MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #31 Retrial

[missy1974]

If he didn't intentionally mishandle this investigation ("because he's a cop too") then many of his prior investigations should be reopened, given he must be a fairly unskilled and/or sloppy investigator whose conclusions should not be trusted.

Every criminal right now that was convicted that Proctor was the investigator, is jumping on this, as they should. But I think this case is different, not every case involved a deceased BPD officer, found on a BPD officers front lawn, after drinking with a bunch of other LEO's or people that have connections with LE agencies/officers.

Do I think Proctor did nefarious things and said some nasty things about KR? yep I do. Do I think he did that in every case he ever investigated? no, I don't. This case was closer to home and I believe was not only about JOK, but also about all the other officers/family members involved. But JMO.

 

[Soulmagent]

ohhh do tell LOL No one wants to rely on appeals, but geesh some of these rulings just seem, uhmm different, but different rules in different states.

I was all about , what the state got to say?
it's a CW state ,Common wealth. Its a thing to not love the judge ,unless you know the judge on a personal level.
I am fighter , both sides of a fence. Because level the fields and Play fair.
This CW has been entirely gross and makes me think the other CW states need more government . And That request makeS me mad at my own self. If this is a CW , i AM GOING TO STOP VOTING FOR IT.

p.s / i will not have to tell you , you already have hit points on the affair.

 

[lohrtabitha]

If he didn't intentionally mishandle this investigation ("because he's a cop too") then many of his prior investigations should be reopened, given he must be a fairly unskilled and/or sloppy investigator whose conclusions should not be trusted.

A few of them are being opened again. I posted the link I believe a week or so ago.

 

[missy1974]

on the topic of Proctor...

He is no longer a LEO and definitely no longer on this case lol I's been said that the FBI investigation of the investigation is closed, but is it? and could it be reopened?

Could Proctor get up there and plead the 5th?

 

[lohrtabitha]

If he didn't intentionally mishandle this investigation ("because he's a cop too") then many of his prior investigations should be reopened, given he must be a fairly unskilled and/or sloppy investigator whose conclusions should not be trusted.

Here you go. We don't know the breadth of how many will be looked at again but I'm certain some will.

Trooper fallout: List of murder cases that could rely on Proctor testimony grows

The list of murder cases around the Boston area that could rely on the testimony of an embattled Massachusetts State Police trooper continues to grow. And that poses a big question: Will Michael Proctor’s damaged credibility prevent prosecutors from proving their cases to a jury? On Thursday...

www.nbcboston.com

 

[jepop]

IMO it’s not reasonable to believe a dog caused those arm injuries. They’re abrasions.
A dog would leave DNA & hair and dogs have a lower jaw. There are no punctures one would expect.

You are entitled to your lay person's opinion, but I think it is unsupported factually and on very shaky ground. You and I are not experts but there is expert evidence from trial 1 which speaks to these wounds. It is quite reasonable to believe these wounds are the result of an encounter with a dog. ie

1)The ME could not explain or account for the arm wounds

2) In trial x1 the cw never produced one medical witness to explain them.

3) OTOH, the defense produced two experts in trial x1 who opined the wounds were consistent with scratches and one, possibly two "glancing" bite marks of a dog, probably a large dog. The wounds are symmetrical and patterned. The CW did not counter these witnesses in any way, shape or form.

3) A large German shepherd lived at at the location where JOK died. This dog was known to have issues with being aggressive

4) One cw witness in trial x1 who testified about DNA, conceded briefly on cross that dog claws are not known to be good transferers of DNA. Pig DNA however, was swabbed from JOK's shirt ( dog food/snacks often include pig flesh). In this trial we can expect far more detailed testimony about dog scratches and glancing bites from the defense's experts.

5,) Again, in this trial the CW has produced no expert medical witnesses to explain the arm wounds but the defense has several very well qualified experts lined up.

6) There were no tail light pieces in the wounds, the wounds themselves were never swabbed by the ME. There was no blood or skin on the outer or inner areas of the damaged tail light. There was no blood or biological material from the various tail light shards

Even with the defense experts yet to testify in this trial, moo dog scratches and a probable glancing bite is a far, far more reasonable explanation for the arm wounds than random tail light pieces.

The cw just finished their case in chief and throughout offered no medical expert who could explain the arm wounds. Infact they elicited no testimony about them from either of the two Medicos who were called.
IMO.

 

[Soulmagent]

on the topic of Proctor...

He is no longer a LEO and definitely no longer on this case lol I's been said that the FBI investigation of the investigation is closed, but is it? and could it be reopened?

Could Proctor get up there and plead the 5th?

Please tell me ,he is not a district manager of a waffle house some where, I got complaints from HR.

