MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #33 Retrial

[themonk]

Also Karen's tail light was proven to broken that morning and it's been proven it was not done in the driveway at 1M, and the first 6-7 pieces were recovered by SERT too soon for any staging to be possible from the impounded Lexus at the Sallyport.

The defendant must have broken the tail light at 34F when she dropped John off and drive high speed in reverse. I don't see that can be disputed now.

Now sure you can claim the defendant backed into Higgin's jeep or some other theory, but i can't see how you get that into evidence when the defendant has video taped interviews saying none of that happened.

MOO

Do you think John's injuries are consistent with a car strike?

Do you think any evidence was planted in this case?

 

[Forest_Wood]

I came to have interest in this case fairly recently, came in extremely open minded and not skewed by online dribble as I really hadn't read, researched, or paid any attention to the entire case.

I probably would have made a decent juror

I'm fully expecting another hung jury. Sorry folks, to those who think guilty here, I'm just not seeing it.

Unless, haha......JO was stumbling around the yard, with his sleeves rolled up, the dog cut across the lawn and bit up his arm, yankin' his sleeves back down.....he then lost balance and while screaming to have KR back up and get him, he flung his glass wildly at the dog, missed, but hit the car, bustin' out the tail light, causing it to shatter in to 47 pieces or thereabouts, and resulting in KR getting pzz'd off and throwin' it in reverse, whereby he loses balance at the curb, cuz everybody's drunk ya know, and she backs in to him, hitting only his arm, but maybe nickin' his forehead somehow, while he picks up a bunch of tail light lens in some manner (some of which embeds in his sleeve), swirls around a couple times, and stumbles back out in to the yard, carrying tail light lens pieces (thereby being scattered about), dropping his cell phone, landing on it and hitting his head on a stone or something in the grass there cutting him wide open, none of which was heard or seen by anybody in the house there at the party, or anyone else coming or going past the area, nary being seen by a snow plow operator, or anyone else for that matter for several hours, ad nauseum.

That's funny, but not funny of course since a man lost his life, however, it shows the silliness of how our minds have to process all the information gleaned to come to a sensible conclusion.
There just has not been enough proof BARD that Karen hit John with her vehicle and caused his fatal injuries. In my mind, his dying may have less to do with her car and more to do with him stumbling about and falling due to being so intoxicated. There's even less proof that she did anything intentional. I still can't get past BH saying he didn't stay long because they had no whiskey (leaving 30-60min after him arriving first according to his testimony and he gave an Irish goodbye not telling anyone) or the discrepancy of where his jeep was parked, or that not one person who was looking out the window watching KR's SUV saw or heard anything related to a collision. Also how would the glass found near JOK get there on the lawn if it hit the taillight.
There is no definitive way a juror could convict Karen Read with so much doubt IMO.
I am hopeful for a NG verdict because of so much reasonable doubt, but expect a second hung jury which will be another travesty of justice for everyone involved. Karen Read will never be found guilty of what she was charged with since they all involve her vehicle.

1. second-degree murder with her vehicle as the weapon
2. vehicular manslaughter while operating under the influence
3. leaving the scene of a collision resulting in death

MOO

 

[tara83]

That's funny, but not funny of course since a man lost his life, however, it shows the silliness of how our minds have to process all the information gleaned to come to a sensible conclusion.
There just has not been enough proof BARD that Karen hit John with her vehicle and caused his fatal injuries. In my mind, his dying may have less to do with her car and more to do with him stumbling about and falling due to being so intoxicated. There's even less proof that she did anything intentional. I still can't get past BH saying he didn't stay long because they had no whiskey (leaving 30-60min after him arriving first according to his testimony and he gave an Irish goodbye not telling anyone) or the discrepancy of where his jeep was parked, or that not one person who was looking out the window watching KR's SUV saw or heard anything related to a collision. Also how would the glass found near JOK get there on the lawn if it hit the taillight.
There is no definitive way a juror could convict Karen Read with so much doubt IMO.
I am hopeful for a NG verdict because of so much reasonable doubt, but expect a second hung jury which will be another travesty of justice for everyone involved. Karen Read will never be found guilty of what she was charged with since they all involve her vehicle.

