MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #33 Retrial

[Warwick7]

Please tell me I'm not the only person whom this case has taken up so much of their thought that they do the following thing:

So, I live in a part of London where none of the homes have driveway or garage so everyone has to park their car on the street. I must have just walked past about 50 cars on my walk to and from the shop just now and as I was walking by I must have looked at the taillight of every single one of them, comparing the designs, the lens/diffuser, height or whether it had a tailgate segment and corner segment like the Lexus!

I was walking through the grocery store and someone walked past me with a huge pack of red solocups in her cart. I looked at them, I looked at her and rolled my eyes. Lol!! Glad she didn't see me.

 

[nightowl1975]

I was walking through the grocery store and someone walked past me with a huge pack of red solocups in her cart. I looked at them, I looked at her and rolled my eyes. Lol!! Glad she didn't see me.

So rude! That lady might be a detective for the local police department, just out restocking supplies.

 

[shotgun09]

I'm really interested to see what the verdict is on this one. I think (fear) it will be a hung jury again. We are at an advantage in that we know so much from trial 1 and from additional information on the internet that the jury just doesn't know. We also have the benefit of being able to watch and rewatch trial footage to pick apart details. I know I would be fuming if I was on the jury and then read after the fact about all the stuff about Higgins' phone, the FBI, the partygoers, the relationships between all the players, etc. I would feel like I made a decision without being given all the information. I hope the jury is meticulously discerning when they are discussing and analyzing the evidence they actually have been given. There is so much reasonable doubt IMO, that I can't understand anything but a NG verdict, but based on some views just here alone, some people seem to be so locked in to their belief that she hit him, they don't even want to hear any evidence to the contrary and, in fact, seem to blatantly ignore it. Chances are, there is at least one person on the jury who is as equally entrenched in their belief that she hit him no matter what evidence is shown to the contrary (or even willing to acknowledge that there is reasonable doubt). IMO

Bingo !
And what annoys the crap out of me, is you can see it...we can see it...but does the CW see it? IMO, YES they do! They also know that their case is flimsy....see their star witnesses...
The judge also knows the CW's case is flimsy.....see " I'll allow it"

They just don't care ! They will break the CW's Bank, the Court's bank, and the taxpayers Bank, but by hook or by crook, they will continue this witch hunt. IF this case is hung, there will be another.
" That's not how we do things in MA ( Mr Jackson ). "

MOO

 

[justbeachy]

Wholeheartedly agree and add in, as someone else described earlier, where the burden of proof appears to have been transferred to the defence.
Because of what .... "KR looks like type because her eyes are too close together" or something like that?
Trial 3 incoming with a new set of "imaginative preposterosities" which may vary in-trial.

Completely agree! It seems that the concept of the defense not needing to prove anything has been completely lost. This is not how our justice system is supposed to work! Innocent until proven guilty! The accusers have to PROVE you did what they are accusing you of doing. Not "maybe" you did it, not "probably" you did it. It seems to have shifted to "guilty until you prove you're innocent and also you have to look the way I want you to look and show the emotions/facial expressions that I want you to show." As someone who has RBF (resting B face), I can empathize with people thinking I'm a certain way when I'm not. I had a woman tell me one time after we hung out at a mutual friend's party, "I always thought you were a B from seeing you at the gym, but you're actually really nice!" I can't help it...it's just my face! LOL

IMO

 

[DustysMom]

The BH + KR part of all the drama I just don’t understand!

Why was KR carrying on this text flirt with BH?
JOK seems to have been a good guy.
She was in a relationship where children were involved, and becoming part of a family with JOK, providing stability for all four of them.
KR is 44 yrs old- it is my understanding she was financially doing well, she was pretty much past child bearing years, and had had health issues herself

What was she doing fooling around with BH?
I find that fact so completely immature- for a 44 yr old professional woman in a relationship with a man who has children- who is living off and on with them in their home.

Just my opinion- and doesn’t mean anything regarding her Guilt or Not Guilty- but gives more fuel to cause the O’Keefe family to see her in a different light.
She earned part of it

This fact also gives some people ammo to not like her.

But of course I know nothing about JOK’s history with women.
Many of us will be raised to sainthood after death when few of us deserve it.

