MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #31 Retrial

[KSwizzle]

The fact that Aperture, and this is outside their lying about reusmes and experience, didn't get a second Lexus, or at least TRY to find a second Lexus to see if the infotainment would have the same delays/timers/etc as brought up by the defense witness shows a huge lack of scientific awareness. There was no control, period, how do we know that is how KR's Lexus would act, how am I supposed to believe any Lexus would act like that let alone KR's if you have nothing to compare it to

This trial is going to be G or hung, I'm leaning more to NG but sliding more towards hung

They'll try it a third time and waste even more money for another hung jury at best

 

[KSwizzle]

Judge Cannone wants to be famous, this is/was her baby but she's only going to be infamous and known for wasting money and her extreme bias towards the CW, MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

The fact that Aperture, and this is outside their lying about reusmes and experience, didn't get a second Lexus, or at least TRY to find a second Lexus to see if the infotainment would have the same delays/timers/etc as brought up by the defense witness shows a huge lack of scientific awareness. There was no control, period, how do we know that is how KR's Lexus would act, how am I supposed to believe any Lexus would act like that let alone KR's if you have nothing to compare it to

This trial is going to be G or hung, I'm leaning more to NG but sliding more towards hung

They'll try it a third time and waste even more money for another hung jury at best

Imo It’s a matter of mere seconds we are discussing. I’m more than comfortable that the time Read hit him & he stopped moving are one in the same.

 

[Warwick7]

Incorrect.

The ME stated clearly she examined John's legs and saw no evidence of an impact site. Only on his legs.

She was then asked if a bruise on John's knee was consistent with a side-swipe impact and she testified it could be. That is not ruling out a sideswipe impact.


As regards being able to determine cause of his injuries (beyond blunt force trauma and hypothermia) she said this -

Mr Alessi Q: What alternative scenarios did you look at, if any, for the cause or manner of death of Mr O’Keefe?

A: At the time of the autopsy, I documented injuries and signs of hypothermia. I was provided with a set of circumstances and at the end of the investigation, or my, you know, timeline, I concluded on the cause but I did not conclude or I did not determine a manner. The manner would be the circumstances you are speaking about, whether I considered other causes, or circumstances, that’s not how it works. I don’t come up with hypothetical scenarios on how those injuries occur.

timestamp 3.37.33

My post is not incorrect in M00.
It came directly from testimony.

 

[Warwick7]

Why would Proctor display such animosity towards Karen? Those texts reveal he 100% believed she hit him.

IMO

Those text reveal Proctor is completely unprofessional, disgusting, terrible, does harm and there's potential damage he could have on police work in Massachusetts.

This is exactly what Gov. Maura Healey thought of Proctor and his texts.

Governor "disgusted" by Massachusetts State Police Trooper Proctor's texts in Karen Read case

Massachusetts Gov. Maura Healey weighed in on Trooper Michael Proctor's text messages in the Karen Read murder trial.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[louvillian08]

The defense expert did the first chip off. Nothing was destroyed.
Welcher & Burgess found time stamps & they useful for the timeframe
That was the new information


IMO

Incorrect. The EDR and infotainment system were stripped from the Lexus, without ever alerting defense counsel. It was only after the first expert for the defense traveled to see the car, this was discovered. The CW then denied access to the systems they removed. After a year and seven months of the CW refusing to allow access OR do testing themselves, the judge ordered them to work something out with defense counsel. The CW petitioned for a destructive chip off procedure “with the assent and presence of the defense.” This is the only access they ever provided the defense, and because a judge ordered them to.

also incorrect about the timestamps. Those are from the original report and were in the first trial. There was no new data from the car. Brennan alluded to a Bluetooth disconnection in opening arguments but that was never mentioned again

 

[missy1974]

No one can download new data off the Lexus because the CW’s first expert who did the initial chip off procedure destroyed it. Welcher and Burgess had zero new information from the car, even though the CW claimed for months they had new “bombshell” data. They lied.

It was a defense expert that did the chip off, but it was known before the chip off that it could destroy it. I think DiSogra testified yesterday, it can be very tricky to do and he takes extra classes/training for just that (soldering, etc.)

