MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #33 Retrial

[mrjitty]

And she knows he never made it inside the house, because at 12.59 am she says 'nobody knows where the fk you are', without asking anyone in the house. MOO

yes. i don’t see how any of this can be reconciled with her videos.

IMO it’s much more likely she reversed at high speed and suspected or knew she hit him as per her various utterances from the 5am and 6am hour. IMO she was probably reversing to go out the way she came.

in any event the data is the data unless you want to take it up with Toyota.

 

[geevee]

yes. i don’t see how any of this can be reconciled with her videos.

IMO it’s much more likely she reversed at high speed and suspected or knew she hit him as per her various utterances from the 5am and 6am hour. IMO she was probably reversing to go out the way she came.

in any event the data is the data unless you want to take it up with Toyota.

How do you square her reversing at 12:31 a.m. with BA testifying (in T 1) that BH didn't leave until around 1:30 a.m. and BH testifying he parked his Jeep near the mailbox?

At 47:00:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[jepop]

Somehow, my post didn't include the original message I was responding to. I was speaking of TM coming to pick up Caitlyn. Someone mentioned he had a Ford Edge also, and Lucky saw that Ford Edge parked on the street near the flagpole. So I wondered if it was TM's Edge; why wouldn't he just pull into the driveway to pick her up?

TM was driving a jeep Cherokee when he picked up Caitlyn. This was confirmed earlier in the thread with sources from testimony in trial X 1.

 

[jepop]

At the intersection RN's car group let KR's car go first. When they pull up to 34F they were literally seconds behind KR. Then parked right behind KR. They even testified there were two in Karen's car.

They each testified there was no jeep.

When they arrived they saw no body on the lawn. When the pulled around her to leave, they could one woman with the dome light on.

Yes, it's odd about the jeep. I know this has been discussed a lot but I believe Higgins' jeep was there, but not where JMc claims. Higgins turned up later at the CPD in his jeep. Higgins testified in trial X 1 to leaving 34 F at around 1am or something close to that. There was no CPD footage in trial X 1 so if Higgins was being truthful then he didn't drive directly to the CPD (footage has him arriving at 1.30am).

Jmo Higgins was around at 34 F between 12.30 and 1am. Occasionally I wonder what J and M McCabe's motive was for saying he was parked near the mail box, unless they meant on the mail box side of the driveway? But I'm sure JMc insisted he was parked adjacent to the mail box IIRC, and as noted that conflicts with RN who I tend to believe.

Perhaps Higgins parked in the neighbour's driveway (no. 33 across the road opposite the northern end of lawn, flag pole and hydrant end, is the home of the police officer who provided the solo cups IIUC). Perhaps JMc and Higgins himself wanted to divert any defense investigator potentially questioning the police officer neighbour re the jeep.? Just a random idea. That happens to be the neighbour who had no footage for the evening. Moo

 

[Forest_Wood]

Well said, and the problem is in theory the story sounds plausible.

She was drunk, he was drunk, she was angry, she backed up the car to turn around and didn’t see him.
He was struck, tore up his arm, and fell and hit his head.
She has a broken taillight and pieces of her taillight are on the ground near his body.
All of that sounds plausible- slam dunk

But- It wasn’t possible, he does not have the injuries of an arm that broke that taillight.
Too much reasonable doubt- Not Guilty

And no one is explaining what it would take for taillight shards to cut an arm like that…
They could not be disconnected from the car- and would have to be disconnected if they are on the ground!
Imagine all of these shards moving independently of each other in the air- and they are moving at 25 mph- and they align themselves like dog teeth and cut through clothing and skin to create patterns of parallel lines in a human arm- but yet they aren’t connected to the car anymore or each other!!
Let’s throw those taillight shards at someone’s arm at 25 mph and see if it works- it doesn’t

But the family and city needs someone to blame and her guilt looks plausible. They are all done with the public attention, just let her go down and get this over with!!

The DA isn’t asking for the hard questions to be answered!!
How did JOK actually become hurt?
How did those taillight pieces from KR’s car become broken and near where JOK was found???

