MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #33 Retrial

[Leilei]

Of the people who were at 34F the night of who has been shown to have lied or been deceptive?

Or is it easier to name those who didn't lie /weren't deceptive?

Chloe didn't lie
IMO.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I really think they brought him into the basement while trying to figure out what to do then carried him out the bulkhead doors through the side gate in the yard hoping the ford edge would keep ring cameras from seeing them drag him through the gate in the yard

Do we know if they normally hung out in the basement? If they didn’t, i think they brought him down there after an argument occurred to get him out of sight. Did they renovate any other part of the home?

The "family room" in the basement was the only obviously renovated room when the Alberts put the house on the market. See Zillow for photos. As depicted in the photos, the house was tired, very lived-in looking. The only empty room was the family room with what appears to be brand new walls and carpet.

Recall in the last trial that Higgins denied being in the basement that night, but also denied going to the second floor of the house. And yet in the same testimony he said he went "upstairs" at one point because BA wanted to show him his son's military awards. So Higgins' claims cannot be true. Either he went from the basement to the first floor or from the first floor to the second floor to see these awards. My guess is it's the former, but either way it's another head-scratching deception on the part of a party-goer.

 

[ShadyLady]

The "family room" in the basement was the only obviously renovated room when the Alberts put the house on the market. See Zillow for photos. As depicted in the photos, the house was tired, very lived-in looking. The only empty room was the family room with what appears to be brand new walls and carpet.

Recall in the last trial that Higgins denied being in the basement that night, but also denied going to the second floor of the house. And yet in the same testimony he said he went "upstairs" at one point because BA wanted to show him his son's military awards. So Higgins' claims cannot be true. Either he went from the basement to the first floor or from the first floor to the second floor to see these awards. My guess is it's the former, but either way it's another head-scratching deception on the part of a party-goer.

And didn't BH say he saw a tall man walk into the house. And isn't BH besties with Berkowitz? And then add Dever said she saw BH and Berkowitz for a long time in the Sally Port? More clues?

WHY did BH lie about where he parked his jeep. No good reason. Just:
IMO

 

[geevee]

Right. But i will say that the study used 176lbs (inserted that mass into the equation) and a “light layer of clothing”

And temp used was 25 degrees F with 10mph winds
View attachment 592762

Cold Weather Survival Time – Body Physics: Motion to Metabolism

And not to mention is physical condition, with a severe head injury that very likely affected his bodily functions - heartbeat, breathing, etc. He should have been much colder if he'd been out there that long, and the ambulance warming imo cannot account for that 80* temp.

 

[keek]

So i talked with my husband about what they could have potentially been fighting about. I told him I believed the theory that they were mad about something involving law enforcement. (OJO was going to report something, maybe, for example. We know these folks are corrupt….)

I told my husband i didn’t believe grown men this age would argue over a woman and told him about KR and BH’s text messages that night and John’s kiss on the forehead happening right in front of BH’s face then some arm motions later that looked to be aggressive in some way. I reenacted the arm motions and said I just don’t think a grown man in public would be like “bring it man” over a woman. I STILL can’t figure out what the arm motions were about. It could have been a reenactment. I could have been anything. But OJO was looking right at Higgins it seems when this took place, right? He was standing in front of KR at the bar with his head turned to his left as if to be watching something. After a few seconds he kind of directs his head to the ground. It seems like he could have been thinking “THIS guy…what a tool.” You know what i mean? Again this is all speculation - what the motions were about and what OJO could have been thinking.

ANNNNNY, way, my husband was like “oh now that you’ve told me about the texts etc, I absolutely think it was over a woman!” He said, “Drunk men fight all the time over women!” This fight was one that just went terribly wrong, as many do. No one planned on killing anyone. He said “it happens a lot but we just don’t hear about it. In lots of fights people end up SERIOUSLY injured or dead when that wasn’t the intention, especially when it involves groups of men amping each other up.” Then I showed him pics of the men and he said, “Yeh, big guys drunk and amped up — there are SO many ways John could have ended up on the back of his head.”

