MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #32 Retrial

[Gerald12]

I never saw confusion yesterday. I saw a work of art and I saw justice take place. Why should the defense rest? They have more witnesses. They aren't finished with the CW yet... And besides, I didn't say it was a slam dunk. Read the twitter post again. Carl Steinbeck said "It's game over." You can always ask him your questions.

I was just asking a genuine question. I think there's certainly some confusion in this case, and has been throughout the trial and was just wondering if the defence case is felt to be so strong now, would it be a good time to close.
Confusion should equal reasonable doubt but it didn't seem to in the last trial, hence here we are again.

 

[Anniesflowers]

I just read that Lucky, the plow driver will be next to testify!

Judge denies Karen Read’s motion for mistrial, snow plow driver expected to next take the stand - Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

DEDHAM, MASS. (WHDH) - The judge in the Karen Read murder retrial denied the defense’s motion for another mistrial Tuesday morning.“The defense moves strongly, vigorously,<a class="excerpt-read-more"...

whdh.com

 

[mrjitty]

An update from Scott Reisch, confirms here Dr Russell was an atrocious witness for the defence.

I couldn't agree more.

She changed her testimony all over the place, showing her bias, went from an animal, possibly a dog, to certainty it was a dog, but could not identify any one of the wound 'sets' on their own as being a dog attack! So what she's saying is it's only the number of wound sets, not their individual characteristics! Skin elasticity to explain major inconsistencies between every single wound set. Said she didn't want to testify but inserted herself in the case and advertises herself for future work with a picture of herself testifying. Wanted to explore all the reasons for there being no dog DNA but only those that fit with her own opinion, refusing to entertain the most obvious one of all, that she could be wrong and it wasn't a dog! As for saying she'd been taught that in medicine you can never be 100% certain, well she soon abandoned that.

I do appreciate her though, for being willing to test a theory, and shoring up the prosecution case.

In my opinion.

There was one part of Dr Russell's scope that I feel Judge Cannone got wrong.

I understand the Judge's decision to allow the witness to provide expert testimony re dog bites based on her extensive clinical experience, even though there is no accepted methodology.

However I don't understand how Dr Russell can exclude tail light injuries when the testimony didn't indicate she had any personal knowledge of what such an injury would look like. Brennan illustrated that the broader circumstantial evidence suggested the vehicle, yet she apparently discounted all of it based on what she felt she knew such an injury should look like?

This went even further when the witness was allowed to testify about the defendant's excited utterances which seemed way out of scope, though I am sure Brennan was very happy she made those statements.

MOO.

 

[mrjitty]

Interesting. Perhaps another reason why the federal investigation was closed, with no charges.

Yes. If DOJ had found actual evidence of corruption in this case, the parties ought to have received it in the Touhy dump. I have wondered if Brennan would consider calling this witness on rebuttal.

 

[Tortoise]

I just read that Lucky, the plow driver will be next to testify!

Judge denies Karen Read’s motion for mistrial, snow plow driver expected to next take the stand - Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

DEDHAM, MASS. (WHDH) - The judge in the Karen Read murder retrial denied the defense’s motion for another mistrial Tuesday morning.“The defense moves strongly, vigorously,<a class="excerpt-read-more"...

whdh.com

I often wonder why the defence argues that Lucky would have seen John, because there wasn't any real snow to talk of at that time of the morning, yet there was enough snow to be out plowing the roads. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

There was one part of Dr Russell's scope that I feel Judge Cannone got wrong.

I understand the Judge's decision to allow the witness to provide expert testimony re dog bites based on her extensive clinical experience, even though there is no accepted methodology.

However I don't understand how Dr Russell can exclude tail light injuries when the testimony didn't indicate she had any personal knowledge of what such an injury would look like. Brennan illustrated that the broader circumstantial evidence suggested the vehicle, yet she apparently discounted all of it based on what she felt she knew such an injury should look like?