IMO

You said it right - all of that sounds plausible - slam dunk.
That's what Proctor and all of those involved LE workers thought would happen!
The higher ups wanted a quick solution (according to MPs texts) and Proctor and the gang did their thing to make that happen and help it all along. Get it over with quickly so we can all go take it easy at the bars with our cruisers and get sh*t-faced again to do it all again tomorrow.
See what terrific police work we do! Let's act like school kids in bars while we're at it to show what hilarious and tough men we are in our jobs. (BA and BH showing their moves).
None of them thought this case would blow up in their faces because they've done things like this so many times before, it was like clock work to them all. Who wants to spend more time investigating friends and neighbors than is necessary to get a conviction. Too much work!
She "confessed" she hit him, her taillight pieces were found there, therefore she is guilty.
How often have they done things like this before in their "investigations" and the person went to jail because of it. When this trial is over, the people in Canton and Boston and MA as a whole are now paying attention. Thanks to Karen Read and all her money and awareness when she decided, hey, something is not right here, did that really happen, let's look closer ...
MOO

 

[lohrtabitha]

They had had a fight about BH, and he was yelling at her (whichno one heard) maybe daring her to hit him??

The only problem with this is that JM would have seen him. She kept looking out the front door according to her testimony.JM was desperate to get John inside that house. Moo

 

[Forest_Wood]

Have you tried reversing at that speed, when drunk in snow, not easy to make slight adjustments/

Exactly! Anyone who has tried to reverse a vehicle knows that the steering wheel has a mind of its own. It goes right when we are aiming for left, and vice versa, even when backing in to our parking spaces. Add speed and distance onto that and it's not possible to go in a straight line with a "slight" left pull. Impossible!

 

[wackyw]

I hadn't notice how curved the road was, has anyone checked if Karen Read has trick car driving training, some feat to go that fast on a curved road. No evidence she went up onto the nature strip or front yard, yet alone the berm which would have been difficult to cross accurately.

The road wasn't curved when she reversed. She's a professor and they know how to bend space and time, google Einstein and his mates. No need to know how .... she just did.

 

[lohrtabitha]

Just 3 witnesses left. Wolfe continues, then his colleague, and the medical examiner.

Live video, updates: Final witnesses expected in Karen Read’s retrial before defense rests case

Monday marks Day 29 of witness testimony.

www.boston25news.com

 

[lohrtabitha]

And she knows he never made it inside the house, because at 12.59 am she says 'nobody knows where the fk you are', without asking anyone in the house. MOO

Meaning herself and his niece and nephew. There are 3 in John’s house so this comment makes sense. Imo

 

[nodamselindistress]

The medical examiner will hopefully testify to what JO's body temp should have been had he been lying out there from 12:32 until found. That should do it!

 

[Forest_Wood]

How do you square her reversing at 12:31 a.m. with BA testifying (in T 1) that BH didn't leave until around 1:30 a.m. and BH testifying he parked his Jeep near the mailbox?

At 47:00:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

BA testified Higgins didn't leave until 01:30 (impossible since he was already at Canton Police by then). BH testified he left between 12:30-01:00, within an hour of arriving at 12:15sh. BA, BH and JMc all testified his jeep was parked at the mailbox on the road. KR and RN arrived around 12:23. There was no jeep there when those two vehicles arrived according to RN and his 2 friends.

So, let's think about this. Higgins was a surveillance agent. What do surveillance agent's do? They lurk around where people cannot see them, watching, observing, waiting, in the darkness.

After RN pulled away, maybe JOK slammed his drink into Karen's taillight in anger when she wouldn't come inside with him. Remember she called him a pervert. Had he said something about going to sleep with so-and-so when he hopped out. JOK stumbles backwards onto the lawn once he loses his balance after slamming his glass into the car. Karen takes off.

BH is watching all of this from his surveillance perch. BH takes care of the rest. He pulls his jeep up to where Karen's vehicle was parked. And this is why JMc thought she was still looking at KR's SUV at 12:45 near the flagpole when Karen was already gone. BH used a weapon to poke on John's arm, he either staggered back and hit his head then or he was already down, resulting in death. Off BH drives to the Canton police department arriving at 01:30sh.

Far fetched or reasonable doubt?

MOO

 

[lohrtabitha]

yes. i don’t see how any of this can be reconciled with her videos.

