MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #31 Retrial

[Wishbone]

They’re used sitting inside the car.

Plenty of pedestrian dummy testing is done as well.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

People react in different ways. Personally, I’m the detached, “just the facts” type during the crisis. I do what needs to be done….
I fall apart later.
I don’t run around screaming.

Imo

if people react in different ways, why not extend that same grace to Karen when she was in shock? MOO

 

[keek]

Same here, calm and detached in a crisis, and quite annoyed by those that run around in circles getting nothing done but freaking out loudly.
I can say that- but I’ve not found a loved one bleeding and nearly dead and cold to touch.
That may freak me out in reality- not sure.

I don’t take the calmness in a crisis as something it isn’t.

IMO

The comment was about finding a friend or family member. JenMc lied and had talked to her sister IN THAT house not long before. The ones that were supposed to be asleep and unaware of what was happening under their windows. She was found out. Hence, CALMNESS. She knew. IMO

 

[Leilei]

He was found in the morning around 6AM and covered with snow- how could the blizzard have started after he was found. Was that snow not the blizzard?

Maybe here in Texas we don’t have blizzards too often so I’m not understanding what is light snow and what is blizzard for Boston?

IMO

I've posted this before, but this is the weather from that entire day, including snow amounts, wind speed, etc...
Light snow until approx 9am that morning, after JOK was found.

Norwood, MA Weather History | Weather Underground

IMO.

 

[Warwick7]

If that


This was pre-trial.




This is pre-trial #2 so did Green testify in trial #2? I don't recall him and I've watched every day. If he didn't that means JC didn't allow it. I didn't watch pre-trial as not all that is presented gets to the jury. Trying to follow and form an opinion is difficult when posters keep bringing up trial #1 and pre-trial issues. JMO

T1 started April 29, 2024
Richard Green in courtroom on June 21, 24
T1 ended July 1, 2024
----------

This video clip is not pre-trial #2.

 

[Warwick7]

Listen to the 911 call. JM did the call and said they turned him over.

Exactly

 

[Warwick7]

Reminder -
Both ARCCA experts testified Karen couldn’t have broken her taillight tapping John’s vehicle
Neither ruled out the possibility of a swipe or clip

IMO

Link?

 

[twall]

T1 started April 29, 2024
Richard Green in courtroom on June 21, 24
T1 ended July 1, 2024
----------

This video clip is not pre-trial #2.

I'm confused as you said it was pre-trial and I was going by the date on the tweet. So he didn't testify in trial 2.

 

[Warwick7]

Trooper Guarino testified to it, in the courtroom, this trial, as reported in MSM.

from timestamp 6.14.00

That does not negate what Green stated in the courtroom. Green stated clearly Karen’s GPS data was deleted from her phone in April 2022, in Proctor’s custody.

Library video, Ring video, Sallyport video, Karen’s GPS - all deleted

 

[Warwick7]

Trooper Guarino testified to it, in the courtroom, this trial, as reported in MSM.

from timestamp 6.14.00

That does not negate what Green stated in the courtroom.

 

[Tortoise]

That does not negate what Green stated in the courtroom. Green stated clearly Karen’s GPS data was deleted from her phone in April 2022, in Proctor’s custody.

Library video, Ring video, Sallyport video, Karen’s GPS - all deleted

They did not gain access to Karen's phone until July 2022 because they did not have her passcode. Link provided above.

 

[Warwick7]

I'm confused as you said it was pre-trial and I was going by the date on the tweet. So he didn't testify in trial 2.

I never said anything about pre-trial

https://twitter.com/x/status/1887538829525197168

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Interesting......The company site for Aperture no longer allows you to search their experts. You now have to 'submit a request'. Funny that...
Last week, we were able to see Burgess and Welcher on their site.

Not anymore.....

That sure is interesting @shotgun09 ….

I wonder if it might be due to something wherein they don’t actually have any experts available? At least two of them…… Burgess and Welcher had that ‘Not For Expert Designation’ watermark appearing across their downloaded CV. It is hard to fathom IMO that a forensic analysis group would display that notation for their paid experts. And IIRC I believe @Leilei had also observed that the disqualifying odd designation for Burgess and Welcher might have been added during the second trial. In other words, IIUC the CW engaged this firm, or their experts, and then their ‘qualifications’ appear to have ‘changed’?

And to think…… the two Aperture LLC individuals testifying in this case. SMH.

This response appeared when I just tried to load their ‘experts’. So IMO it does appear they are attempting to limit or restrict their ‘experts’ ‘credentials’.

I still believe there is another open question. A large one. Has the CW paid in full for their ‘expert testimony’? MOO

 

[lonetraveler]

IMO it’s not reasonable to believe a dog caused those arm injuries. They’re abrasions.
A dog would leave DNA & hair and dogs have a lower jaw. There are no punctures one would expect.

As I've already posted, I suffered two dog attacks last year. There are only scars from the wounds on the top part of my forearm on both arms, nothing on the bottom. Believe me, I was attacked by two dogs on both my arms, I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Leilei]

She was mistaken - Kerry & Karen reached him first - she made the 911 call.
IMO

Mistaken or lied to 911 when she called?
If mistaken, did she amend her statement when testifying either time?
TYIA.
IMO.

 

[missy1974]

So true @cocomod - a fair and balanced trial - that’s the goal.
We have been here many many threads and lots of us watched the first trial and are doing the same with t2.
The thing is - and for those new to thread if it has not been said recently - the investigation was so piss poor that we may never know what actually happened here. John O’Keefe deserved better. Karen deserved better. Those of us in Norfolk County deserved better. So could Karen have hit John in theory - sure. Could his injuries have been caused by something else - sure.