I am going to work for Denny's Soon.

 

[lohrtabitha]

Every criminal right now that was convicted that Proctor was the investigator, is jumping on this, as they should. But I think this case is different, not every case involved a deceased BPD officer, found on a BPD officers front lawn, after drinking with a bunch of other LEO's or people that have connections with LE agencies/officers.

Do I think Proctor did nefarious things and said some nasty things about KR? yep I do. Do I think he did that in every case he ever investigated? no, I don't. This case was closer to home and I believe was not only about JOK, but also about all the other officers/family members involved. But JMO.

Yes, maybe not in every single case. However, I don't believe this to be the first where he did unjust and corrupt things. This was just the first where he goy caught red-handed by Team Jackson! It's a behavioral pattern with Proctor. If it wasn't squashed with this case, he would have kept doing his evil. As far as his disgusting attitude towards women, I doubt that will ever change. Nor will his misconceptions of him being above the law. Mo

 

[arielilane]

Not a fan of defending MP, but I want to clear something up. MP did not say "pin it on the girl" as DY stated.

Defense needs to call MP - what are they afraid of... attorney client text messages...


Timestamp 7:22:28
Proctor's words about why he did or didn't interview people separately why he waited for instance a year and a half to interview a plow driver who was out there on January 29th uh why he treated some people with kid gloves and other people with with brass knuckles uh he's stating it in these text messages she's going to go down for this we're going to
he's pin it on the girl

Karen Read’s defense lawyer told a Massachusetts jury that the murder trial for the death of her cop boyfriend is an elaborate setup to “pin it on the girl,” in order to protect the officer’s police buddies.

“Pick your patsy, pin it on the girl,” Read’s lawyer Alan Jackson told a jury in Norfolk Superior Court in Dedham, Mass., during closing arguments Tuesday.

Karen Read’s lawyer claims murder trial for death of cop boyfriend is an elaborate frame-up: ‘Pin it on the girl’

But prosecutor Adam Lally, during his closing, said four witnesses testified at trial that Read told first responders, “I hit him, I hit him, I hit him, I hit him.”

nypost.com

6/25/2024

 

[Warwick7]

Not a fan of defending MP, but I want to clear something up. MP did not say "pin it on the girl" as DY stated.

Defense needs to call MP - what are they afraid of... attorney client text messages...


Timestamp 7:22:28
Proctor's words about why he did or didn't interview people separately why he waited for instance a year and a half to interview a plow driver who was out there on January 29th uh why he treated some people with kid gloves and other people with with brass knuckles uh he's stating it in these text messages she's going to go down for this we're going to
he's pin it on the girl

Karen Read’s defense lawyer told a Massachusetts jury that the murder trial for the death of her cop boyfriend is an elaborate setup to “pin it on the girl,” in order to protect the officer’s police buddies.

“Pick your patsy, pin it on the girl,” Read’s lawyer Alan Jackson told a jury in Norfolk Superior Court in Dedham, Mass., during closing arguments Tuesday.

Karen Read’s lawyer claims murder trial for death of cop boyfriend is an elaborate frame-up: ‘Pin it on the girl’

But prosecutor Adam Lally, during his closing, said four witnesses testified at trial that Read told first responders, “I hit him, I hit him, I hit him, I hit him.”

nypost.com

6/25/2024

I don't recall anyone saying he did.

 

[tara83]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed.>

Yet the CW's own witness ME doesn't see evidence of being hit by a car. Interesting.....

 

[arielilane]

The defense’s witness did not test or validate anything, he did not write a single report and he is not ACTAR certified. He admitted that he only did what Jackson asked him to do. So why did defense start w/this witness as their first witness. According to defendant (days earlier) this will be a more robust defense than last trial. Still early but not seeing an beyond a reasonable doubt.

In addition, they cant do their own testing because they know the test will reveal truth. moo

The defendant already stated "The data is what the data is."

Karen Read's defense begins with engineer who analyzes crash data

Defense attorneys called their first witness on Friday after a motion to dismiss the case was promptly denied.

www.wcvb.com

5/30/2025 12:19:30
DiSogra says he did not personally download data or test Read's car. Says he did no testing. Says his job was "to provide clarity" for his client Mr Jackson. DiSogra says he did not review Ian Whiffin's report or Jessica Hyde's report. "You're just critiquing written reports?" Brennan asks. "Correct," DiSogra says.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yet the CW's own witness ME doesn't see evidence of being hit by a car. Interesting.....

Didn’t see evidence of being beat to death in a fight either - so IMO her opinion is worthless

 

[themonk]

CW's own witness ME: 'I don't see evidence of being hit by a car.'