IMO it’s much more likely she reversed at high speed and suspected or knew she hit him as per her various utterances from the 5am and 6am hour. IMO she was probably reversing to go out the way she came.

in any event the data is the data unless you want to take it up with Toyota.

It doesn't take a blind man to see that Karen was fully in love with John. Hearing and seeing her incessant texts to him earlier that day , showed that when they did meet up that night. Their love was captured in the videos shown at both bars. Saying she knew or suspected she hit him is way off base here. KK testified that KR appeared fine at the Waterfall. She is a pharmacist who also was not drinking that night , so she would know. Mr. Nagel testified that KR was driving carefully, and that no one in his truck saw JOK in or out of the vehicle. He also said KR had her hands on the steering wheel at 10 and 2. She wasn't talking to anyone, she was waiting. Their is no doubt in my opinion that JOK went into that house where he met an accidental death stemming from a fight , dog attack and then was covered up. It explains all the unusual behavior and lying by the Alberts, Mccabes, BH,MP, Yuri, and the many other witnesses for the CW. Moo

 

[missy1974]

They are dealing with some motions...

Right now dealing with some opinions of Dr. Laposata and what she can and can't say. Will need a voir dire, to see if she can talk about dog bites.

CW also wants to limit Dr. Rentschlar... a motion filed to limit his opinions. Will deal with that later today.

****This is what I understand from what I have heard... may not be correct. Hate that we don't have immediate access to these motions.

 

[bobbymkii]

The medical examiner will hopefully testify to what JO's body temp should have been had he been lying out there from 12:32 until found. That should do it!

There are many parts of the exculpatory evidence that I just cannot get my head around, but this is number one by a mile. As soon is they realised that his body was 80F in the hospital and he had to have been lying there for at least 5 hours in freezing temperatures for KR to have hit him, that should have been so exculpatory that it ended any question of KR being the person responsible.

There is simply no way his body temperature was that high. He would have looked more like he'd been found halfway up Mount Everest than by the side of the road in Canton, MA. It's also a part of their case that it was so cold that night/early following morning that the ground on that lawn was frozen solid. He was covered in snow and he wasn't even wearing a coat! They wouldn't have even attempted resuscitation or body warming, he would have just been declared dead there and then.

Even if the head injury wasn't immediately fatal and his heart was continuing to pump blood around his body for at least some period of time there's no way it would have kept that much temperature in his body. Before long his system would start prioritising blood flow to vital organs at the expense of lower extremities, causing frostbite. And the various treatments and warmer environment of the ambulance wouldn't have come close either.

There's just no way he was out there all that time.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

And.... Good Morning trial watchers!

 

[missy1974]

There are many parts of the exculpatory evidence that I just cannot get my head around, but this is number one by a mile. As soon is they realised that his body was 80F in the hospital and he had to have been lying there for at least 5 hours in freezing temperatures for KR to have hit him, that should have been so exculpatory that it ended any question of KR being the person responsible.

There is simply no way his body temperature was that high. He would have looked more like he'd been found halfway up Mount Everest than by the side of the road in Canton, MA. It's also a part of their case that it was so cold that night/early following morning that the ground on that lawn was frozen solid. He was covered in snow and he wasn't even wearing a coat! They wouldn't have even attempted resuscitation or body warming, he would have just been declared dead there and then.

Even if the head injury wasn't immediately fatal and his heart was continuing to pump blood around his body for at least some period of time there's no way it would have kept that much temperature in his body. Before long his system would start prioritising blood flow to vital organs at the expense of lower extremities, causing frostbite. And the various treatments and warmer environment of the ambulance wouldn't have come close either.

There's just no way he was out there all that time.

MOO

I just heard in the arguing of the motions... Dr. Laposata plans on saying that she did not think he had hypothermia. So they may address the body temp.

 

[BUF]

Sounds like the judge is starting off the week sighing loudly, wanting a “short” voir dire of a witness, and trying to push the defense’s case through

 

[geevee]

Is today Hank Brennen Day? JBC seems to be bending over backwards to grant his wishes.

Mooooo

 

[missy1974]

Still going through what Dr. Laposata can and can't say... she will testify that he had no bruising on arms, torso, legs. This seems a bit tricky, what the defense can and can't ask and how.

They will do voir dire.

They intend to call their investigator... I didn't catch his name?