MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #33 Retrial

[nodamselindistress]

Seems to be some confusion over Caitlin Albert and her boyfriend, Tristan Morris. TM states when he received the texts/calls (his memory is very bad) from "high maintenance" Caitlin, he drove HER JEEP CHEROKEE to pick her up in Canton and take her back to Easton. Not a Ford Edge. He may have owned or does now own a Ford Edge, but it was NOT what he drove that night to pick her up.

ETA; He also states they live together and have been together about 8 yrs.

Time stamp 46:10

Tristan Morris testimony - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[Moe]

Do we have any idea when this case is going to wrap up?

 

[HarmonyE.]

Seems to be some confusion over Caitlin Albert and her boyfriend, Tristan Morris. TM states when he received the texts/calls (his memory is very bad) from "high maintenance" Caitlin, he drove HER JEEP CHEROKEE to pick her up in Canton and take her back to Easton. Not a Ford Edge. He may have owned or does now own a Ford Edge, but it was NOT what he drove that night to pick her up.

Time stamp 46:10

Tristan Morris testimony - Search Videos

www.bing.com

I'd never heard Morris had an Edge, so I think whoever said he drove one was probably just mistaken. (However, the Alberts were fond of Ford Edges and owned two at the time.)

Regardless of the make and model of the vehicle, if Lucky is correct about the location of the SUV he saw near the flagpole, whoever put that vehicle there put it there for a specific reason. And whatever that reason was, it wasn't because it wouldn't fit in the oversized driveway after all the party goers had left. Lucky's testimony is hugely important here, and I expect much to be made of it in the defense's closing.

 

[jepop]

Seems to be some confusion over Caitlin Albert and her boyfriend, Tristan Morris. TM states when he received the texts/calls (his memory is very bad) from "high maintenance" Caitlin, he drove HER JEEP CHEROKEE to pick her up in Canton and take her back to Easton. Not a Ford Edge. He may have owned or does now own a Ford Edge, but it was NOT what he drove that night to pick her up.

ETA; He also states they live together and have been together about 8 yrs.

Time stamp 46:10

Tristan Morris testimony - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Right, it wasn't Tristan's Ford Edge Lucky saw. It was never there that night.

 

[AngTxGal]

This is not quite accurate.

1. Yes, the EDR data is not contested by the defense or the CW. The EDR data responsible for logging collisions, impacts, deployment events, etc. did not log ANY events. 1162-2 is a reference to VCH data, not EDR.

2. The vast majority of this data was in trial 1. The only controversy about the key cycle came from the CW's expert witness testifying, under oath, about his testing on key cycle 1164

b) "ocurred within some number of feet" - 4,752 feet, or .9 miles to be exact. The drive from 34 Fairview to 1 Meadows is between 2.3 and 2.7 miles, depending on routes. KR could have been nearly half the way home when reversing. Not merely a difference of a few feet. The CW also has no foundation or data to argue where the specific reversing event occurred. It's not a matter of the defense "disputing" when in fact the CW has provided zero evidence or proof for any location.

"I think you see this in their case. ARCCA would not recreate a reversing accident at 24mph if the defence case was this speed never occurred."

I think you're missing the entire point of our legal system if this is your takeaway. The purpose of the defense's case and witnesses are to refute what the prosecution is alleging. When the CW is arguing such a ridiculous non-theory of what happened, the simplest and cleanest route to take is pointing out all the ways it couldn't possibly happen the way the CW claims. 24pmh is what the CW claimed, naturally that is what ARCCA needs to focus on.

A minor point but based on HB's cross of Wolfe, it seems the CW isn't claiming the speed was 24mph anymore, changing their theory yet again during the trial.

Interesting!
So you are saying CW has no evidence of when OR where the Lexus reverse event happened?

I would like to see the evidence brought to a judge for KR arrest, and what was brought to the DA who warrant this case going to trial.

It would include these things, I suppose- and then more in digital evidence.
Yeah I see why this seems enough to investigate, but taillight is the solid reason to focus on KR.

- testimony/ video that KR and JOK had been drinking
- testimony that KR was driving and JOK riding with KR to Fairview
- witness location and timing of KR Lexus in front of the house
- KR arrives back at JOKs alone
- KRs texts/ voicemails angry at JOK
- KR leaves JOKs the next morning alone, calls she can’t find JOK
- JOK body found in front of Fairview
- taillight pieces in snow near body found
- KR saying she may have hit him
- KR Lexus broken taillight
- testimony that JOK did not come into the 34 Fairview house

IMO

 

[jepop]

Karen first parked by the driveway. Per Ryan's testimony, he was the driver that pulled up just after her, behind her. THEN she pulled up about a car length, probably because she saw them behind her. I think as soon as she first pulled up by the driveway, John jumped out and headed for the front door. Ryan and crew would not have seen JOhn approach the house as there were cars in the driveway which would have block their view. 90ft. Into the house.

