VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #36 Retrial

[sunshineray]

Only second to the fan base for "Only Fan", the real star of the trial.
Always spinning but never telling lies to the FBI.

I didn't know KR was considered a star? I thought she's a defendant, for causing the death of someone.

 

[keek]

Thank you this is perfect! Just what I was looking for.

I had also clicked on the KR trial vid, so I assume law nerd knew it was this one I wanted.. really, clueless. but hope it works for you

 

[Malleeboy]

I didn't know KR was considered a star? I thought she's a defendant, for causing the death of someone.

Are you saying you didn't spend time watching the ceiling fan before, after court and during every side bar. No matter what side you're on, I thought we all supported "only fan" the ceiling fan.

 

[Forest_Wood]

What's so remarkable, that she has a fan base?

I think it's remarkable that people have come from so many different places to be outside for the verdict. I've never seen anything like this before. I wouldn't call it a fan base like you are saying. I see them as people who think that if this could happen to her, it could happen to them just as easily. They relate to the circumstances, like standing up for a movement.
MOO

 

[angkg]

What's so remarkable, that she has a fan base?

That so many people are standing up for justice in a case riddled with bias and corruption in the system. As Americans, we should demand better from LE. Massachusetts deserves much better from their DA. It is a travesty that they spent this much money on two trials that should have never been.

 

[jepop]

I didn't know KR was considered a star? I thought she's a defendant, for causing the death of someone.

I think what is not understood by those who choose to believe that KR is guilty is that many, may people absolutely believe, and with good reason, il that she is innocent and has been the subject of an entirely unjust prosecution.Jmo

Look at it this way. When the CW from the get go realised that JOK's lack of injuries made death by vehicle unlikely in the extreme, and at the same time found Proctor's grossly incompetent investigation acceptable, how are people meant to feel when the prosecution none the less goes ahead? In an uncorrupted system this case against KR would have been dropped and other avenues investigated. No? How would you feel?

Then when the fbi began investigating and some time later the CW receives highly damaging exculpatory evidence, they continue to pursue the prosecution.

These people believe Karen Read is innocent. It's pretty obvious why IMO.

 

[trialobsessive]

It appears to me that the CW have thrown everything at this, changing their theory mid-trial to better suit their narrative and have generally created a mess of this.

I think at this stage, we will get a hung jury…

I think KR is not guilty.

 

[sunshineray]

Are you saying you didn't spend time watching the ceiling fan before, after court and during every side bar. No matter what side you're on, I thought we all supported "only fan" the ceiling fan.

Nope I always fast forwarded the fan, the benefit of having to watch the live playback.

 

[sunshineray]

I think it's remarkable that people have come from so many different places to be outside for the verdict. I've never seen anything like this before. I wouldn't call it a fan base like you are saying. I see them as people who think that if this could happen to her, it could happen to them just as easily. They relate to the circumstances, like standing up for a movement.
MOO

I don't think it's remarkable at all considering we live in a world full of online "influencers". A lot of people tend to be herded by what others tell them is happening and not really think things through for themselves, JMO. OJ's trial was much bigger and Michael Jackson's too as far as crowds outside the courthouse. And yes I do see it as a KR fan base, spurred on by youtubers and social media, quite unsightly too. I've never seen a defendant smiling and waving so much while on trial for a major crime. As always, all just my opinions.

 

[sunshineray]

That so many people are standing up for justice in a case riddled with bias and corruption in the system. As Americans, we should demand better from LE. Massachusetts deserves much better from their DA. It is a travesty that they spent this much money on two trials that should have never been.

I see travesty too but not on the prosecution's side. If it's a hung jury again, I hope the CW goes at it for a third time. MO

 

[sunshineray]

I think what is not understood by those who choose to believe that KR is guilty is that many, may people absolutely believe, and with good reason, il that she is innocent and has been the subject of an entirely unjust prosecution.Jmo

Look at it this way. When the CW from the get go realised that JOK's lack of injuries made death by vehicle unlikely in the extreme, and at the same time found Proctor's grossly incompetent investigation acceptable, how are people meant to feel when the prosecution none the less goes ahead? In an uncorrupted system this case against KR would have been dropped and other avenues investigated. No? How would you feel?

Then when the fbi began investigating and some time later the CW receives highly damaging exculpatory evidence, they continue to pursue the prosecution.

These people believe Karen Read is innocent. It's pretty obvious why IMO.

Some people don't believe in her innocence and even believe she admitted the crime, that she lied numerous times, changed her story after she was arrested and charged. MOO

KR was charged with manslaughter while driving under the influence of liquor and leaving the scene of a collision resulting in death, very appropriate charges for what the CW proved happened, by the evidence presented. AJMO

 

[cocomod]

Some people don't believe in her innocence and even believe she admitted the crime, that she lied numerous times, changed her story after she was arrested and charged. MOO

KR was charged with manslaughter while driving under the influence of liquor and leaving the scene of a collision resulting in death, very appropriate charges for what the CW proved happened, by the evidence presented. AJMO

I think it is completely unfair to say that the people who believe her innocent have been swayed by social influencers in a herd mentality. I personally have watched both trials and I think for myself based on the evidence I have seen not read about. I personally believe in her innocence. I do not believe the CW has met their burden of BARD.

