MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #32 Retrial

[Younger Sister]

Where was BHs Jeep??? If it was parked next to the mailbox and the kids pulled behind KR, where was the Jeep and if it was there, how did she not hit the Jeep? I am so confused.

that is a million dollar question that has not been answered IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

And actually the big question in my mind, why didn't the defense pursue it? Very telling non action , IMO.

That is exactly the question I was trying to get at. Could they not just drop her from the witness list?
Others have said they were hoping she would get BH mentioned, or mention the FBI, and open up the line of questioning to these topics?
I don’t know how that works to comment.

IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

The whole analysis provided by ARCAA is irrelevant and this is the problem with expert witnesses.

Dr. Wolf knows that the huge flaw in his testimony is that they don't know the position of Officer O'Keefe when he was hit, If his injuries were primarily due to contact with the car, or secondary to contact with the car (he fell and hit his head vs his head was crushed by the car), they don't know the condition of the tail light prior to it striking him (it may have already been broken). There are infinite degrees of freedom around each of those factors that they would need to get exactly right to understand what happened. In reality if the CW had hired ARCCA their story would be how easily they figured out how JO broke the tail light.

This is not how good scientists behave, it is how good witnesses make money.

The whole trial is such a waste, if Ms Read had plead guilty to a lesser charge she would already be out of Jail, if she served any time at all, and she would be millions of dollars richer.

So the testimony from the prosecution's expert was all bogus too?? The one with the blue arm paint, and orange T-shirt? And the new SUV? And $300k richer?

 

[Bodhi]

I thought she has a false memory? How does she know?

Clearing a foot and a half of snow off your car in a blizzard at the end of a double shift is something most people would remember. It's grounded in time and place. She experienced it herself; it isn't like recalling when you may have seen something on security camera a year and a half later.

A reasonable person in Dever's position would be concerned that the defense timeline meant her memory was suspect. They'd verify when the Lexus arrived at Canton PD and check work records to confirm what time their shift ended before calling the federal agents to recant.

The defense knew Dever recanted her inaccurate statement since it at least April 2024. They could have obtained security video footage from inside and outside Canton PD to check when she left. They did it with other witnesses. If they believed she recanted falsely, proving it would be pivotal to their case that Karen was framed. They'd be derelict if they didn't review it. I think the defense attorneys are diligent. Therefore, I think they've reviewed the work records and video footage and confirmed Dever left before the Lexus arrived.

 

[mzmarymac]

Hank sounds pretty desparate here....

 

[tara83]

Clearing a foot and a half of snow off your car in a blizzard at the end of a double shift is something most people would remember. It's grounded in time and place. She experienced it herself; it isn't like recalling when you may have seen something on security camera a year and a half later.

A reasonable person in Dever's position would be concerned that the defense timeline meant her memory was suspect. They'd verify when the Lexus arrived at Canton PD and check work records to confirm what time their shift ended before calling the federal agents to recant.

The defense knew Dever recanted her inaccurate statement since it

Seems like a lot of cops with false memories in this case. I wonder why?

 

[AngTxGal]

MODS: if it is wrong of me to post a zoomed in image of OJO’s elbow please snip it out of my post. I personally don’t find the image “graphic” or disturbing, but i have 5 kids and have seen a lot of nasty skinned knees and bruises etc over the years.

Also, I posted the link of Dr. Russel’s testimony and noted the timestamp when this zoomed in image is shown. The reason i felt the need to post the image in my post is because I wanted to circle the tiny dots and draw the shape of the bruise mark overlayed onto the dots.

Dr. Russel said she believed the marks on the posterior/underside of OJO’s elbow may have been made by the dog’s bottom teeth at 1:26:09 in this recording of her testimony:

In the above linked testimony they then zoomed in at 1:26:40, and I was wowed by what I saw when they zoomed in. There is CLEARLY a row of little dots/indentures in the shape of a dog’s bottom jaw. The row looked like a smile sort of. And the bruising definitely looked like a smile. Her testimony this week was the first time I saw that zoomed in image under his elbow, and i found that VERY compelling and convincing.