This is what occurred Imo. John got out immediately and walked towards the house. KR pulled up further towards the flag pole when RN and co. pulled in behind her. I'm glad RN testified this trial. Moo

 

[missy1974]

Lucky says he wouldn't have seen a body where John was later found because this vehicle was blocking his view of that area. So near the flagpole presumably.

The SUV could also have been used an attempt to block the street view of two men carrying out John's body from the gate on that side of the backyard fence. Why risk getting John's DNA in anyone's vehicle. Athough Tristan Morris's vehicle would have been a fairly safe one to use. He wasn't at the party that night and the Alberts first lied and said Caitlin had left hours before she actually did. So no one would have been asking him any questions the next morning.

I would have to watch his testimony again but I thought he said he would have seen him because, one, he can see over the car, two, when he had to move back in front of the car his lights would have been even more angled to that area. He said the edge was in front of the front door, a few feet one way or the other....I can't remember lol

I don't think the car was right where JOK was found?

I will try to go back and listen again later. I read the transcript of his interview with MP and YB, so it may have been what I read there.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I would have to watch his testimony again but I thought he said he would have seen him because, one, he can see over the car, two, when he had to move back in front of the car his lights would have been even more angled to that area. He said the edge was in front of the front door, a few feet one way or the other....I can't remember lol

I don't think the car was right where JOK was found?

I will try to go back and listen again later. I read the transcript of his interview with MP and YB, so it may have been what I read there.

"It was roughly in the area of the flagpole" were his exact words at trial.

 

[missy1974]

Please tell me I'm not the only person whom this case has taken up so much of their thought that they do the following thing:

So, I live in a part of London where none of the homes have driveway or garage so everyone has to park their car on the street. I must have just walked past about 50 cars on my walk to and from the shop just now and as I was walking by I must have looked at the taillight of every single one of them, comparing the designs, the lens/diffuser, height or whether it had a tailgate segment and corner segment like the Lexus!

I have been looking at tail lights too lol

This post is a good reminder that not everyone has personal experience with some of the aspects of this case. The temperature, the snow plow, the light snow, the blizzard, driving in that weather, and in your case even driveways/garages.

I hope all the jurors understand all if they are from the area.

Personally, without knowing the temperature leading up to this blizzard, I am not convinced the ground was frozen, it doesn't freeze like that in one day. The fact that when the snow first started falling, it made the roads wet, tells me it was not frozen. JMO

 

[louvillian08]

Interesting!
So you are saying CW has no evidence of when OR where the Lexus reverse event happened?

I would like to see the evidence brought to a judge for KR arrest, and what was brought to the DA who warrant this case going to trial.

It would include these things, I suppose- and then more in digital evidence.
Yeah I see why this seems enough to investigate, but taillight is the solid reason to focus on KR.

- testimony/ video that KR and JOK had been drinking
- testimony that KR was driving and JOK riding with KR to Fairview
- witness location and timing of KR Lexus in front of the house
- KR arrives back at JOKs alone
- KRs texts/ voicemails angry at JOK
- KR leaves JOKs the next morning alone, calls she can’t find JOK
- JOK body found in front of Fairview
- taillight pieces in snow near body found
- KR saying she may have hit him
- KR Lexus broken taillight
- testimony that JOK did not come into the 34 Fairview house

IMO

I will try and be as fair to each side when I describe what the data entails

The key cycle data showing the abrupt reverse events (1162-2) shows the odometer reading and the time into the key cycle that the event occurred. Since another event occurred in the same key cycle (1162-1, the 3 point turn) it also shows the time between the 3 point turn and the abrupt reversal.

The CW used the GPS data from JO's phone and the data from the Waze app to try and line up where he was at the time of the first trigger event. They were able to deduce that JO (and the Lexus) were making a 3point turn on a specific road, ~ 11 minutes after the cycle started.

The issue with 1162-2 is that the Waze app has been turned off since 12:24am, JO's phone location is independent of the Lexus (and this has to be true for the CW as well as the defense) and all the witness testimony about the car's location, JO's location, etc. is a whole mess.

