MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #31 Retrial

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  • #161
Yes, there's no denying that at this stage they've conceded that 1162 was Fairview, by engaging their witness in the exercise of calculating clock variances, between the Lexus and John's phone.

It seems it was a very late decision, last Sunday, to even call DiSogra to prepare to testify. I think the only reason they called him was because there is no way to avoid that data now, and they may as well get a stab at trying to confuse the jury as to whether John locked his phone after the triggering event, using irrelevant data.

So now the jury has to ignore this high speed reverse maneuver as well as all the evidence of a collision. John's phone data coinciding with the Lexus trigger event, Karen saying that is where she last saw him, also expecting to find him there, not asking Jen whether John made it inside the house or being at all curious as to what time John left the party if she really thought he made it inside, his bent arm and area of arm injury lining up to the taillight, broken shards of glass and plastic in the road and his broken bar glass with him, his shoe at the kerb, his cap, his catastrophic backwards fall and head injuries, the fragments in his sleeve, his DNA on the taillight housing, his phone not moving again and getting colder, his hypothermia, Karen asking if he could survive after being there for many hours, and late change of her story which is an obvious lie that she saw him walk up the drive and get to the door. Also her staging attempt for taillight damage, reversing into John's car at 0.7 mph with her back up warning system bleeping away, and saying he got hit by a plow before she even left Meadows.

All MOO

BIB Yeah I noticed that as well.

Mr Alessi asked the Judge for 4 extra days to rework his experts following her ruling on the supplementary Burgess report. But then he wasted over a week before telling DiSorga what they wanted. Presumably so that they could see Welcher's evidence in chief first?

MOO
 
  • #162
Does it bother you at all that the CW was scared to call the lead investigator in the case?

After Proctor's public humiliation and mishandling of the investigation, the cw knows not to present him as the lead detective in their case against KR. JMOO
 
  • #163
I wonder if the defence has intel on Proctor’s behaviour right now and that’s why they won’t call him.
In Peter's video today he praised KR's defense team yet said they made 2 mistakes in his opinion.

1. Letting her do media interviews ( we don't know though that they approved them.)
2. Not calling Proctor.
 
  • #164
True.
Still Doesn’t negate the point I made.

IMO
The point is he mishandled the entire investigation along with his unacceptable behavior. JMOO
 
  • #165
Just bringing this over @missy1974



He doesn't say 1164 was in their possession. 1165 and 1166 are tow truck on and off - i.e very short movement of the vehicle.

In any event, yesterday DiSorga himself on cross says each key cycle is time stamped in the infotainment system. Later on he proceeds to argue about those very timestamps and whether they are 3 seconds out!

Brennan: The power log on and off gives you the exact data & time you can match to the techstream data does it not?

DiSogra: Yes it does




What I mean about jazz hands is they have no data / forensic argument against 1162 being the Fairview trip.

Instead they are setting up to say "she would have crashed on the lawn!", "we don't know exactly where she started reversing", "the reverse comes a few seconds too soon!"

I tip my hat to Alessi's inventiveness here, but big picture it doesn't seem great that they have conceded (up to this point), that the "data is the data" and thus the defendant did engage in the high speed reversing manoeuvre on the Fairview trip. And they have avoided revealing that for months, though they message in real time to their surrogates.

Timecode: Exchange on cross at approx 3.29



Your take on DiSogra's testimony, is not the same as mine haha

And your take that the defense is playing with the times, I see it as the CW playing with them.

I don't think we are alone in our thoughts, it's just what we understand from the info we have.

What really matters is.... what does the jury think right now?

I don't think that the CW has made it clear at all, if in fact it is 100% that key cycle, why not have someone show the data and prove it? Maybe either side will not prove it one way or the other, they have both said what they think, but in the end, isn't it up to the CW to prove it?


Can you at least agree with me now that DiSogra did NOT do his own numbers? all his data was from Burgess and Welcher's reports? He just put it into one report and showed them. THAT was clear to me yesterday, Brennan's repeated questions helped hit that home. ;)

Do you think ARCCA will give more detail about the techstream data? We know that they will testify to the same stuff they did last time.. and then they will have a reply to Welcher's report.
 
  • #166
IMO it was strategic
If strategic means they were scared to show he had extreme bias and was out to get KR I can agree with you.
 
  • #167
b was out of control as a person even. Wasn't getting his answers he wanted and the witness being a cool, calm and sure of his answers infuriated him. It was insane and really hope the jury saw the very URGENT need for the prosecution to get what they need no matter the histrionics from their atty representing them. Get what the need is the key sentence. Not truth. IMO
 
  • #168
Why would Proctor display such animosity towards Karen? Those texts reveal he 100% believed she hit him.

IMO
Why would he is a good question.

One doesn't use derogatory and degrading comments about someone they like.

 
  • #169
"And they have avoided revealing that for months, though they message in real time to their surrogates."

Quoting from your post above

The above reads as if you are stating some sort of fact. This is an opinion I believe and a comment, a dig actually, at Karen Read's defense, "surrogates" being a term I don't think is used in MSM reporting in this case. Just wanted to get that straight for the benefit of others reading here who may not have a lot of back ground.

ahhh I missed that, and I don't even know what it means LOL @mrjitty can you explain?