IMO

JMO When I was 41, (MBA, good job, my own home, no kids) I met and married my now husband who has 2 children. I can attest to the difficulty of being a step parent. It can be an emotionally draining, thankless role. And, my situation was a cake walk compared to KR’s. At least my husband didn’t give me any reason to think he was unfaithful.
IMO I imagine that she tried her best for 2 years and was feeling unappreciated by everyone. And, likely lonely. She might have chose to go after BH because she thought he was a little smarter and more sophisticated than his testosterone fueled buddies.

 

[DustysMom]

Yes for sure she was reaching out plus she had no idea BA had called him that morning first thing and that BH was at their home at 07:00 and already knew about John.

I’d still like to know if LE ever suspected BH and her were working together though. They pointed the finger at her immediately but what about him.

With MP at the helm, no investigation was conducted nor was any critical thinking conveyed.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

JMO When I was 41, (MBA, good job, my own home, no kids) I met and married my now husband who has 2 children. I can attest to the difficulty of being a step parent. It can be an emotionally draining, thankless role. And, my situation was a cake walk compared to KR’s. At least my husband didn’t give me any reason to think he was unfaithful.
IMO I imagine that she tried her best for 2 years and was feeling unappreciated by everyone. And, likely lonely. She might have chose to go after BH because she thought he was a little smarter and more sophisticated than his testosterone fueled buddies.

Not only that, in her texts to Higgins that were read out loud she said she wished John’s family would do more regarding the kids. What he did was altruistic but how easy was it for a guy his age who never had kids to just dive in and be a parent? He was a full time cop as well. When they all went to Aruba she complained because he was “a puddle” and she caught him in a suspicious situation with another woman while she put the kids to bed. She never signed up for it either but she did what she could.

The kids were lucky to have her in their lives but have been turned against her because of Jen and her group.

 

[AngTxGal]

Not only that, in her texts to Higgins that were read out loud she said she wished John’s family would do more regarding the kids. What he did was altruistic but how easy was it for a guy his age who never had kids to just dive in and be a parent? He was a full time cop as well. When they all went to Aruba she complained because he was “a puddle” and she caught him in a suspicious situation with another woman while she put the kids to bed. She never signed up for it either but she did what she could.

The kids were lucky to have her in their lives but have been turned against her because of Jen and her group.

I can see that, and she was maintaining a home in a different city plus a full time professional job.

Figuring out how to do everything you are supposed to do as a professional and educated woman at work and also be a fully present parent and partner is tough enough- with your own children, and in a committed long term established relationship!

Pressures to work and pressures to care for children are real- finding a balance to care for self is always a struggle. Having a partner that encourages that self care is critical.
Did he help her maintain a balance?
Did they take quality time together without kids?
Where was she in her job, and what were her dreams for the future professionally?
What were JOK’s aspirations at his job?

IMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

I'm watching the BH testimony again. Just finished the CW portion and about to watch the cross with AJ. Brian Higgins was such a repulsive man, physically, emotionally and intellectually lacking as far as I can see. Besides, she's all of 90 lbs and he looks way over 300 lbs and not muscle. It really bothers me the way he is trying to portray himself as an innocent victim in the way he says she pursued him. I don't see it that way at all. He was a willing participant, lurking around her right under John's nose.
After reading all the texts, Lally asked him about the visit they had. He said it was more of the same like the texts, trying to sus out what was happening. " I was very uncomfortable, just an uncomfortable situation and just a weird vibe..." Neither finished a drink, and she went home. Later, he says, "Are you asking if she ever kissed me again?. And yet, he kept sending flirty texts and trying to engage her, even when he was with John in the bar.

Another thing I noticed, when did Karen begin going to the side bars with the attorneys? She doesn't go during some of these Trial 1 videos.

MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

AJ: Have you ever been at a party and seen Eddy Hernandez and Brian Albert fight? Christmas 5 years before 2022.
Objection.
AJ: You do know that Brian Albert has a reputation for being a fighter.
Objection.
AJ: You were asked in a formal interview about Brian Albert and his reputation, were you not?
BH: Yes.
AJ: You indicated in that formal interview that even Chief Berkowitz was a little afraid of Brian Albert.
Objection. Stricken. Sidebar.