At best, the data shows that 1162-2 occurred on the same mileage as 1162-1, so it has to be within a mile range of the 3 point turn. It also happened ~ 8 minutes after the 3 point turn. So we can say that KR wasn't in Boston when 1162-2 happened (just an example) but we cannot say she was in front of 34 Fairview.

IMO, the data point that she connects to wifi at 12:36am makes it more likely 1162-2 was not in front of 34 Fairview. Rather that she missed the turn onto Beaumont and went down Beatty street instead. This scenario fits perfectly with the information that we do have: it's .7 miles away from the 3 point turn, its about 2 minutes from 34 Fairview which would align with her return to 1 Meadows Ave at 12:36am AND align with HB's statement that JO exited the car at 12:30am - though that was never brought up in testimony. We also know that KR missed a turn just 8 minutes prior so it’s reasonable she missed one on the way home too. Especially with how confusing that intersection/turn looks

12:30am - JO exits/KR leaves
12:32am - KR misses turn and reverses
12:36am - KR in vicinity of 1 Meadows Ave to connect to wifi

 

[Spider92]

I wondered where MA falls compared to other states.

MASS State comparison
Top 3 Highest educated population
Top 1 Highest public education K-12 based on standardized tests
Top 5 Safest- low violent crime and property crime
Murder rate per capita- 2.5 per 100,000
Top 10 Highest cannabis use

I see why MA is ‘high’ on the list for illegal drug use, and low in crime rate.

IMO

People in MA are wicked smaaat, but they need a little something to deal with the academic pressure.

 

[jepop]

This is not quite accurate.

1. Yes, the EDR data is not contested by the defense or the CW. The EDR data responsible for logging collisions, impacts, deployment events, etc. did not log ANY events. 1162-2 is a reference to VCH data, not EDR.

2. The vast majority of this data was in trial 1. The only controversy about the key cycle came from the CW's expert witness testifying, under oath, about his testing on key cycle 1164

b) "ocurred within some number of feet" - 4,752 feet, or .9 miles to be exact. The drive from 34 Fairview to 1 Meadows is between 2.3 and 2.7 miles, depending on routes. KR could have been nearly half the way home when reversing. Not merely a difference of a few feet. The CW also has no foundation or data to argue where the specific reversing event occurred. It's not a matter of the defense "disputing" when in fact the CW has provided zero evidence or proof for any location.

"I think you see this in their case. ARCCA would not recreate a reversing accident at 24mph if the defence case was this speed never occurred."

I think you're missing the entire point of our legal system if this is your takeaway. The purpose of the defense's case and witnesses are to refute what the prosecution is alleging. When the CW is arguing such a ridiculous non-theory of what happened, the simplest and cleanest route to take is pointing out all the ways it couldn't possibly happen the way the CW claims. 24pmh is what the CW claimed, naturally that is what ARCCA needs to focus on.

A minor point but based on HB's cross of Wolfe, it seems the CW isn't claiming the speed was 24mph anymore, changing their theory yet again during the trial.

Thanks for this explanation. I've been trying to articulate why the defense doesn't need to dispute the CW's theory of 1162 and your post is really clarifying.

The defense is refuting the CW's theory with it's own experts (ARCCA, Dr Russell). Their testimony so far casts serious and imo fatal doubt on the CW's contention that there was a collision, for all the reasons discussed in numerous posts.

The defense don't have to, and they did not, get into the weeds over Burgess' vague theory which has no foundation and does not include a documented collision. I don't even think Burgess was able to rule out spinning tires. Jmo. In any event, moo Dr Di Sorga's critique of Burgess's work was sufficient.

The bottom line is Burgess did not demonstrate with any true certainty a precise location for the 1162 -2 event, it could have occurred away from no. 34 on the trip back to Meadows.
Jmo

 

[HarmonyE.]

Personally, without knowing the temperature leading up to this blizzard, I am not convinced the ground was frozen, it doesn't freeze like that in one day. The fact that when the snow first started falling, it made the roads wet, tells me it was not frozen. JMO

Our winters aren't what they used to be. When I was a kid, I remember the ground being frozen solid in Janaury. Alaskan tundra style.

It doesn't happen like that anymore. Even with stretches of cold days, we'll then get days in the 40's (F) so the ground never seems to truly freeze. Last trial I checked the weather history, it had been in the high 20's in the days leading up to the blizzard. Not sub zero weather by any stretch.