I do know that we have some people/reporters that are firmly planted on either side of the fence, I try my best to avoid their opinions, although that is hard sometimes lol (Keep in mind.. I did not watch all of Season 1, and I have not followed along the past year before this trial started, so I am playing catch up a lot of the time)
 
  • #170
RSBM

I think it is very hard, if not impossible, for some folks to accept the idea that corruption is commonplace in the systems that exist to supposedly 'serve and protect' them.
I think the corruption is in full view on this case. I do believe Karen hit John with her car, and I also believe that Trooper Proctor was going to ensure a conviction by “enhancing” the evidence. I believe a blue wall formed around the Albert’s to protect them from even the slightest investigation. And I believe Higgins was up to no good when he was skulking around Canton PD in the wee hours of the morning. Something indeed does stink with the Canton/Boston/Mass law enforcement.
 
  • #171
I agree, I’ve said it before but I think just-world fallacy plays a huge role in this case (the belief that bad things only happen to bad people, and that the legal system naturally sorts good from the guilty). People want to believe that Karen must have done something wrong, because it’s more comfortable than accepting the alternative, that an innocent woman could be framed, railroaded, or blamed to protect others in positions of power.

This bias shows up when people dismiss evidence of police misconduct, or when they brush off inconsistencies in the timeline, DNA questions, or deleted phone records, because facing the full weight of the alternative is disturbing. It means acknowledging that corruption and coverups can happen in real life, not just in movies. But I think believing in justice doesn’t mean assuming the system always gets it right. In fact, true belief in justice means being willing to question the system when it appears to go off the rails. MOO.

This is a great post.

I think having healthy scepticism when someone is charged or during a trial is good, The system is not perfect, LE is not perfect, this stuff does happen and it does seem that Mass. has some serious issues, and the thought that she was railroaded does not seem to be out of the realm of possibilities there IMO

I typically only follow trials when there appears to be questions about what happened, I will watch other trials, but when it's pretty clear what happened, there is nothing to "sleuth", and I won't follow along as closely because it takes way too much time LOL I am fully in "KR trial mode" right now... it's getting in the way of my yard work LOL

all JMO
 
  • #172
@bobbymkii thank you for reminding me of the "shame on you sir" comment by AJ and Karen's priceless expression while she looks that corrupt misogynist right in the eyes. LOVE it.
 
  • #173
I wonder if the defence has intel on Proctor’s behaviour right now and that’s why they won’t call him.
Physical and/or mental issues?
 
  • #174
In Peter's video today he praised KR's defense team yet said they made 2 mistakes in his opinion.

1. Letting her do media interviews ( we don't know though that they approved them.)
2. Not calling Proctor.
I mean they appear in the documentary, I can’t help but assume they approved her doing them. IMO
 
  • #175
BIB Yeah I noticed that as well.

Mr Alessi asked the Judge for 4 extra days to rework his experts following her ruling on the supplementary Burgess report. But then he wasted over a week before telling DiSorga what they wanted. Presumably so that they could see Welcher's evidence in chief first?

MOO
IIRC DiSogra submitted his amended report BEFORE Welcher testified. Welcher's first day of testimony was the 27th, DiSogra updated his slides on the 25th (a Sunday) after talking to Jackson according to his testimony.

I don't think it's unreasonable that he updated something, considering that Burgess submitted an amended report on May 8th. Why wouldn't DiSogra do an amendement too, considering the only data he used WAS Burgess' and Welcher's? If they changed, his would have to too IMO
 
  • #176
In Peter's video today he praised KR's defense team yet said they made 2 mistakes in his opinion.

1. Letting her do media interviews ( we don't know though that they approved them.)
2. Not calling Proctor.
I’m watching now. I think they may have to call him if the judge says the friend can’t testify.
 
  • #177
The point is he mishandled the entire investigation along with his unacceptable behavior. JMOO

If he didn't intentionally mishandle this investigation ("because he's a cop too") then many of his prior investigations should be reopened, given he must be a fairly unskilled and/or sloppy investigator whose conclusions should not be trusted.
 
  • #178
A
In Peter's video today he praised KR's defense team yet said they made 2 mistakes in his opinion.

1. Letting her do media interviews ( we don't know though that they approved them.)
2. Not calling Proctor.
I see different mistakes , Imma keep them to myself until the verdict. One is huge and the appeal issues are going to be monument -tus.
It is kinda weird how no one is talking about the front face.
 
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  • #179
It appears the defense was ordered to give the CW a summary of their oral communications.

IMO if I was the defense, I would be as vague as possible because it seems that Brennan has no idea what she will say.

Apparently she is the female officer that we see in sallyport videos, she was working the morning that JOK was found at 34 Fairview, and there is speculation that she is the officer that saw Brian Higgens and Burkowitz in the sallyport during the time that video cuts out.

link to an April 2024 hearing where Yanetti mentions this is linked
we have a law enforcement witness, who will testify to seeing Chief Kenneth Burkowitz and Brian Higgins alone with Karen Read's vehicle on the afternoon of January 29th of 2022 for quote 'a wildly long time' .... we and we've now received video surveillance from the Canton Police Department that shows that there is an interior camera in that sallyport garage where the car was housed but in during the exact time that that third- party officer indicates that burwitz and Higgins were in the sallyport together the video mysteriously cuts out for 42 minutes between 5:08 between 5:08 and 5:50 p.m.


link to YB's testimony from this trial about that video that cuts out from 5:07pm - 5:50pm. Not sure why the defense didn't call her in the first trial, I think she was a Canton officer in Jan 22, but is now a BPD Officer.

All JMO.


1748708064305.webp
 
  • #180
A

I see different mistakes , Imma keep them to myself until the verdict. One is huge and the appeal issues are going to be monument -tus.
It is kinda weird how no one is talking about the front face.
ohhh do tell LOL No one wants to rely on appeals, but geesh some of these rulings just seem, uhmm different, but different rules in different states.
 
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