MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #33 Retrial

[AngTxGal]

I'm focusing more on Dr Wolfe giving the jury that visual.

It was possible for Randy to break the taillight with his light arm, reel off the car, not suffer any lower body damage, not leave any damage on the side panels, twist his foot in the reeling around, and that was even with Randy being harnessed not to move away, which is a trajectory that reeling sets in motion.

He also left the jury with visuals of a large debris field.

IMO

Randy- (name should be Vince or Larry) is not an anatomical stand in for a living human
If Randy had been he would have been filled with sensors to measure all kinds of impact forces- not been used for damage comparison.
I’ve seen pig carcasses uses for such tests- but as there was no damage to JOK, there is no reason to do such tests.
Did John have a twisted foot? Or foot or lower leg injury of any kind? No

As the debris field of the taillight fragments seems to have not been photographed, with fragments marked in their location- that info is unavailable for comparison. How big was the debris field?

A comparison of piece shapes and sizes could also be done. If someone tampered with the taillight- did they contacted it with an impact size and force that would make it break in a way to cause the debris field Wolfe saw?
What if they poked a hole and began knocking pieces out- used a bat or golf club the results would be very different.

IMO

 

[rescuemom]

The main issue with this case is THE D.A. issss the actual problem and trickled down, all under his say. I would check that out so that you see no, the D.A. is the one here under investigation by the FBI and the communications back and forth with prosc. 'witnesses'.. He is absol not interested.. hence the big and hard lock her upness all the way down. WHY is the question as usual here, why. IMO

I totally agree but HOW does getting a guilty verdict on a case that the FBI didn't recommend charging in the first place get MM out from underneath the FBI investigation???

 

[lohrtabitha]

Supposedly Chloe attacked some other people.

If that victim/s were found and it happened in the front yard of the Alberts, because Chloe escaped the back fence at night… Hmmm

Also- Chloe’s location is supposed to be a known. Some farm in Vermont

Resample JOKs clothing and shoes and test for blood and hair
Run blood samples for DNA, dog DNA
Make any hair and DNA comparisons to Chloe
If Chloe can’t be found- she may have a pedigree- test and compare DNA of Chloe’s parents

IMO

It would be real interesting to see the damage that Chloe did to the neighbors she attacked. There has to be photos? I wonder why the defense didn't try to get a hold of them.

 

[AngTxGal]

Also Karen's tail light was proven to broken that morning and it's been proven it was not done in the driveway at 1M, and the first 6-7 pieces were recovered by SERT too soon for any staging to be possible from the impounded Lexus at the Sallyport.

The defendant must have broken the tail light at 34F when she dropped John off and drive high speed in reverse. I don't see that can be disputed now.

Now sure you can claim the defendant backed into Higgin's jeep or some other theory, but i can't see how you get that into evidence when the defendant has video taped interviews saying none of that happened.

MOO

I think ‘proven’ is a bit strong.

The photo images of the taillight at different times are not conclusive to me
Witnesses (cop and Mr Read) have said the taillight was cracked not broken out- before it was towed

I don’t know the time when SERT collected pieces from the yard- when was that?
Wasn’t the car towed that evening or late afternoon?

Agree- Could KR have hit something else that broke the taillight that wasn’t JOK? I don’t see evidence it had to be JOK’s body that broke it.

I see zero mandatory link between the taillight and JOK’s death! It is timeline and location
The timeline is very tight
The body was found near the taillight pieces

Something is missing

IMO

 

[keek]

I totally agree but HOW does getting a guilty verdict on a case that the FBI didn't recommend charging in the first place get MM out from underneath the FBI investigation???

It makes no sense but MM etc. there, def believe it is well, well worth it to get a Guilty something for KR against all kinds of evidence showing very otherwise. Anyone would of done, her, plower, but do NOT go looking at BA or his relative or his house inside. This is the big WHY. SO weird to us at this time. Favors of hugeness must of been called in. This goes to the top of Boston PD as we just saw, and the D.A. of Norfolk County. Why keep any slight hint of evil doing at B.A.'s house?

 

[rescuemom]

I imagine, alllll sorts of "favors" being called in. Who has "what" on who/whom?

Drugs, guns, what? I think CA seemed to get a very light sentence for hit and run, what other favors are out there?

If FBI really did close case on Karen, it obviously does not mean there isn't a bigger case pending at the end of this case. IMO

Boston, this is looking bad....

I don't know if the FBI has closed, or paused the case. There has to be more than one investigation in Norfolk County. Some say they are waiting for a verdict in this trial. Any verdict, no matter if it's the right verdict?? Are they watching the continuence of what was maybe part of the investigation in the first place? I have no idea what they are waiting to see or hear and meanwhile a case is on for the second time against their recommendations. SMH

 

[rescuemom]

I was so very interested, and looking forward to seeing MM on the stand. He was listed in the defense's witness list, but...I suppose things have changed...

things that make you go hmmmmm....