This went even further when the witness was allowed to testify about the defendant's excited utterances which seemed way out of scope, though I am sure Brennan was very happy she made those statements.

MOO.

Pattern recognition hotshot, obviously.

 

[mrjitty]

I was just asking a genuine question. I think there's certainly some confusion in this case, and has been throughout the trial and was just wondering if the defence case is felt to be so strong now, would it be a good time to close.
Confusion should equal reasonable doubt but it didn't seem to in the last trial, hence here we are again.

If you look at the bones of the case i.e. what does the state have to prove, I think it's pretty clear the defence has evidential work to do for a couple of reasons.

First up, Brennan has achieved a much better version of the case than Lally got. That is partly good fortune, as Burgess' ingenuity in extracting the Lexus user data from the SD card effectively proves the defendant drove at high speed outside Fairview. Because that high speed reversing gives you a dangerous intentional act - the defence needs to focus on causation. So ARCCA at least need to sow some doubt that the John's fatal injury was directly caused by the defendant's high speed reverse. Based on last time, i think they will establish a plausible theory to compete with Welcher - but the D cannot rest without it.

Second, even with ARCCA, the defence still need enough evidence that the defendant was framed. For example, the tail light fragments cannot be found by SERT or be recovered in Johns shirt without either a collision or corrupt framing. This time the defence so far do not have access to Proctor, or their preferred culprits BA and BH. How they plug this up I am not sure. Maybe they mostly rely on ARCCA to imply framing if that makes sense.

MOO

 

[Gerald12]

If you look at the bones of the case i.e. what does the state have to prove, I think it's pretty clear the defence has evidential work to do for a couple of reasons.

First up, Brennan has achieved a much better version of the case than Lally got. That is partly good fortune, as Burgess' ingenuity in extracting the Lexus user data from the SD card effectively proves the defendant drove at high speed outside Fairview. Because that high speed reversing gives you a dangerous intentional act - the defence needs to focus on causation. So ARCCA at least need to sow some doubt that the John's fatal injury was directly caused by the defendant's high speed reverse. Based on last time, i think they will establish a plausible theory to compete with Welcher - but the D cannot rest without it.

Second, even with ARCCA, the defence still need enough evidence that the defendant was framed. For example, the tail light fragments cannot be found by SERT or be recovered in Johns shirt without either a collision or corrupt framing. This time the defence so far do not have access to Proctor, or their preferred culprits BA and BH. How they plug this up I am not sure. Maybe they mostly rely on ARCCA to imply framing if that makes sense.

MOO

Thank you so much for your detailed reply Mr. Jitty, much appreciated.

 

[lohrtabitha]

While today’s testimony from Officer Barros rightfully got a lot of attention, something else major was read into the record that i almost missed!

A second medical examiner’s conclusion, Dr. John C. Walsh’s, was entered into the record and read aloud in court by Alessi and Dr. Russell on Dr Russell’s final redirect. His report stated that the injuries seen in the autopsy and photos were nonspecific and could’ve come from multiple mechanisms. He went further to say that without more information about the circumstances of the death, he couldn’t determine a definitive cause. That’s a pretty significant statement.

JMO

Bbm
Multiple mechanisms meaning the fists of some certain men, the claws and bites of a certain dog, and the fall backwards onto a piece of gym equipment. All in my opinion.

 

[Tortoise]

I often wonder why the defence argues that Lucky would have seen John, because there wasn't any real snow to talk of at that time of the morning, yet there was enough snow to be out plowing the roads. JMO

Oh, maybe he got mixed up in his memory and was out plowing the following night, after the real snow fall.