To reference the shape the front of a dog’s bottom jaw and the tiny bottom front teeth, I’ve posted an image below that was shown to jurors during the linked testimony of Dr. Marie Russel. Please note the bottom jaw/ bottom teeth are on the right and the top jaw is in the left. Note the wide U shape kind of smiley face smile shape the bottom jaw and teeth make. Those little bottom front teeth seem to have made little dots on OJO’s arm rather than large pulling abrasions like the canine teeth did on other parts of the arm. In the image I posted of OJO’s elbow, i circled where the tiny dots are, and beneath the image i drew the shape of the bruising that appears with the dots. (Smiley face smile)


View attachment 592419

View attachment 592428

I believe according to the images of the top jaw that the 2 parallel lines above the bottom teeth dots and smile shaped bruising are from the top canine teeth and were made at the same time/ same bite as the bottom teeth smile dots and bruise were. Think of biting into an apple. Your top teeth go into the top and bottom into an area below the top teeth. Biting a bent elbow would be similar to biting an apple for lack of a better way of explaining it

I was also impressed by the zoomed in image of hole 1 in his sweatshirt that they showed to illustrate the perfect circle and size of a canine tooth and how the fabric was pulled out. Really convincing. Reminds me of the hair highlighting kit when you put that plastic cap on your head with all the little drawn and perforated circles and what happens when you poke the metal stick in to puncture each hole. When you pull the metal stick out, the plastic cap material comes out and over just like the sweatshirt fabric did when the dog’s tooth exited the sweatshirt fabric. See image from testimony below
View attachment 592421

Impressive find, in real life bites the skin would react and swell at every single one of those marks. In the images I had seen earlier there was much that wasn’t visible.

Clearly this looks like top and bottom jaw- which is what I had been looking to see.

IMO

 

[themonk]

Every defense attorney in the future: "Ms Dever is it possible you imagined what you testified to today?'

 

[sunshineray]

Do they need it when so much of the evidence shows John was never hit by an automobile.

I think there's a plethora of very convincing evidence from witnesses that shows JO was hit by the Lexus driven by KR. AJMO

 

[HarmonyE.]

I think there's a plethora of very convincing evidence from witnesses that shows JO was hit by the Lexus driven by KR. AJMO

I'd argue the total opposite.

There is zero evidence of any kind from witnesses proving JO was hit by any vehicle.

 

[waldojabba]

I do not 100% understand this line of reasoning because the Boston and Canton PDs are two totally separate employers. I see her as a person who, whatever happened to her in Canton, left. She wanted out of that Dept. I also imagine (?) that the Boston salaries are much higher overall.

I posted links for salary look up - it’s public info - a bit back in the thread. You can google too if you don’t want to hunt back through the thread. There is in my mind a significant diff. I don’t want to quote numbers without re looking.
Working days vs night shift. as has been mentioned is also a huge perk.
Something was up

She kept quiet until the fbi called her. She told the truth and thought she was home free.

It proceeds from there and imo blew up in her face.

Choices meet consequences. Your adult enough to be a cop with a gun?

IMO, Brennan was so nasty to Dr. Wolfe during voir dire, I had second hand embarrassment. Dr. Wolfe knows his business inside and out, so he stayed cool and collected, which made him seem even more believable.

I am expecting that Brennan sharpened his canine teeth at lunch and we will see more of the same as at the voir dire . He'll try and catch him in inconsistencies and he will def bring up the "clandestine " use of Signal app between D and Wolfe.
He is going to try and paint Wolfe as compromised I imagine , well bc ....projection. SInce Hank is compromised - he thinks everybody is .
And the Judge will allow it
JMO

 

[tara83]

I think there's a plethora of very convincing evidence from witnesses that shows JO was hit by the Lexus driven by KR. AJMO

What witness? Not one person claims to have seen it happen.