The cross would really be interesting. Hank would really step in it!

 

[AngTxGal]

"Jen went over to Karen, kind of put her arm around her, and she's like, 'Karen, you're coming with me. You're coming with me,'" Kolokithas testified. "And Karen's like, ‘What?...Where are we going?’"

"It just was strange," she testified. "It was just like, 'You're coming with me.'"

See I could interpret that differently.

Wasn’t this the first time Jen and Karen had met?
Wasn’t it the first time John had hung out with that crowd?
Wasn’t Jen the basketball coach of John’s niece? Isnt’ that right?

Jen’s actions would be consistent with someone wanting to welcome John and Karen into the group? Not necessarily nefarious.

Jen is a peculiar personality- I’ve watched her testimony…
I was raised in a small town and I remember Moms that were like Jen. A bit bored, likes to stir things up and watch the drama… kinda like some 14 and 15 yr old girls.

IMO

 

[rescuemom]

Curious if the defense concede following:

-- “2:27 am google search "hos long to die in cold”
-- KR's Lexus hit John’s Chevy Traverse


No RG testimony at all. Google search debunked.
ARCCA basically showed the jury what happened to JJO.

moo

Why should they??

 

[rescuemom]

And add in the variable for amount of clothing. John was not dressed for the weather.

Interesting but no one in the Albert house gave a thought to any of this.

 

[AngTxGal]

Right. But i will say that the study used 176lbs (inserted that mass into the equation) and a “light layer of clothing”

And temp used was 25 degrees F with 10mph winds
View attachment 592762

Cold Weather Survival Time – Body Physics: Motion to Metabolism

I have speculated that the head injury could have caused seizures- because he vomitted.
It would informative to hear from a medical examiner if that was the case and if seizures could prolong the time for hypothermia.
I’ve been present for about ten grand mal seizures. Some are so violent- all the muscles are firing, and they are seizures so the brain is full of random electrical impulses.

Does that movement and electrical activity slow hypothermia?

I don’t know.

IMO

 

[keek]

I don't know if the FBI has closed, or paused the case. There has to be more than one investigation in Norfolk County. Some say they are waiting for a verdict in this trial. Any verdict, no matter if it's the right verdict?? Are they watching the continuence of what was maybe part of the investigation in the first place? I have no idea what they are waiting to see or hear and meanwhile a case is on for the second time against their recommendations. SMH

I am pretty sure KR's atty's etc. know a or the reason since a while back. More to be played out at least once the jury decides and verdict read, in time. MM knew that the FBI was investigating his office. Don't know of course what exactly for or how many 'fors'. Have ideas but then hopefully they will become public and I AM SURE they will here in MA. Def our local Boston news etc will be jumping with it forever. It is that we have to wait this nightmare in general out for a while. Mainly, the deserved NG for one. IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Re: It wasnt good for the defense to have had Thursday off.

Visual over and over again of Rescue Randy getting side swiped/clipped clearly showed the senseless death of Officer John O’Keefe. It was right there! At the expense of JJO's loved (poor Mrs. O’Keefe) ones having to see it over and over again.

Also, seen by media and yt influencers, but will they still treat a murder defendant as a celebrity... yes, imo, I think so. Of course, gives more clicks, money, and so on, and pays bills.

The simple story of an alleged drunk driver, hit and run, does not. In addition, the defendant asked to see what the CW accusing her of, who wanted reenactment, "recreate that for us."


Additionally, the shattering of the taillight shards spoke volumes. Omg!

My own opinion- as always

Defendant asked for the visual… see news clip, if interested.

Karen Read: 'What is the commonwealth accusing me of?'​

Agreed- those videos have been everywhere. Visuals are always powerful
And… interpreted in many ways different from what I saw and think. People wont’ bother to listen to what Wolfe says, they will think they see evidence for their side.

They will listen to what social media presents as GotCha moments and replay them.

People will talk and process and convince each other- and make up their mind before the Biomechanical Expert- which I think is Monday, and I”m confident will say- No Way a taillight can break on a human arm going 10-30 mph without causing broken bones in the fingers, hand, lower arm, and upper arm- not to mention damage to shoulder, maybe back…

IMO

 

[cocomod]

That’s a good question.
But I suppose a related question might be “Was a missing piece, or pieces, about the size of a dollar bill, found in JOK’s driveway, where the Lexus bumped into JOK’s car?”
And then, “If the taillight was partially broken in JOK’s driveway (but not found there), and there were enough pieces at 34FV to entirely (or almost entirely) reassemble the taillight, how did the dollar size piece(s) get from JOK’s driveway to 34FV?”
…..insert picture of MP here

Stop being so darn logical!!