1. second-degree murder with her vehicle as the weapon
2. vehicular manslaughter while operating under the influence
3. leaving the scene of a collision resulting in death

MOO

I'm wondering if the CW will have the nerve for yet another trial if we get another hung jury. Starting to be a ton of anger from taxpayers in that area over the huge amount being spent in these 2 trials.

 

[Spider92]

Just jumping in with a thought. If they pieced together the fragments of the tail light, jigsawwise, would they find they had a missing piece, about the size of a dollar bill?

That’s a good question.
But I suppose a related question might be “Was a missing piece, or pieces, about the size of a dollar bill, found in JOK’s driveway, where the Lexus bumped into JOK’s car?”
And then, “If the taillight was partially broken in JOK’s driveway (but not found there), and there were enough pieces at 34FV to entirely (or almost entirely) reassemble the taillight, how did the dollar size piece(s) get from JOK’s driveway to 34FV?”
…..insert picture of MP here

 

[lohrtabitha]

I'm not sure why you've singled out just the arm test at 29 mph.

The tests showed the taillight broke at other speeds, all of which used a dummy arm in some manner.

None of the arms was human however. All of them bounced off the taillight, just as a tennis ball would bounce off a racket. A human arm, being attached to a body, would have more resistance to being hit than a ball and racket, I believe Brennan termed it drag, I would phrase it as very brief entanglement as it broke through the plastic and then the body pulled away, for however brief of a fraction of a second. That is interaction with breaking acrylic, scraping. IMO

Until they can show the wounding doesn't happen, with a human body, which they probably never will, I will believe that hit on the taillight broke it and caused those scrapes. It's too coincidental, for me, that Welcher's arm test showed paint transferred onto him from that light, precisely where John's wounds were. Not underneath, not higher, not lower, but on the mid-section of the posterior aspect of his arm only. Not only that, but the absence of scrapes anywhere else also proves it, for me.

I also can't believe in the dog theory - a dog pulling skin with no lower teeth involved, no puncture/depth, wound sets that look completely different from each other (so no common characteristics between them), no wounds on the anterior arm, or anywhere else on his body, no canine DNA.

There is no evidence that John moved after reverse 1162. The scene around John's body, evidence in his clothing, plus his phone movement and battery temp, the taillight, John's DNA on it, 1162, and Karen, tells the story, BRD.

MOO

BBM
There is no way the taillight caused those wounds on JOKS arm. They would not make the pattern seen on it. The only reasonable explanation is that the dog did it and if that dog bit, the jury must aquit! Moo

 

[ShadyLady]

This is just my opinion...my recent post, and then the Tortoise's following post, lead me to believe....hung jury.

Well, hung jury might give DA excuse not to look for the REAL killers.

 

[mrjitty]

Do you think John's injuries are consistent with a car strike?

Do you think any evidence was planted in this case?

I came to case thinking it might be that time that law enforcement really did plant evidence.

I was also curious as to whether the sally port videos ought to lead to a dismissal.

 

[ShadyLady]

Do you think John's injuries are consistent with a car strike?

Do you think any evidence was planted in this case?

NO
YES
And the person that edited the Canton Sally Port video knows.
Who knew how to edit that system?

 

[Warwick7]

"those "celebrating" yesterday as compelling proof for the prosecution continue to misunderstand the concepts of burden of proof and reasonable doubt, which will be driven home in summation. That an experiment shows a taillight suffers modest shattering when hitting an arm at 24 MPH and more shattering at 29 MPH (but less than 47 pieces) is not "overwhelming proof" for the prosecution case. In fact it does little for them when considering the opinion of the experts and the following facts: (1) the diffusers are only severely damaged on Karen's SUV and in none of the experiments, (2) the taillight is not as severely damaged at 29 MPH as is Karen's SUV, (3) the hoody has no holes in the tests (except a straight on hit at 29 MPH and after being dragged on road/road rash), (4) testimony that the laws of physics make it impossible for the glass shards to have cut the hoody on impact, and (5) no broken bones and bruises (with 2 more experts still to go to buttress this obvious point). "It could have happened" and a grease paint test without compelling supportive proof do not come close to satisfying the necessary burden of proof."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1931327161161417095

 

[themonk]

I'm wondering if the CW will have the nerve for yet another trial if we get another hung jury. Starting to be a ton of anger from taxpayers in that area over the huge amount being spent in these 2 trials.