 

[lohrtabitha]

Dr Walsh also wrote in his report "are highly unlikely to be the result of an animal bite attack"

from 5.40.50 onwards, during cross-exam

Too bad he is not believable thanks to the blue man experiment. Moo

 

[Forest_Wood]

I often wonder why the defence argues that Lucky would have seen John, because there wasn't any real snow to talk of at that time of the morning, yet there was enough snow to be out plowing the roads. JMO

I don't understand your point? Brian Loughlan would have seen John's body that night if it had been there. There's no doubt about that, with his big snowplow dump truck, the bright and high lighting shining outwards and downwards for many feet, his excellent observation skill from decades of performing his duties, and by the way he presented at the last trial, someone who is not prone to drinking like the Alberts, therefore, clear thinking and recall of events of that night. When he found out that a man had been found on the Alberts lawn that same day through the grapevine, imagine how impacted he would have felt, knowing he had driven down the same street not once, but twice, then couldn't pass on the 3rd trip due to the cops being there. He would have immediately remembered everything like a movie passing through his mind, and possibly even thought he might be blamed since he traveled the road twice. The fact he wasn't even spoken to until the defense contacted him is more insanity from Proctor.
MOO
BTW, there's a lot of preparation that goes into plowing snow. Sanding. Salting. Plowing. Sanding. Salting. Plowing. Repeat until all the snow is pushed entirely off of the roads and that it's made safe for people to drive on it.

 

[lohrtabitha]

Do you think the Defence should just rest so? If it seems a slam dunk, would now be the best time to finish rather than let any more confusion arise?

But if they keep going, and can show more evidence of tampering and can get BA and BH on the stand to show their obstruction of justice, it might be the more noble thing to do.I feel AJ is easy to follow. It's Brennan that makes me want to mute my TV. Imo

 

[Tortoise]

Too bad he is not believable thanks to the blue man experiment. Moo

It's not Dr Welcher, it's a DOJ instructed medical examiner, Dr Walsh.

 

[lohrtabitha]

Interesting. Perhaps another reason why the federal investigation was closed, with no charges.

After what Barros told us yesterday about just 1 tail light piece, I'm sure it will be reopened. Just as sure, as the FBI is watching this trial. Imo

 

[lohrtabitha]

Yes. If DOJ had found actual evidence of corruption in this case, the parties ought to have received it in the Touhy dump. I have wondered if Brennan would consider calling this witness on rebuttal.

Yesterday changed everything!!

 

[Soulmagent]

Yesterday changed everything!!

It was a step towards justice. The fact is KR is innocent of her charges ,other than her DUI. Which should have been charged on scene.

 

[lohrtabitha]

I often wonder why the defence argues that Lucky would have seen John, because there wasn't any real snow to talk of at that time of the morning, yet there was enough snow to be out plowing the roads. JMO

If you have ever climbed into and sat in one of those great big trucks, you could understand why. The seats are up high and the lights are super bright for visibility and safety. Plow trucks here, will sand and salt our roads when there is very little snow.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1930232212986716565

‘ if you are concerned with prosecutorial misconduct and due process the question you should be asking is: why did Lally call Barros a year ago, have him describe the taillight and NOT drive it home by confirming its condition with the photo from a few days later. It makes no sense to call him and not end the “tinfoil hat conspiracy” if he had the power to do so. The answer appears to be because he knew what he said. That information is as exculpatory as exculpatory gets: it suggests Proctor planted evidence. The defense didn’t cross Barros. Why? Because they had relatively favorable information and didn’t know what he would have said if asked. Yet this time, Barros willingly travelled to meet with the defense. He clearly was eager to testify as a defense witness and lay it all out. If the prosecution concealed this favorable information front the defense last year, they likely caused a colossal waste of time, subjected Karen to a year more of this, and cost taxpayers a few million bucks. A journalist should dive into this…’

 

[Teche]

I missed the beginning of Dr. Russell’s testimony. I know that she worked as an ER Dr. at a prominent trauma hospital and is a former police officer. Did she specialize/train in dog bites? My sil was an ER nurse at a trauma hospital and they were not fortunate enough to have a Dr. who specialized in dog/animal bites.