you this" and "you that" personalizing directed toward other members.

We aren't here to attack others who hold a view that is different with ours. Just respectfully respond with why you disagree, without the personalizing or your post will be snipped or removed. As Sweet Sugar Brown would say, "Ain't nobody got time for that".

 

[Younger Sister]

Interesting how the judge was constantly pushing the defense during rebuttal to hurry along today and then surprisingly state that the trial is so far ahead of schedule that there will be no court on Thursday, Friday and Monday. Perhaps the CW needs time to regroup since their presentation is coming up short IMO. hmmm

 

[JasmineD]

Pretty obvious JO never made it into the house. KR even said she never saw him go in the house...

Who do you think the tall man was that Brian Higgins told the grand jury he saw walk into the house after he arrived?

 

[Amber29]

Interesting how the judge was constantly pushing the defense during rebuttal to hurry along today and then surprisingly state that the trial is so far ahead of schedule that there will be no court on Thursday, Friday and Monday. Perhaps the CW needs time to regroup since their presentation is coming up short IMO. hmmm

It’s crazy to me because if they are so far ahead of schedule, great let’s get this wrapped up sooner than expected. Not take 5 days of break. These jurors would probably like to get back to their jobs/lives.

 

[waldojabba]

Cape traffic is always bad, but on a holiday weekend it is 10 times worse. The lucky ones get on the road early on Friday to beat the rush. The really lucky ones don’t have to work on Thursday.
I just don’t get a 5 day vacation in the middle of the trial.

I dont think there is anything sinister about it - its just poor timing/witness management by Brennan/Lally. When the judge asked Brennan last week if Dr Welcher would be testifying this week he said either the end of the week or Tuesday after the holiday. I thought it sounded like it would be the Tuesday after Memorial Day the way he phrased it.
If I think about it there really has not been any testimony showing that John was hit by a car. Isn't that why we are here?
I do think Dr Welcher will definitely show up. He may not base his report on Shanon's to avoid "contamination" but he will have some opinion and testify to it.
The funny thing is he is not supposed to know anything about Shanons testimony - so we shall see I assume on Tuesday
I am not on the Cape but I can hear the sound of the pop tops coming off the White Claws.
JMO

 

[Teche]

Courts over for the day.
No court Thurs & Fri.

Probably closed Monday. Isn't Monday Memorial Day?

 

[sunshineray]

Would a cement basement floor or a cement garage floor qualify as something hard?

Would the laceration above his right eye that Dr. Wolf said was NOT related to the back head injury BE from blunt force trauma of some sort?

Would that strike to above his right eye result in him falling backwards, as described by Dr. Wolf said, is very common with drunk people?

Would JOK having a blood alcohol level of .28 qualify him as being a drunk person?

I don't think we know what their theory is as of right now, other than he got into a fight and fell onto something.

After typing this out, I absolutely see why Alessi did not have many questions for him.

Absolutely no evidence of any of that happening and there was some very tangible evidence today with Ms Manley's testimony on the red plastic bits on JO's clothes that match the red plastic from KR's tail light. Pretty conclusively, MO

That small cut could have been from one of the many pieces of glass. MO

Alessi is not the brightest of lawyers, IMO. He either blusters at witnesses or acts very abesent-minded and unorganized while trying to collect his thoughts to ask questions. It's quite agonizing to watch sometimes. AJMO

 

[Maat99]

This might be a good time for the mods to repost their Best Practices advice

 

[Forest_Wood]

Dbm

 

[Izzylizzy]

Live

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This comment from BNK had me laughing.

 

[sunshineray]

That’s a bold interpretation, but let’s get back to what was actually said.

-Karen Read saying she “didn’t see John go in” is not the same as “he didn’t go in.” She never claimed to see anything definitive that night. She was sitting in her car. She didn’t see him go in, but neither did she say he didn’t. That’s a deliberate distortion of her words.
-The only Commonwealth witness to testify that “he didn’t go in” was Jennifer McCabe. A witness who:

• Lied to the FBI about her identity + calls she made while they were waiting to be let into her house
• Lied about her 2:27am Google search
• Lied about her stop at 34 Fairview en route to Lank’s
• Didn’t even tell the initial investigators about the alleged ‘I hit him’ statement
• Searched ‘hos long to die in cold’ at 2:27 am on 1/29/22

These are not minor details. These are credibility-killers.
-As for Dr. Wolf, well, what about him? He didn’t examine the body, didn’t examine the wound, didn’t examine the brain. He gave a speculative opinion based on photos and secondhand records. Meanwhile, ME Dr. Bello (who DID examine the body) noted no grass, no gravel, no dirt in John’s wounds. Pretty odd for a “fall on the lawn,” no?