Covering up the rot? Priceless.

 

[themonk]

I came to case thinking it might be that time that law enforcement really did plant evidence.

I was also curious as to whether the sally port videos ought to lead to a dismissal.

And the car strike question, if I may ask?

 

[geevee]

I came to case thinking it might be that time that law enforcement really did plant evidence.

I was also curious as to whether the sally port videos ought to lead to a dismissal.

I thought surely it would lead to dismissal, how do they pull that stunt in front of the jury and not have that happen?

 

[Forest_Wood]

I'm focusing more on Dr Wolfe giving the jury that visual.

It was possible for Randy to break the taillight with his light arm, reel off the car, not suffer any lower body damage, not leave any damage on the side panels, twist his foot in the reeling around, and that was even with Randy being harnessed not to move away, which is a trajectory that reeling sets in motion.

He also left the jury with visuals of a large debris field.

IMO

Dr Wolfe's various videos show what you highlighted but from a direct impact and not a side swipe, with Randy just standing there with his arm out waiting to be hit. If he had seen her coming, he would have jumped. If he didn't see her coming, his arm would not have been out stretched.

At 24 mph, the damage to the taillight was inconsistent with her SUV and no damage to the internal diffusers except one small crack as well as no damage to the chrome piece. The front wheel then ran over his foot while spinning alongside the car. The debris field flew to the right side in a few pieces. Test E would be the most damaging to the defense I would think from a visual perspective only, not from his testimony though.

Just 5 mph faster at 29 mph resulted in major damage to the rear of the SUV (dents and a smashed rear windshield) and Randy stuck on the SUV and then experiencing severe road rash to his entire body/head/clothing with the debris field sliding straight backwards on the asphalt and not onto the yard.

MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

That’s a good question.
But I suppose a related question might be “Was a missing piece, or pieces, about the size of a dollar bill, found in JOK’s driveway, where the Lexus bumped into JOK’s car?”
And then, “If the taillight was partially broken in JOK’s driveway (but not found there), and there were enough pieces at 34FV to entirely (or almost entirely) reassemble the taillight, how did the dollar size piece(s) get from JOK’s driveway to 34FV?”
…..insert picture of MP here

The missing piece the size of a dollar could have dropped off her vehicle after she drove away from 1 Meadows. I don't know if that piece was ever found.
MOO

 

[shotgun09]

I thought surely it would lead to dismissal, how do they pull that stunt in front of the jury and not have that happen?

IMO, by someone who says " I'll allow it" frequently in this case.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I came to have interest in this case fairly recently, came in extremely open minded and not skewed by online dribble as I really hadn't read, researched, or paid any attention to the entire case.

I probably would have made a decent juror

I'm fully expecting another hung jury. Sorry folks, to those who think guilty here, I'm just not seeing it.

Unless, haha......JO was stumbling around the yard, with his sleeves rolled up, the dog cut across the lawn and bit up his arm, yankin' his sleeves back down.....he then lost balance and while screaming to have KR back up and get him, he flung his glass wildly at the dog, missed, but hit the car, bustin' out the tail light, causing it to shatter in to 47 pieces or thereabouts, and resulting in KR getting pzz'd off and throwin' it in reverse, whereby he loses balance at the curb, cuz everybody's drunk ya know, and she backs in to him, hitting only his arm, but maybe nickin' his forehead somehow, while he picks up a bunch of tail light lens in some manner (some of which embeds in his sleeve), swirls around a couple times, and stumbles back out in to the yard, carrying tail light lens pieces (thereby being scattered about), dropping his cell phone, landing on it and hitting his head on a stone or something in the grass there cutting him wide open, none of which was heard or seen by anybody in the house there at the party, or anyone else coming or going past the area, nary being seen by a snow plow operator, or anyone else for that matter for several hours, ad nauseum.