ARCCA experts: 'We don't see evidence of being hit by a car.'

Armchair detectives: 'She hit him with a car.'

 

[Linda7NJ]

CW's own witness ME: 'I don't see evidence of being hit by a car.'

ARCCA experts: 'We don't see evidence of being hit by a car.'

Armchair detectives: 'She hit him with a car.'

The State of Massachusetts “She hit him with a car”

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

BBM
1. Incorrect. The ME stated clearly his injuries were not consistent with being hit by a car.

2. Incorrect. Yes, a ME is qualified to give an opinion on the causing of his injuries, especially since it involved a sudden, unexpected, or suspicious death. ME's are trained forensic pathologists (which she is) with expertise in determining the cause and manner of death, including injuries sustained.

Incorrect.

The ME stated clearly she examined John's legs and saw no evidence of an impact site. Only on his legs.

She was then asked if a bruise on John's knee was consistent with a side-swipe impact and she testified it could be. That is not ruling out a sideswipe impact.


As regards being able to determine cause of his injuries (beyond blunt force trauma and hypothermia) she said this -

Mr Alessi Q: What alternative scenarios did you look at, if any, for the cause or manner of death of Mr O’Keefe?

A: At the time of the autopsy, I documented injuries and signs of hypothermia. I was provided with a set of circumstances and at the end of the investigation, or my, you know, timeline, I concluded on the cause but I did not conclude or I did not determine a manner. The manner would be the circumstances you are speaking about, whether I considered other causes, or circumstances, that’s not how it works. I don’t come up with hypothetical scenarios on how those injuries occur.

timestamp 3.37.33

 

[jepop]

The defense’s witness did not test or validate anything, he did not write a single report and he is not ACTAR certified. He admitted that he only did what Jackson asked him to do. So why did defense start w/this witness as their first witness. According to defendant (days earlier) this will be a more robust defense than last trial. Still early but not seeing an beyond a reasonable doubt.

In addition, they cant do their own testing because they know the test will reveal truth. moo

The defendant already stated "The data is what the data is."

Karen Read's defense begins with engineer who analyzes crash data

Defense attorneys called their first witness on Friday after a motion to dismiss the case was promptly denied.

www.wcvb.com

5/30/2025 12:19:30
DiSogra says he did not personally download data or test Read's car. Says he did no testing. Says his job was "to provide clarity" for his client Mr Jackson. DiSogra says he did not review Ian Whiffin's report or Jessica Hyde's report. "You're just critiquing written reports?" Brennan asks. "Correct," DiSogra says.

To answer your question and IMO, the defense started with this witness to demonstrate the flaws and assumptions inherent in Burgess' and Welcher's methodology. The testimony was successfully elicited, was undamaged on cross, and the point made in a way that was understandable to the average juror. Jmo

The witness laid the foundation or circumstances from which ARCCA's experts will testify to seal for the jury the defense's primary point; JOK was not hit by KR's Lexus, or any other vehicle for that matter. Jmo

 

[tara83]

Didn’t see evidence of being beat to death in a fight either - so IMO her opinion is worthless

Defense doesn't have to prove who killed him. They have to show reasonable doubt and the ME clearly shows that.

 

[louvillian08]

The defense’s witness did not test or validate anything, he did not write a single report and he is not ACTAR certified. He admitted that he only did what Jackson asked him to do. So why did defense start w/this witness as their first witness. According to defendant (days earlier) this will be a more robust defense than last trial. Still early but not seeing an beyond a reasonable doubt.

In addition, they cant do their own testing because they know the test will reveal truth. moo

The defendant already stated "The data is what the data is."

Karen Read's defense begins with engineer who analyzes crash data

Defense attorneys called their first witness on Friday after a motion to dismiss the case was promptly denied.

www.wcvb.com

5/30/2025 12:19:30
DiSogra says he did not personally download data or test Read's car. Says he did no testing. Says his job was "to provide clarity" for his client Mr Jackson. DiSogra says he did not review Ian Whiffin's report or Jessica Hyde's report. "You're just critiquing written reports?" Brennan asks. "Correct," DiSogra says.

No one can download new data off the Lexus because the CW’s first expert who did the initial chip off procedure destroyed it. Welcher and Burgess had zero new information from the car, even though the CW claimed for months they had new “bombshell” data. They lied.

 

[Linda7NJ]

No one can download new data off the Lexus because the CW’s first expert who did the initial chip off procedure destroyed it. Welcher and Burgess had zero new information from the car, even though the CW claimed for months they had new “bombshell” data. They lied.

The defense expert did the first chip off. Nothing was destroyed.
Welcher & Burgess found time stamps & they useful for the timeframe
That was the new information


IMO