 

[Warwick7]

My personal opinion is, that the jury probably does not like Hank at this point. He certainly does not come across as someone that is likable even with his own witnesses...

 

[Tortoise]

My post is not incorrect in M00.
It came directly from testimony.

These are the direct quotes from her testimony (link provided in post you replied to)

Cross-examination by Alessi

Q: Did you evaluate at all in your autopsy whether Mr O’Keefe had any injuries consistent with a motor vehicle accident?

Objection

I’ll allow that

A: Yes, I did examine his lower extremities, that is protocol, in any case of suspected impact with a motor vehicle, so I did examine his legs and I did not see any evidence of an impact site.

Q: And could you elaborate for the jury what you mean by no evidence of an impact site?

Objection

I’m going to sustain that objection

Q: What do you mean in your answer no evidence of impact injuries?

Objection

I’ll allow that

A: What I look for is some sort of bruise either on the outside of the leg or bleeding on the inside after the skin is reflected and the soft tissues or any fracture of the bones of the legs. I did not observe those things.


Redirect Examination by Brennan

Q: You were asked some questions about impact injuries. In your experience are most pedestrian collisions where there’s injuries to the lower legs either frontal or rear impacts?

Objection

I’ll allow that

A: Most pedestrian fatalities that we see are with impact with the front of the vehicle.

Q: When you gave the perspective that you looked for impact injuries was that with consideration of your experience that most collisions are frontal impact injuries?

A: Most collisions involve frontal impact yes.

Q: How about cases where you had an opportunity to observe people who sustained injuries from being clipped, not hit, but just being clipped. Is your opinion any different in your experience?

Objection

Sustained in that form.

Q: How about a side-swipe injury, is that different relative to your expectations to lower extremity injuries?

Objection

Sustained

Q: A bruise on the knee, is that consistent with a side-swipe impact?

A: It could be.

Q: Did you do any type of biomechanical analysis of the, any alleged collision in this case?

A: No I did not.

Q: Were you asked to?

A: I’m not qualified to do that.

--

 

[missy1974]

The fact that Aperture, and this is outside their lying about reusmes and experience, didn't get a second Lexus, or at least TRY to find a second Lexus to see if the infotainment would have the same delays/timers/etc as brought up by the defense witness shows a huge lack of scientific awareness. There was no control, period, how do we know that is how KR's Lexus would act, how am I supposed to believe any Lexus would act like that let alone KR's if you have nothing to compare it to

This trial is going to be G or hung, I'm leaning more to NG but sliding more towards hung

They'll try it a third time and waste even more money for another hung jury at best

They actually didn't need a 2nd Lexus, they had access to THE Lexus, Karen Read's Lexus. It seems like that would have been pretty simple to do, but they didn't, which then makes me think of Welcher when he said, and I'm paraphrasing, that if they do something and it doesn't show what they expect, he will have to defend that in court, so didn't do it.

In the alternative, DiSogra said that even testing on another Lexus would have given them more information to know if it is every Lexus or maybe just the exemplar Lexus, we don't know because they didn't test it.

 

[Tortoise]

They actually didn't need a 2nd Lexus, they had access to THE Lexus, Karen Read's Lexus. It seems like that would have been pretty simple to do, but they didn't, which then makes me think of Welcher when he said, and I'm paraphrasing, that if they do something and it doesn't show what they expect, he will have to defend that in court, so didn't do it.

In the alternative, DiSogra said that even testing on another Lexus would have given them more information to know if it is every Lexus or maybe just the exemplar Lexus, we don't know because they didn't test it.

I doubt the infotainment system in Karen's Lexus is in a functioning state now, with it having been taken apart and chips removed. I believe it was damaged in the process, IIRC, from Burgess's testimony. MOO

 

[missy1974]

Incorrect. The EDR and infotainment system were stripped from the Lexus, without ever alerting defense counsel. It was only after the first expert for the defense traveled to see the car, this was discovered. The CW then denied access to the systems they removed. After a year and seven months of the CW refusing to allow access OR do testing themselves, the judge ordered them to work something out with defense counsel. The CW petitioned for a destructive chip off procedure “with the assent and presence of the defense.” This is the only access they ever provided the defense, and because a judge ordered them to.

also incorrect about the timestamps. Those are from the original report and were in the first trial. There was no new data from the car. Brennan alluded to a Bluetooth disconnection in opening arguments but that was never mentioned again

Thanks for that info! I wasn't thinking they pulled the data before.. but duh.. Trooper Paul pulled it! Then Gaffney did her chip off, which didn't result in any more information anyway.