I’ve been following since Season 1 but came in partway through. I believed she was guilty because I didn’t think cops could possibly be this corrupt. Then, as more and more evidence trickled in I flipped completely to NG on all counts. I kept my mind open as the case progressed and continue to wait for evidence that she did it but there literally has been nothing.

She is dealing with a seriously biased judge, prosecution witnesses who are snarky and rude, prosecution witnesses who have helped the defence and a prosecution lawyer who is incredibly rude but whose strength is confusing the hell out of witnesses. He did it with Barros and to a degree with Wolfe yesterday. That’s all he’s got.

The biggest issue with people who are all in on Guilty x3 is they don’t seem to comprehend that the defence just needs to show the necessity of reasonable doubt. They don’t HAVE to prove who did it. They don’t HAVE to prove that the cops planted evidence. If she is found Not Guilty then that is up to the cops. I agree that we’re going to end up with a hung jury again. Even after hearing how engaged the jury is, unless AJ really drives the reasonable doubt point home, it only takes one that either doesn’t like her or ignores all the other evidence.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I'm wondering if the CW will have the nerve for yet another trial if we get another hung jury. Starting to be a ton of anger from taxpayers in that area over the huge amount being spent in these 2 trials.

I think they'd have to be insane and incompetent to try her a third time if there's a hung jury. Waste of time/money/resources/space and so on. They cannot prove it beyond a reasonable doubt IMO, ever, and that is due to a faulty and ineffective investigation from Day 1.
MOO

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Karen Read is guilty folk.

How do you explain the failure of any of the medical testimony that John O'Keefe wounds were from a car impact. We have two underdetermined and one not a car impact. (Brennan himself entered the 2nd underdetermined testimony during cross on Dr Russell)?

I have seen someone call Dr Scordi Bello lazy and that she was a bad ME. Basically, discredit the character of the ME if you don’t like the results. MOO

 

[arielilane]

Re: It wasnt good for the defense to have had Thursday off.

Visual over and over again of Rescue Randy getting side swiped/clipped clearly showed the senseless death of Officer John O’Keefe. It was right there! At the expense of JJO's loved (poor Mrs. O’Keefe) ones having to see it over and over again.

Also, seen by media and yt influencers, but will they still treat a murder defendant as a celebrity... yes, imo, I think so. Of course, gives more clicks, money, and so on, and pays bills.

The simple story of an alleged drunk driver, hit and run, does not. In addition, the defendant asked to see what the CW accusing her of, who wanted reenactment, "recreate that for us."


Additionally, the shattering of the taillight shards spoke volumes. Omg!

My own opinion- as always

Defendant asked for the visual… see news clip, if interested.

Karen Read: 'What is the commonwealth accusing me of?'​

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I came to have interest in this case fairly recently, came in extremely open minded and not skewed by online dribble as I really hadn't read, researched, or paid any attention to the entire case.

I probably would have made a decent juror

I'm fully expecting another hung jury. Sorry folks, to those who think guilty here, I'm just not seeing it.

Unless, haha......JO was stumbling around the yard, with his sleeves rolled up, the dog cut across the lawn and bit up his arm, yankin' his sleeves back down.....he then lost balance and while screaming to have KR back up and get him, he flung his glass wildly at the dog, missed, but hit the car, bustin' out the tail light, causing it to shatter in to 47 pieces or thereabouts, and resulting in KR getting pzz'd off and throwin' it in reverse, whereby he loses balance at the curb, cuz everybody's drunk ya know, and she backs in to him, hitting only his arm, but maybe nickin' his forehead somehow, while he picks up a bunch of tail light lens in some manner (some of which embeds in his sleeve), swirls around a couple times, and stumbles back out in to the yard, carrying tail light lens pieces (thereby being scattered about), dropping his cell phone, landing on it and hitting his head on a stone or something in the grass there cutting him wide open, none of which was heard or seen by anybody in the house there at the party, or anyone else coming or going past the area, nary being seen by a snow plow operator, or anyone else for that matter for several hours, ad nauseum.

Wow @statt#1 ! ….. superb and amazing analysis and theory. And if that was to happen as suggested, wonder how many Occam’s razors would it take to dice that up? MOO