<modsnip>

Anyway, just throwing that out there. I didn’t think grown men really fought over women. According to my husband, I’m wrong. And from the local case, we can assume it doesn’t take much to split a head open accidentally. I reallllly want to see the wound on the back of the 26 year old’s head to compare.

Yes, ego, feeling of being played, jealousy do not go away in the human psyche. Hard for you son or anyone seeing something or someone needs help on the other hand, to walk away. If it looks like help is there or on the way, a 911 call or yell for someone to do that, then leave. Yell FIRE anytime is supposed to CALM the sitch anywhere as unexpected and a chance for a victim to get away, especially children and women. FIre~ (read that in a keep safe etc article from LE).

 

[Spider92]

…..so hard to remember everything….does the defense acknowledge that the SUV backed up 60-80 feet at 20+ mph in front of 42FV or is that in dispute?

 

[themonk]

Chloe didn't lie
IMO.

Alright, there's one!

 

[KSwizzle]

…..so hard to remember everything….does the defense acknowledge that the SUV backed up 60-80 feet at 20+ mph in front of 42FV or is that in dispute?

It’s whatever the CW wants, they get to just change times, locations, speeds, whatever on a whim. They still have no proof JoK was hit by a car but they sure are having fun with schroedingers taillight

Moo

 

[justwannahelp]

I've seen recent sm posts opining that Dr Wolfe's testimony was a win for the CW and literally wondering (wide eyed apparently) why on earth Jackson kicked an own goal. Really? It's hard to take the apparent wonderment at face value and not conclude disingenuity is at play.

IMO. Brennan tried desperately to muddy the waters and actually spar with Wolfe over his knowledge of physics at one point! I think that not for one minute have the jury failed to notice Brennan's desperate and aggressive demeanour and the fact that on what he seems to have thought were 'gotcha' moments, he was in reality obtusely blocking Wolfe from providing the only answers possible.

Brennan kept repeating questions which were literally senseless, ignoring Dr Wolfe's attempts to shown him why. The jury can't have been blind to what was going on, although from what Bederow reports, there are ofcourse people watching who are either deliberately or obtusely misrepresenting Wolfe's testimony.

As for the misdirection attempted by Brennan over the hoodie and some of the different test results, AJ has already addressed that in redirect.

Imo below are the main points established from direct, cross and start of redirect;

* No damage to the right arm of the hoodie from tail light pieces or shards of any size during any of the various scenarios tested using the ATD arm and/or full ATD.

* In all test scenarios with some more obvious than others, inconsistent damage between the test Lexus tail light and the tail light from KR's Lexus in the custody of MSP. The diffusers were totally destroyed on KR's tail light. Only during the 29 m/ph centre of mass impact to the ATD arm was there any damage to the diffusers on the exemplar and this was simply a crack to the housing of one, not the diffusers themselves. But forget the diffusers. The other damage sustained to the rear in the direct impact scenario was very obviously entirely inconsistent with the rear area of KR's Lexus in custody of the MSP ( huge dents etc).

,* The ATD arm weighing two pounds less than the statistical norm for a male ATD arm has no relevance in the context of the physics of the kinetic forces. Whether 9 or 11 pounds or something in between, if the arm is impacted as contended by the cw it will travel at the same speed as the Lexus when initially hit.
Brennan's muddied attempt to match Dr Wolfe on this point has already been flushed out as the ruse it is by Jackson on redirect.

* Jackson has similarly already demolished the other non-point Brennan attempted on cross. The ATD arm when impacted, immediately moves away from the tail light. The only way tail light fragments could make contact with the arm, pierce the hoodie and cause any marks at all on the arm is if they travelled at speeds in excess of the arm. Dr Wolfe stated that in his expert opinion this quite simply is not kinetically or physically possible. I mean even a lay person can understand the common sense of this but to have the witness state not possible is very powerful nonetheless. Moo

Finally, Dr Wolfe is one half of the coin. Dr Rentschler will cover the arm injuries once Dr Wolfe's testimony is concluded. Moo