That is honestly a great question that the LE just cannot answer! Plus, where did the extra pieces come from?

 

[keek]

Why should they??

Debunked is def matter of opinion not fact, there are two different or perhaps 3 mindsets on this. IMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Just jumping in to say that in my previous post I typed he would have been 0 degrees F. I meant 0 degrees C or 32 degrees F. I know I’ve posted this chart a lot, but I’ve seen a few new names today so am posting again. Here’s where I’m getting this from
View attachment 592761

Cold Weather Survival Time – Body Physics: Motion to Metabolism

That's excellent. Thank you for posting that. I converted the temps to F to compare.
So, is it accurate that after 2-1/2 hours, the body temperature would be expected to drop to about 56F-58F and a person would have zero survival rate lower than this point?
His temperature was about 80F at the hospital which is on the cusp of Moderate to Severe Hypothermia after 5-1/2 hours. I wonder if him getting warmed up in the ambulance affected his temperature registering at 80F at hospital.

 

[AngTxGal]

I've seen recent sm posts opining that Dr Wolfe's testimony was a win for the CW and literally wondering (wide eyed apparently) why on earth Jackson kicked an own goal. Really? It's hard to take the apparent wonderment at face value and not conclude disingenuity is at play.

IMO. Brennan tried desperately to muddy the waters and actually spar with Wolfe over his knowledge of physics at one point! I think that not for one minute have the jury failed to notice Brennan's desperate and aggressive demeanour and the fact that on what he seems to have thought were 'gotcha' moments, he was in reality obtusely blocking Wolfe from providing the only answers possible.

Brennan kept repeating questions which were literally senseless, ignoring Dr Wolfe's attempts to shown him why. The jury can't have been blind to what was going on, although from what Bederow reports, there are ofcourse people watching who are either deliberately or obtusely misrepresenting Wolfe's testimony.

As for the misdirection attempted by Brennan over the hoodie and some of the different test results, AJ has already addressed that in redirect.

Imo below are the main points established from direct, cross and start of redirect;

* No damage to the right arm of the hoodie from tail light pieces or shards of any size during any of the various scenarios tested using the ATD arm and/or full ATD.

* In all test scenarios with some more obvious than others, inconsistent damage between the test Lexus tail light and the tail light from KR's Lexus in the custody of MSP. The diffusers were totally destroyed on KR's tail light. Only during the 29 m/ph centre of mass impact to the ATD arm was there any damage to the diffusers on the exemplar and this was simply a crack to the housing of one, not the diffusers themselves. But forget the diffusers. The other damage sustained to the rear in the direct impact scenario was very obviously entirely inconsistent with the rear area of KR's Lexus in custody of the MSP ( huge dents etc).

,* The ATD arm weighing two pounds less than the statistical norm for a male ATD arm has no relevance in the context of the physics of the kinetic forces. Whether 9 or 11 pounds or something in between, if the arm is impacted as contended by the cw it will travel at the same speed as the Lexus when initially hit.
Brennan's muddied attempt to match Dr Wolfe on this point has already been flushed out as the ruse it is by Jackson on redirect.

* Jackson has similarly already demolished the other non-point Brennan attempted on cross. The ATD arm when impacted, immediately moves away from the tail light. The only way tail light fragments could make contact with the arm, pierce the hoodie and cause any marks at all on the arm is if they travelled at speeds in excess of the arm. Dr Wolfe stated that in his expert opinion this quite simply is not kinetically or physically possible. I mean even a lay person can understand the common sense of this but to have the witness state not possible is very powerful nonetheless. Moo

Finally, Dr Wolfe is one half of the coin. Dr Rentschler will cover the arm injuries once Dr Wolfe's testimony is concluded. Moo

I could see a public who lives on sound bites and memes would simply watch a portion of one of the videos and conclude a great deal from what they saw- and few of those conclusions would be accurate.
But- that doesn’t mean the jury was that shallow… So the public may not be a great judge of what is happening in the minds of those 12 people.

IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

Interesting but no one in the Albert house gave a thought to any of this.

Well...maybe Jen?

 

[Forest_Wood]

"Jen went over to Karen, kind of put her arm around her, and she's like, 'Karen, you're coming with me. You're coming with me,'" Kolokithas testified. "And Karen's like, ‘What?...Where are we going?’"

"It just was strange," she testified. "It was just like, 'You're coming with me.'"

That was so profound that KK said that! It stood out to her how strange it was. I don't imagine they are still friends. It didn't seem KK was impressed by JenMc's family after meeting them all at the bar. She asked her husband where all the other basketball moms were when she got there.

 

[themonk]

Can we really rule out Jen McCabe for the bite marks?