We are at trial now though so it’s all about BARD.

You want to talk about bias ? You only have to focus in on day one with the lead investigator deciding Karen was guilty not thru his due diligence/ investigation - we were not even 24 hrs out. You need to start at the beginning. How the media told us all locally that it was caught on a neighbors camera that Karen backed into John.
Except oh surprise the trial comes and there was nothing on tape - there never was.

I came here to trial 1 thinking sure lots of booze - KR backs up /unintentionally hits John. Car is so big she has no idea and takes off. It seems reasonable right? Sure.

And then you see the injuries that don’t seem to fit. And the CW cannot make them fit even for 400k.
I also don’t believe a tail light made from polycarbonate breaks into 47 pieces and flies thru the air. Look it up. And oh, we have extra pieces of taillight. Someone was out there scattering taillight pieces like a flower girl at a wedding with flower petals.

Trial 1 ARCCA made the difference for me. NO BIAS with them bc it was a report ordered and paid for by the justice dept/ fbi. They did not know the case or the players at that point. Just the details they needed for reconstruction.
That report was sent to the Prosecution. It said basically John’s injuries were not consistent with being hit by a vehicle. It did not fit the P’s narrative so they ignored it. Did not even bother to have their guy call and discuss. Sent it to the D in a discovery dump.

The Prosecution has Confirmation BIAS - if it doesn’t fit they discard it. Same thing here at times - there is a lack of intellectual honesty in acknowledging actual facts.

I sense the clash between opinions is emotional thinkers vs logical thinkers. People looking at things with different filters.

I don’t think many people find Karen a sympathetic defendant at all, but the hate directed at the defendent in these threads borders on pathological. I find it disturbing.

If you think Karen is guilty - or not guilty - or the other category of “who knows” bc of the lack of good evidence - this is a discussion board. People will ask you for your rationale and that’s part of discussion.

ARCCA should be up this week. I’ll have a second look and see what I think.

I believe most are open to new information.

But yes at this point I am clearly in the NG bc the CW did not meet BARD. And they had every opportunity to do that.

I lean towards that he went into the house and got sucker punched maybe from behind with a blunt object. Chloe the dog jumped in.

Whatever happened nobody was trying to kill John it was an accident.

You can call that Bias or call me biased if you want - I call it following the information where takes you.

JMO.

This is a great post @waldojabba and it gives those of us living outside of this area a good from day 1 perspective. Thanks!

I know I sometimes I forget when following these cases that they are real people.. KR is real... JOK is real... the witnesses are real. When this case is over, most of us will carry on to a different case. For locals, this will linger for a long time, it won't matter what the outcome is IMO

ETA: omg what were you all up to today? haha I have a ton of pages to read LOL

 

[Warwick7]

They did not gain access to Karen's phone until July 2022 because they did not have her passcode. Link provided above.

The date they gained access doesn’t change the fact that Richard Green testified on 6-21-24 that Karen’s GPS data was deleted from her phone in April 2022, while in Proctor’s custody.

 

[Leilei]

if people react in different ways, why not extend that same grace to Karen when she was in shock? MOO

BAM!!

 

[missy1974]

I think the blame on others and LE conspiracy was necessary by the defense when the DA increased the charges and brought in the taillight evidence that appears fictional and fabricated.

If the taillight evidence is fabricated then you wonder Why?
Following that assumption you conclude that someone is covering up something and pinning this on KR because they believe she is near to the incident enough for her to plausibly be to blame.

This to me is a logical path by the defense to conspiracy by LE. Then you can speculate as to what they may be converting up, and who actually did it, and if it was intentional, and why plant evidence if you didn’t do it.

IMO

I know I'm really behind today..
But my understanding is... after her first hearing, Yanetti had someone call him annonymously and tell him to have a look at Brian and Colin Albert, that they killed him or something. Maybe someone else that was following then, knows more? or can correct me if I'm wrong

 

[missy1974]

Yeah, I agree body temp should have fallen quicker, in a blizzard, on the cold ground, without a coat. When they described rendering aid- chest compressions and rescue breaths I said? What?
And then EMTs intubated and put him on a ventilator.
I was shocked he had been out in a blizzard that long and was alive and not frozen!

I didn’t know the temp outside- but we know it was January, near Boston, at night, the sun goes down early, and a blizzard!

I’ll have to see how the body temp was presented- if they say lower than 80, or if they say measured at 80 degrees F. And how was it measured?
Core temp is used to determine time of death, and measurement happens using a thermometer into a deceased person’s liver. He was alive when found, so how was it measured?
Comparing an alive person’s body temp with a deceased person’s to find time of death are very different. Here we are talking about 5 hours- so it is well beyond the time that should have killed him. So you would then ask how on earth could still be alive?

And… JM did a search to find out how long it would take. So if she read the results she would have known JO’s alive and unfrozen body she was seeing near 6AM, doing chest compressions on could not have been outside exposed the entire time since she last text him when the SUV was in front of the house.

Hmmm- that is some pretty incriminating evidence and food for thought!

Great points! And just the kind of evidence that makes me think! Thank you for your time here!
IMO

It is all these little things taken together that make a lot of us go hmmm I'm enjoying reading your posts... I don't always agree, but that is okay here Thanks for posting ... and keep posting your thoughts