BBM

& when he tried to spar with Dr. Marie Russell, i was like GIVE IT UP! This woman has credentials coming out the WAZOO! She is a REALLY accomplished woman and physician. And to have worked in a jail for years with MANY dog bite cases. What other doc has THAT, Coroner, ER doc, Professor, Sworn BOSTON police officer & CHIEF of medicine under his or her belt?! Like she said, I doubt there’s ANY medical doctor more qualified to testify in this case due to her unique set of jobs COMBINED. Sure a dog trainer could as well, but a dog trainer isn’t an ME and ER doc qualified to say nope those wounds are NOT consistent with a car accident because a car accident would have caused XY&Z. He was trying to make her seem arrogant and it REALLY made me angry. I didn’t find her arrogant at all for one, but i also don’t care if someone IS arrogant when they have every right to be, and Dr. Marie has every right to be. She was a great teacher and eager to teach. Nothing arrogant about her testimony.

Maybe the defense should call a dog trainer to testify that the wounds are indeed dog bites just to shove it in Brennan’s face!

Brennan, with REALLY stupid and irrelevant reasons, is constantly insinuating every defense witness is biased or not capable and/or credible. SO many things should have been objected to for irrelevance during Brennan’s cross of many witnesses. So what if Dr wolfe’s wife has an opinion. Dr Wolfe has an opinion too, based on his expertise. So what if lucky talked to TB? He knows what his eyes did and didn’t see, therefore he KNOWS KR is innocent. & so what if Dr. Marie is now retired and making a living as an expert witness. It’s a respectable NECESSARY for justice to prevail job and ages of retirement age. We NEED expert witnesses, and they SHOULD be paid just as the lawyers are paid. Plenty of lawyers don’t really think a defendant is guilty but they still take the money and prosecute. Some lawyers even think their client is guilty but they defend and take the money anyway because that’s their JOB.

I used to be a bookkeeper at a med malpractice defense firm, and neurosurgeons were paid 850 an HOUR for their time spent traveling, in depositions, and on the stand. They were paid whatever they COULD have been earning hourly in surgery. It was often a hassle for them, but they believed in what they were doing - attempting to help justice prevail. & i personally know someone who works at a med mal firm— not defense, and they too pay their experts accordingly. And those expert physicians also believe in what they are doing - helping justice prevail.

I’m like this is how it works, Brennan. Duh! But I guess it’s all Brennan has left - convince the jury these witnesses are not being honest because they’re being paid. He can’t really do that with AARCA, however. Ha!

 

[rescuemom]

I think they'd have to be insane and incompetent to try her a third time if there's a hung jury. Waste of time/money/resources/space and so on. They cannot prove it beyond a reasonable doubt IMO, ever, and that is due to a faulty and ineffective investigation from Day 1.
MOO

Agree. They didn't want to do an investigation. They don't want a defense. IMO, they can be both insane and incompetent. Toss in slimy, low rent and corrupt. Her name needs to be cleared.

It's my understanding that when the FBI did the initial study...for whatever reason and I'd like to know what started it ...they turned the results over to both CW and Defense. Also, the FBI recommended no charges against KR. The CW didn't use the study but then brought charges against her anyway.

It will never make sense but yet between the 1162 trigger and the blue paint, the crowd is going wild in both directions trying to put a square peg into a round hole. I'm really weary of all of the science, period. Can't read one more word.

In the end an innocent man doing his job of plowing the roads one snowy night in Mass was going to be the pidgeon for this until an innocent woman who was in the wrong place at the wrong time fit the bill. Then it was game on.

 

[rescuemom]

BBM - great point comparing flying loose teeth and flying plastic

I do think JOK’s body temp IS relevant to the case because what OJO’s was upon arrival to the hospital proves it was impossible for him to have been out there in those conditions for 5.5hrs. Impossible. So he couldn’t have been hit by KR around 12:30am. If they were trying to prove she hit him at 4am, maybe….but that’s not the case. & there’s proof she was not there at 4am.

& to ME, the science necessary to understand core body temp is MUCH easier than all these recreated car accidents, and MUCH more to the point & without gray area, therefore believable.