The SD card that Burgess pulled, did have infotainment on/off times (not to be confused with techstream data that has always been available and does NOT have timestamps), so could that be the new bombshell evidence? If it is their bombshell.. they sure didn't present it that way and that bomb fizzled because most commenting on the case do not even seem to acknowledge it or care JMO

 

[Odeto BJ]

Imo It’s a matter of mere seconds we are discussing. I’m more than comfortable that the time Read hit him & he stopped moving are one in the same.

Careful.
The comparison between JOK's phone and the Lexus info system has been footed on JOK's LOCKING his phone at a specific time. The phone recorded some minimal time thereafter 30 some steps and subsequently a disposition of pocketed. The whole basis of the Burgess/Welcher testimonies is that the Lock input had to be made by a live person because it requires 2 engagements of a button within a short time frame. So the lock process being a deliberate move (by JOK?) can hardly coincide exactly with being struck by a vehicle because the phone would most likely be in (one of) his hand: would the vehicle impact not launch it to somewhere? Break the screen? Could he maintain a grip on the phone after the back of his head was struck by whatever caused the deep cut?
The phone was found, by Kerry R; on the ground some 14 feet from the curb beneath his shoulder and basically intact. That from T1 testimony,
So if it was in his hand and he was struck by a vehicle, it landed on the lawn and he went after it? With the head wound? Found it; then came the steps...and then he dropped it? Then fell on top of it? Where and when did he vomit?

MOO where and as applicable
ETA Then came the steps....

 

[missy1974]

I doubt the infotainment system in Karen's Lexus is in a functioning state now, with it having been taken apart and chips removed. I believe it was damaged in the process, IIRC, from Burgess's testimony. MOO

That could be. Or it could be that Burgess himself just couldn't do it. JMO

 

[ShadyLady]

Has any location data come out regarding Karen's phone? Location timestamps? I think I missed that.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Dbm

 

[Linda7NJ]

Careful.
The comparison between JOK's phone and the Lexus info system has been footed on JOK's LOCKING his phone at a specific time. The phone recorded some minimal time thereafter 30 some steps and subsequently a disposition of pocketed. The whole basis of the Burgess/Welcher testimonies is that the Lock input had to be made by a live person because it requires 2 engagements of a button within a short time frame. So the lock process being a deliberate move (by JOK?) can hardly coincide exactly with being struck by a vehicle because the phone would most likely be in (one of) his hand: would the vehicle impact not launch it to somewhere? Break the screen? Could he maintain a grip on the phone after the back of his head was struck by whatever caused the deep cut?
The phone was found, by Kerry R; on the ground some 14 feet from the curb beneath his shoulder and basically intact. That from T1 testimony,
So if it was in his hand and he was struck by a vehicle, it landed on the lawn and he went after it? With the head wound? Found it; then came the steps...and then he dropped it? Then fell on top of it? Where and when did he vomit?

MOO where and as applicable
ETA Then came the steps....

This is trial 2
Anything John was holding or on his person would travel at the same velocity as John after being swiped/clipped

IMO

 

[Warwick7]

This is trial 2
Anything John was holding or on his person would travel at the same velocity as John after being swiped/clipped

IMO

Where do we have msm of him holding his phone??

 

[Warwick7]

DiSogra, was called to challenge the prosecution's theory that Read hit JO with her car.

DiSogra's testimony highlighted potential inconsistencies in the prosecution's data interpretation, and the lack of collision events recorded in Read's airbag control module. Oh yes, DiSogra's testimony was crucial in establishing doubt about the prosecution's case.

 

[Tortoise]

I thought the blue grease paint test was so impressive. I never expected those results, to align with the areas of lacerations on his whole arm, and I didn't imagine the taillight would be as high as his upper arm. I expect Mr Brennan will present those pictures to the dog bite expert. JMO