 

[waldojabba]

With MP at the helm, no investigation was conducted nor was any critical thinking conveyed.

BH was also Chief Berky's best friend. He has an office at Canton PD even though he was Federal ATF.
He was one of their own. Why would they go after him ? Muddy the waters?
Karen was not one of their own and neither was John apparently.
Pin it on the girl
JMO

 

[missy1974]

I have been able to somewhat get away from this case for a few days. I did keep up with posts though

Having a bit of time to reflect about everything I have watched this trial and where we are at now....

I think the defense has decided that less is more, and I don't know how that will play out in the end.

Selfishly, I wanted to see all of the McAlberts clan on the stand to see what they would say (or not say). I didn't watch them at all in the first trial so I am unsure if I would find it a distraction or not in the 2nd trial? I didn't need to see them the 1st trial to see reasonable doubt .. BUT.. I knew enough then and now to not be able to separate all that information out.

Many said that after the CW rested, that they didn't prove their case and the defense didn't need to put on a case at all. I think it is possible that they (the defense) believe that as well, but certain things like the dog bites, ARCCA, attacking some of the data points, needed to be addressed.

I had really hoped they would address the techstream data, but looking at what has been presented so far... do they need to? I think it was too much in the first trial and probably resulted in a lot of confusion, which then results in disregarding the info anyway IMO. The simple fact that the internet is still divided on it, shows me that the CW did not make a good case for it.

Proctor.... again, selfishly, I would love to see him on the witness stand again, I get why they are not calling him, but he is the glue that ties so many aspects of this case together to see the full picture IMO IF the judge does not give a 'missing witness instruction', I am not sure how the jurors will handle that in deliberations?

It may come down to closing arguments IMO. All the information has been presented in the trial, but being able to put it in a coherent 1 hour summation will be key.

 

[Angelwatch]

This is not quite accurate.

1. Yes, the EDR data is not contested by the defense or the CW. The EDR data responsible for logging collisions, impacts, deployment events, etc. did not log ANY events. 1162-2 is a reference to VCH data, not EDR.

2. The vast majority of this data was in trial 1. The only controversy about the key cycle came from the CW's expert witness testifying, under oath, about his testing on key cycle 1164

b) "ocurred within some number of feet" - 4,752 feet, or .9 miles to be exact. The drive from 34 Fairview to 1 Meadows is between 2.3 and 2.7 miles, depending on routes. KR could have been nearly half the way home when reversing. Not merely a difference of a few feet. The CW also has no foundation or data to argue where the specific reversing event occurred. It's not a matter of the defense "disputing" when in fact the CW has provided zero evidence or proof for any location.

"I think you see this in their case. ARCCA would not recreate a reversing accident at 24mph if the defence case was this speed never occurred."

I think you're missing the entire point of our legal system if this is your takeaway. The purpose of the defense's case and witnesses are to refute what the prosecution is alleging. When the CW is arguing such a ridiculous non-theory of what happened, the simplest and cleanest route to take is pointing out all the ways it couldn't possibly happen the way the CW claims. 24pmh is what the CW claimed, naturally that is what ARCCA needs to focus on.

A minor point but based on HB's cross of Wolfe, it seems the CW isn't claiming the speed was 24mph anymore, changing their theory yet again during the trial.

Good post.

Brennan’s opening seemed to imply a slower speed than 24mph. He mentioned spinning tires during the reverse, IIRC. I think he knew from reconstruction that there’s no possible way the arm could get hit without bruising or broken bones at 24mph. The problem is that once you slow it down, the taillight won’t sustain the damage. It’s a catch-22.

 

[missy1974]

One thing I did read about in the thread over the weekend that I want to comment on is...

Dr. Wolfe's wife.

In his testimony on Friday, Brennan showed him what is believed to be a FB post from his wife (he said he did not know what it was). There is no proof of this, and if there was, Brennan would have pushed harder IMO

It isn't just the CW witnesses that have been harassed, Wolfe testified in his voir dire that he and his family have been harassed, ARCCA was harassed, and he found pictures of his kids all over the internet. No matter what side of the fence anyone is on, this is never okay.

All JMO

 

[missy1974]

Good post.