These accident reconstructions are just GUESSES because there’s no proof of an accident even occurring. They don’t REALLY know where the car was and what it did. Techstream and black boxes are not precise (& i believe can be tampered with). I do not trust these particular officers. Nothing they say is believable based on their proven lies and shady behavior. So I’m looking for concrete evidence.

Body temp upon arrival cannot be tampered with, unless the ER nurse flat out lied or meant to put -.08 rather than 80.

I wouldn’t say the body temp would prove anything if it was SORT OF CLOSE to what it would have been if he was out there exposed for 5.5 hours. But it was no where NEAR what body temp would be in those conditions after 5.5 hours. He would have been 32 degrees F, yet he was 80F

I REALLY hope the defense calls in a body temp “expert” - a doctor who deals with hypothermia would do. It’s really easy to understand and proves OJO was sheltered SOMEWHERE for at LEAST 3 hours.

The only way I can “force” his body temp with the theory KR hit him around 12:30 is if someone pulled him in from the lawn after impact, gave him shelter/warmth for 3 or more hours, then put him back outside on the lawn. She (if she had hit him) would have been the only person with motive to do that. The motive being try to save him without people knowing she hit him. But we KNOW she didn’t do any of this because of ring cams and her cell phone. Anyone else who brought him indoors would not have a reason to call 911 immediately because they didn’t run over him.

So where did he get warmth for at least 3 hours? Technically, it doesn’t matter to this case. Just knowing he was sheltered AT ALL is enough to prove KR didn’t hit him

And the wounds are CLEARLY dog bites IMO. The SETS of parallel lines repeating themselves all over his arm. It’s obvious it wasn’t tail light, and looks EXACTLY like the wounds of other dog attack victims as you stated earlier. The only way to force the dog bites into the theory of KR hitting him around 12:30am is if a dog bit him while he was lying on the lawn after impact, which isn’t impossible. But there’s STILL that body temp proving he wasn’t on the lawn for 5.5 hours…..

The defense is pushing dog bites and I totally agree. When or how is the dog of this evidence going to be introduced??

 

[HarmonyE.]

And didn't BH say he saw a tall man walk into the house. And isn't BH besties with Berkowitz? And then add Dever said she saw BH and Berkowitz for a long time in the Sally Port? More clues?

WHY did BH lie about where he parked his jeep. No good reason. Just:
IMO

I know it's looking doubtful, but I'd really like to see the defense call Higgins for these and other reasons. (Phone destruction the day before the preservation letter arrived, his angry gestures at the Waterfall directed at JO, the illegal use of FBI equipment to extract data from his phone....)

He did indeed tell the grand jury that he saw a tall, dark haired man enter the house. Confirmed at the last trial. Covering his butt in the event one of BA Jr's friends (whom he likely did not know at the time of the GJ) said they saw an unknown tall man enter the house when he (Higgins) was also present?

As for the lie about the Jeep at 34 Fairview, I think that was concocted in an attempt to discredit the three witnesses in Ricky D's vehicle who all claimed they clearly saw Karen alone in the Lexus with no body on the lawn. If the Jeep was in between, they must all be lying or otherwise mistaken about what they claim they saw! Sure, let's believe Higgins over three people who have no reason to lie.

 

[rescuemom]

The sallyport photo shows shattered diffuser but ARCCA’s testing demonstrated that this type of impact wouldn’t cause that kind of damage. The Ring video from 1 Meadows driveway confirms the diffusers were still intact when the car was parked before seizure. IMO Proctor wasn’t satisfied with red plastic alone. He tried to be thorough, and critically overreached.

IMO, MP is not smart enough to know which and what part to destroy. Neither did YB.

 

[AngTxGal]

I was so very interested, and looking forward to seeing MM on the stand. He was listed in the defense's witness list, but...I suppose things have changed...

things that make you go hmmmmm....

Is Defense Expected to Wrap Up on Tuesday?

Who is left?