 

[Warwick7]

I'm way behind, but THIS is what an expert should sound like. And THESE are the tests that needed to be done to answer the questions in this case.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1931026063951384811

 

[Curiousobserver]

So the testimony from the prosecution's expert was all bogus too?? The one with the blue arm paint, and orange T-shirt? And the new SUV? And $300k richer?

The CW witness predictably showed you plausible ways it did happen, and the defense witness plausible ways it didn't. Both of them has an agenda and thus the problem with expert opinions. You can't question an expert about his opinion on things they didn't testify about or are not claiming to be an expert in, that might also totally contradict what they just said.

I have posted extensively on why (all) expert witnesses should almost universally be ignored unless they are testifying about measurements they actually made.

 

[themonk]

I think there's a plethora of very convincing evidence from witnesses that shows JO was hit by the Lexus driven by KR. AJMO

Can you list the prosecution witnesses that have lied on the stand please?

Thanks

 

[LaineyJ]

I like that (imo) dr Wolfe looks like he’s almost holding back a smile at random moments while on cross. Because Brennan is ridiculous

 

[justwannahelp]

Impressive find, in real life bites the skin would react and swell at every single one of those marks. In the images I had seen earlier there was much that wasn’t visible.

Clearly this looks like top and bottom jaw- which is what I had been looking to see.

IMO

Hopefully the jury can make sense of it. I immediately saw the bottom teeth red dots during her testimony, but it wasn’t until looking at the elbow for a while today that i noticed how the 2 parallel line wounds above are likely from the upper canines and likely occurred at the same time based on the anatomy of an elbow bone — being round

I hope they really study this zoomed in image. I also think some of the wounds in the same area of the arm didn’t occur at the same time but rather from multiple bite attempts in the same area, so the wounds kind of overlap each other for lack of a better way of explaining it. I’m still studying the arm image. Poor John

 

[Anniesflowers]

The whole analysis provided by ARCAA is irrelevant and this is the problem with expert witnesses.

Dr. Wolf knows that the huge flaw in his testimony is that they don't know the position of Officer O'Keefe when he was hit, If his injuries were primarily due to contact with the car, or secondary to contact with the car (he fell and hit his head vs his head was crushed by the car), they don't know the condition of the tail light prior to it striking him (it may have already been broken). There are infinite degrees of freedom around each of those factors that they would need to get exactly right to understand what happened. In reality if the CW had hired ARCCA their story would be how easily they figured out how JO broke the tail light.

This is not how good scientists behave, it is how good witnesses make money.

The whole trial is such a waste, if Ms Read had plead guilty to a lesser charge she would already be out of Jail, if she served any time at all, and she would be millions of dollars richer.

BBM: Dr. Wolfe is here to talk about the potential damage to the taillight and shirt after the alleged collision. The other Dr. for ARCCA was hired to show the potential damage to JOK’s body after the alleged collision. The CW still hasn’t proved the collision between the Lexus and JOK ever happened. Dr. Wolfe is testifying that IF an alleged collision occurred, we would not see 47 pieces of tailight strewn about the front yard a 34 Fairview. His experiments are showing that to be the case, imo.
We do agree that the trial is a waste. Without evidence that JOK was hit by a vehicle, what are we doing here?? I o

 

[Bodhi]

Do you find it strangely odd that the only missing time from videos appears to be times when one might have seen, or not seen, evidence of what actually happened? One missing video, say, of KR passing the library, sure. Things happen. Systems glitch. Sally port missing video? Neighbor retired officer erased video? How many odd coincidences does it take to really wonder what’s actually happening here?

I find it suspicious that the video that is not missing from the camera at John's house is helpful to Karen. If law enforcement deleted videos as you intimate, why would they preserve Karen bumping his car, creating an alternate explanation for the broken taillight?

 

[LaineyJ]

I’m 100% more inclined to believe a professional who can demonstrate what testing, theories, variables etc they worked on, and who was hired by one of the top LE agencies in the country (so has no bias) … instead of an “expert” whose own employer revokes their designation as expert before they go on the stand. And who also, obviously, did not do testing that should’ve been done.

imo