Brennan’s opening seemed to imply a slower speed than 24mph. He mentioned spinning tires during the reverse, IIRC. I think he knew from reconstruction that there’s no possible way the arm could get hit without bruising or broken bones at 24mph. The problem is that once you slow it down, the taillight won’t sustain the damage. It’s a catch-22.

I think Welcher is fully aware that if he did "real" tests, he would end up with the same results as ARCCA. That is why they were not done.

It will be interesting to see how he will try to counter it in rebutal if he is allowed to.

Welcher's testimony where he says why he did not do any testing with crash test dummies... he goes on to explain how so many of the variables they do NOT know....

if I were to do a test and it was off a tiny tiny bit and we got some different results I would be in here having to defend it well your own testing didn't show it point is is we don't have enough information to be able to conduct that testing exactly

 

[HarmonyE.]

I was also curious about the ground temp, if it was wet and frozen or dry and warm. What you describe is more like our winter here, but January-February we can have multiple days of sub freezing temps.

When you say sub zero- I’m guessing you mean below 32F?? Freezing, 0C

Weather in Jan ‘22 Canton MA

Jan 27 high 27F, low 9F
Jan 28 high 36F, low 27F
Jan 29 high 18F, low 12F

IMO

We ignore celsius here completely. Subzero means below 0 F. Which I think is around -18 in celsius.

Highs hitting the high 20s and 30s and higher regularly will prevent the ground from fully freezing solid. Constanting warming and cooling. Which is why we sometimes lose small children inside of potholes in the spring.

 

[Angelwatch]

One thing I did read about in the thread over the weekend that I want to comment on is...

Dr. Wolfe's wife.

In his testimony on Friday, Brennan showed him what is believed to be a FB post from his wife (he said he did not know what it was). There is no proof of this, and if there was, Brennan would have pushed harder IMO

It isn't just the CW witnesses that have been harassed, Wolfe testified in his voir dire that he and his family have been harassed, ARCCA was harassed, and he found pictures of his kids all over the internet. No matter what side of the fence anyone is on, this is never okay.

All JMO

Even if it was true that his wife was pro-Karen, who cares? Are we in the 1850s where wives can’t think independently? Give me a break.

The DOJ gave both sides over 3000 pages of information they independently collected. It was unbiased, yet the CW ignored it. Why ignore evidence? They aren’t trying to find the truth, IMO.

 

[bobbymkii]

If a woman reverses her car into her boyfriend and kills him, but no-one is around to hear it. Does that mean that it never made a sound?

If mental gymnastics was an olympic sport, Hank and the Aperture boys would bring home gold for the US of A. Has there ever been a case in criminal history where they needed to download megabytes, or megabits of data (they didn't know the difference and I don't either) from a computer in order to prove a car hit someone outside a house where he was expected to arrive and then not notice him dead outside said house for 6 hours?

Is Karen Read guilty?

The science says 'no'
the computer says 'yes'

JMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Has there ever been a case in criminal history where they needed to download megabytes, or megabits of data (they didn't know the difference and I don't either)

People who work in IT most certainly would know this. They are basic units of storage in digital technology. The fact Burgess made that critical error is mind-boggling to me. There's 8 bits in one byte. It's kind of like mixing up an inch with a foot in measurement not realizing there's 12 inches in one foot for example. Imagine how your end result would be if we made an error like that.
It's not the only error he made either. Amateur.

 

[AngTxGal]

One thing I did read about in the thread over the weekend that I want to comment on is...

Dr. Wolfe's wife.

In his testimony on Friday, Brennan showed him what is believed to be a FB post from his wife (he said he did not know what it was). There is no proof of this, and if there was, Brennan would have pushed harder IMO

It isn't just the CW witnesses that have been harassed, Wolfe testified in his voir dire that he and his family have been harassed, ARCCA was harassed, and he found pictures of his kids all over the internet. No matter what side of the fence anyone is on, this is never okay.

All JMO

People are nuts, the way the public attacks families in cases it’s disgusting and scary. Social media has created a way for unhinged people to find each other and coordinate their nuttery- the rest of us who are sane are not safe.
Trust me I know- I’m in Texas amidst the current political nuttery
I’m looking for an island to inhabit!

IMO