 

[DustysMom]

After BH and KR meet at his home in Roxbury (whatever happened there), she ghosts him for a few days. During which time, BH spends a long car ride with BA - he’s mixed up, hurt, angry or all three. Of course he mentions her texts to him, her kiss to him under JOs nose and what happened when she came to his place a few days prior. This tidbit is shared by BA with McAlberts who are drooling at the thought of telling JO. The flame is further fueled by KRs blatant ignoring BH at the Waterfall, even while BA and him play grab A$$ right in front of her to get her attention.
KR might have suspected the cat was out of the bag and didn’t want to go to 34F and deal with BH.
MAYBE KR tells JO, I really need to get home and use the bathroom. JO says Ok, you go and I’ll just stay for one if someone will drive me home. He grabs her drink from the console and walks in.
The guys are in the basement- he walks down and is confronted.
BH - ‘Hey, Where’s Karen?’
JO - smart remark
BAM

 

[Forest_Wood]

Yes, you’re spot on regarding BH’s response to KR’s initial texts - he was like “you’re sure you’ve got the right guy? Are you serious or is this some sort of prank?”
And then at the very end - she texts him “John’s dead” and we get complete silence from BH. Probably because he was too busy calling his lawyer….bizarre. IMO, he knew that anything he said at that point could get him into trouble.

I wonder why she sent that final text to him though! She had ghosted him for a week after all. I also wonder why LE didn’t think they had conspired together to get rid of John, given their dalliance for 2-3 weeks prior. Wouldn’t that be the natural thought process of LE from when they discovered their texts?

 

[DustysMom]

Please tell me I'm not the only person whom this case has taken up so much of their thought that they do the following thing:

So, I live in a part of London where none of the homes have driveway or garage so everyone has to park their car on the street. I must have just walked past about 50 cars on my walk to and from the shop just now and as I was walking by I must have looked at the taillight of every single one of them, comparing the designs, the lens/diffuser, height or whether it had a tailgate segment and corner segment like the Lexus!

Absolutely! Lately, my pondering has been focused on the behavior of BH. This is after watching the daily trial and related podcasts and YouTubers commentary.

 

[AngTxGal]

Please tell me I'm not the only person whom this case has taken up so much of their thought that they do the following thing:

So, I live in a part of London where none of the homes have driveway or garage so everyone has to park their car on the street. I must have just walked past about 50 cars on my walk to and from the shop just now and as I was walking by I must have looked at the taillight of every single one of them, comparing the designs, the lens/diffuser, height or whether it had a tailgate segment and corner segment like the Lexus!

Cases with confusing death, reconstructions, dog bites, BAC, autopsy, weather events, and a trail on TV are exactly the kind that get my attention.

So, yes for about two weeks it has occupied much thought w/ knee surgery and pain meds…

It is that darn White Ceiling Fan spinning against a White Ceiling shown on the CourtTV Live feed during breaks and SideBars that invades my sleep!!

IMO

 

[DustysMom]

I wonder why she sent that final text to him though! She had ghosted him for a week after all. I also wonder why LE didn’t think they had conspired together to get rid of John, given their dalliance for 2-3 weeks prior. Wouldn’t that be the natural thought process of LE from when they discovered their texts?

I think the final text was her reaching out - hoping for some connection and comfort. At this point, KR is in shock and doesn’t have any idea what happened. She certainly doesn’t think that his friends, acquaintances, fellow cops would beat him up and leave him for dead in their front lawn!

 

[ShadyLady]

Seems to be some confusion over Caitlin Albert and her boyfriend, Tristan Morris. TM states when he received the texts/calls (his memory is very bad) from "high maintenance" Caitlin, he drove HER JEEP CHEROKEE to pick her up in Canton and take her back to Easton. Not a Ford Edge. He may have owned or does now own a Ford Edge, but it was NOT what he drove that night to pick her up.

ETA; He also states they live together and have been together about 8 yrs.

Time stamp 46:10

Tristan Morris testimony - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Oh, wow this is significant.

So Edge drivers: BA and who else?

 

[AngTxGal]

Our winters aren't what they used to be. When I was a kid, I remember the ground being frozen solid in Janaury. Alaskan tundra style.

It doesn't happen like that anymore. Even with stretches of cold days, we'll then get days in the 40's (F) so the ground never seems to truly freeze. Last trial I checked the weather history, it had been in the high 20's in the days leading up to the blizzard. Not sub zero weather by any stretch.

I was also curious about the ground temp, if it was wet and frozen or dry and warm. What you describe is more like our winter here, but January-February we can have multiple days of sub freezing temps.

When you say sub zero- I’m guessing you mean below 32F?? Freezing, 0C

Weather in Jan ‘22 Canton MA

Jan 27 high 27F, low 9F
Jan 28 high 36F, low 27F
Jan 29 high 18F, low 12F

IMO