All MOO

But I suppose KR saying she saw JO go into the house, very definitively, in her documentary filmed during her first trial is the gospel truth though? Does once a liar, always a liar apply to KR? KR talked a lot in that documentary.

Dr. Wolf reviewing JO's injuries, considering his VERY extensive experience with head/brain injuries, was I'm sure very helpful to the jury. He really knew with details what logically happened as apposed to things that didn't happen to cause JO's head injury. If only KR had called JM sooner, JO may have recovered...but tgat's hindsight. A 30% chance, after tramatuc brain injury, is better than none. That's what he got when KR left him there in a snow, no chance. I don't believe it was intentional but she did cause his injuries while driving drunk, AJMO

You've got a lot of your information wrong, IMO, about JM. It's all been rehashed so very much, I'm not going to address it again as I believe JM was a truthful witness.

John had clothes on and there was evidence on his clothes, testified to today by Ms. Hanley.

 

[sunshineray]

Who do you think the tall man was that Brian Higgins told the grand jury he saw walk into the house after he arrived?

Someone else at the party?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Excellent find from the history @Izzylizzy …….! IANAL ….. and FWIW propose to the defense that if necessary, they should plan to show that prior testimony of JMcC testifying in that trial during their case in this trial if needed. Hoping it would not be disallowed.

It would IMO be akin to the CW playing all of the ‘statements’ made by KR in the second trial when e.g. she was being recorded for a question or sit down discussion on this case. Difference being that KR was not under oath or testifying before the court. MOO

T1.
AJ's exchange with JM takes only 2 mins 45 secs.
BC ends it with cutting off AJ but he got the goods he was looking for.
I didn't know that JM appeared before more than one Grand Jury.
imo

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[tara83]

But I suppose KR saying she saw JO go into the house, very definitively, in her documentary filmed during her first trial is the gospel truth though? Does once a liar, always a liar apply to KR? KR talked a lot in that documentary.

Dr. Wolf reviewing JO's injuries, considering his VERY extensive experience with head/brain injuries, was I'm sure very helpful to the jury. He really knew with details what logically happened as apposed to things that didn't happen to cause JO's head injury. If only KR had called JM sooner, JO may have recovered...but tgat's hindsight. A 30% chance, after tramatuc brain injury, is better than none. That's what he got when KR left him there in a snow, no chance. I don't believe it was intentional but she did cause his injuries while driving drunk, AJMO

You've got a lot of your information wrong, IMO, about JM. It's all been rehashed so very much, I'm not going to address it again as I believe JM was a truthful witness.

John had clothes on and there was evidence on his clothes, testified to today by Ms. Hanley.

So where is the proof that John was even hit by a car?

 

[Recidivist]

But I suppose KR saying she saw JO go into the house, very definitively, in her documentary filmed during her first trial is the gospel truth though? Does once a liar, always a liar apply to KR? KR talked a lot in that documentary.

Dr. Wolf reviewing JO's injuries, considering his VERY extensive experience with head/brain injuries, was I'm sure very helpful to the jury. He really knew with details what logically happened as apposed to things that didn't happen to cause JO's head injury. If only KR had called JM sooner, JO may have recovered...but tgat's hindsight. A 30% chance, after tramatuc brain injury, is better than none. That's what he got when KR left him there in a snow, no chance. I don't believe it was intentional but she did cause his injuries while driving drunk, AJMO

You've got a lot of your information wrong, IMO, about JM. It's all been rehashed so very much, I'm not going to address it again as I believe JM was a truthful witness.

John had clothes on and there was evidence on his clothes, testified to today by Ms. Hanley.

If only KR had called JM sooner, he may have recovered? No one in that household could be bothered to even go outside to their front lawn. Jen didn't try. None of them lifted a finger to help.

 

[Malleeboy]

-He also bled from his mouth and vomited....Where did that happen?


JMO where and as applicable...

Not just bleeding, bleeding that flowed down his body, if you are flat your blood flows off you head to the ground not down to your shirt. Blood flowing down almost always means being vertical. Blood splatter on shoes would have a similar implications.