- ARCCA biomechanics expert
- BA? BH? MP?
- Maybe a surprise witness- a woman who was attached by Chloe in the Albert’s front yard?
- Maybe a forensic pathologist or Medical examiner- explaining that a body in sub freezing temps can’t be 80F after five hours of exposure?

Anyone else?

 

[MerlinFalcon]

The defense is pushing dog bites and I totally agree. When or how is the dog of this evidence going to be introduced??

The dog vanished into thin air. Yuri said he tracked her down but even if he did and it really was Chloe, who’s to say how they could prove it was her? All we know is Jen M said Chloe wasn’t in the bedroom but in Season 1 Brian Albert said she was. We know this but the jurors don’t know what happened then so unless they call him to the stand, he won’t speak to the situation.

 

[AngTxGal]

Yes, I've seen that over and over again also. It's the same tactic that Brennan uses on the stand with defense witnesses and sometimes even his own witnesses if they can't agree with him. I've also noticed those who try to invoke sympathy for JOKs family. The evidence doesn't match their flawed narrative so they try to use other tactics to interfere with the right of Karen Read to an honest and thorough trial.
MOO

Resorting to personal attacks is a Giant Red Blinking Flag that a mind is closed and they’ve run out of intellectual reasons to judge evidence on face value.
In the day of internet and social media people seem to have resorted to middle school critical thinking skills- and drama.
A man died way too young
A family is grieving
A woman is up on charges that could put her in prison for a very long time
And the people’s trust in public servants and the justice system is low

What will justice look like??
KR Not Guilty
civil suits
CPD investigation

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

The dog vanished into thin air. Yuri said he tracked her down but even if he did and it really was Chloe, who’s to say how they could prove it was her? All we know is Jen M said Chloe wasn’t in the bedroom but in Season 1 Brian Albert said she was. We know this but the jurors don’t know what happened then so unless they call him to the stand, he won’t speak to the situation.

Supposedly Chloe attacked some other people.

If that victim/s were found and it happened in the front yard of the Alberts, because Chloe escaped the back fence at night… Hmmm

Also- Chloe’s location is supposed to be a known. Some farm in Vermont

Resample JOKs clothing and shoes and test for blood and hair
Run blood samples for DNA, dog DNA
Make any hair and DNA comparisons to Chloe
If Chloe can’t be found- she may have a pedigree- test and compare DNA of Chloe’s parents

Throw somebody’s lying ars in prison!

IMO

 

[rescuemom]

Re: It wasnt good for the defense to have had Thursday off.

Visual over and over again of Rescue Randy getting side swiped/clipped clearly showed the senseless death of Officer John O’Keefe. It was right there! At the expense of JJO's loved (poor Mrs. O’Keefe) ones having to see it over and over again.

Also, seen by media and yt influencers, but will they still treat a murder defendant as a celebrity... yes, imo, I think so. Of course, gives , and pays bills.

The simple story of an alleged drunk driver, hit and run, does not. In addition, the defendant asked to see what the CW accusing her of, who wanted reenactment, "recreate that for us."


Additionally, the shattering of the taillight shards spoke volumes. Omg!

My own opinion- as always

Defendant asked for the visual… see news clip, if interested.

Karen Read: 'What is the commonwealth accusing me of?'​

IMO, Hank needed the day off to come up with his illustrious cross of the expert who DID 'recreate it for us.' In the end it was a bust for Hank. He literally could not handle it. Can the cameras pick up the spittle that comes out of his mouth??? So immature, he projects his slime with every word.

IMO, the defendent didn't want any of this. The drunk p*nk* in the basement would have brought more clicks, money, and so on. The simple story is that with the biased judge, liars, perjurers, and the experts no one else wants, the CW is just mediocre if that.

 

[themonk]

What will justice look like??
KR Not Guilty
civil suits
CPD investigation

IMO

RSBM

Don't forget 'judge removed for misconduct'

​

 

[Spider92]

Sorry for the double post, but hoping to get a serious answer this time….does the defense acknowledge that the SUV backed up 60-80 feet at 20+ mph in front of 42FV or is that in dispute?

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