One of the biggest issues I have regarding the CW is their burying of exculpatory evidence. They had the responsibility to bring that evidence to light, They should have slowed down and used that $400k to hire an outside investigator to actually investigate the crime. They had the responsibility to use the $400k to be objective in their investigation. Rather than trying to work backwards from the result “the girl did it”, when they realized the lead investigator screwed up so badly that he was investigated himself and would be fired, they should have had an unbiased set of eyes start at the beginning and prove a new case.

 

[Recidivist]

I don't think it's remarkable at all considering we live in a world full of online "influencers". A lot of people tend to be herded by what others tell them is happening and not really think things through for themselves, JMO. OJ's trial was much bigger and Michael Jackson's too as far as crowds outside the courthouse. And yes I do see it as a KR fan base, spurred on by youtubers and social media, quite unsightly too. I've never seen a defendant smiling and waving so much while on trial for a major crime. As always, all just my opinions.

Well, Michael Jackson was being railroaded too by a corrupt investigation and corrupt DA.

 

[angkg]

I see travesty too but not on the prosecution's side. If it's a hung jury again, I hope the CW goes at it for a third time. MO

I am sure the people in that area do not want more of their taxpayer dollars spend on what they basically say is a DUI

 

[angkg]

I don't think it's remarkable at all considering we live in a world full of online "influencers". A lot of people tend to be herded by what others tell them is happening and not really think things through for themselves, JMO. OJ's trial was much bigger and Michael Jackson's too as far as crowds outside the courthouse. And yes I do see it as a KR fan base, spurred on by youtubers and social media, quite unsightly too. I've never seen a defendant smiling and waving so much while on trial for a major crime. As always, all just my opinions.

You used OJ as an example. I think OJ was guilty but he also had corrupt investigators. The jury did their job in that case just as I hope they do their job in this case for the same reason

 

[jepop]

IMO. The single most obscene factor that emerged from the non-investigation into JO's death was the utter lack of regard for his right arm injuries from the very beginning. I'm talking about prosecutorial investigators, not just the MSP.

If the home owner had not been a Boston cop and the lead investigator had not been Proctor, or let's say the investigating body in general had not been a compromised unit of the MSP, how do people think things would have panned out in a normal world?

So the ME cannot account for the arm wounds beyond a basic description and measurement. She says the victim's body as a whole does not exhibit the hallmarks of a vehicle impact, not a break, not a fracture, not a hairline fracture, nary a ripped tendon, NOT A SiNGLE BRUISE.

As the ME shakes her head over the arm abrasions, the competent lead investigator fills her in on some details including that a large German Shepherd dog resides at the property where the victim was found deceased. I don't know ME protocol at this point, but I'd imagine there would have been a heck of alot more investigation and research done at that point to try and identify the cause of those wounds and before long the cw and it's agents would have come to a working hypothesis on probable animal/dog attack. Dr Russell pointed out that emergency physicians deal with live patients who have been bitten and/or scratched by family pets. I just cannot imagine a world where medical investigators for an uncorrupted DA would not do the research. Jmo

Enter a search warrant for the residence if not already executed or perhaps extended search warrant. And a search warrant for Chloe. Teeth measured and compared to the wounds within a short time of the victim's death. Claws measured and compared to the wounds. Wounds swabbed for dog DNA. Moo

And it goes from there, with a good chance of uncovering what really happened, with a chance of finding confirming DNA and traces of blood from somewhere inside that house. Interviews, interrogations all within a reasonable time frame out from JOK's death. Jmo

 

[Tortoise]

So the ME cannot account for the arm wounds beyond a basic description and measurement. She says the victim's body as a whole does not exhibit the hallmarks of a vehicle impact, not a break, not a fracture, not a hairline fracture, nary a ripped tendon, NOT A SiNGLE BRUISE.

RSBM

The ME does not know how the vehicle impacted John, so how can she make any determination? She's not an accident reconstructionist, and the only information she has is broken taillight plastic, not crushed-in car bodywork. She doesn't know that his arm measures up exactly to the taillight because she didn't inspect the car or do those measurements. She doesn't know his eyelid is the same height as the wing. She doesn't know if he could be hit at such an angle in a split second that he could be spun away from the car, causing no lower body injuries.

She couldn't determine how his arm injuries occurred because she's not a biomechanic to determine speeds, forces and properties of materials, and even if she'd said it could be consistent with a car side-swipe, she wouldn't be able to determine whether that was accident or homicide - that is for a jury to decide if no one is forthcoming about knowing he was there, or deliberately or recklessly driving at speed in reverse towards him in the dark. An example of accidental collision could be driving carefully but braking sharply and skidding on ice.

This is the way I see it. If my elbow is hit by a lump of metal traveling at say 20 mph, I would certainly expect bruising and bone fracture. If my elbow is hit by a sheet of frigid plastic, which is travelling at the same speed, and my elbow shatters that plastic for a split-second, I might not expect a bruise or fractured bone, but I would expect skin damage. Because it's broken through the plastic which immediately reduces the force/impact on my bone. IMO bone is stronger than frigid plastic, but it's not stronger than a lump of metal, and it's not going to break the metal.

ARCCA didn't prove that his arm bones would break by breaking through plastic, or bruise him, so they can't give that opinion IMO. They weren't interested, but it's their claim to prove, if that's what they contend. They used a dummy arm to show taillight damage, not arm damage. An arm which is not human bone and flesh, an arm which wouldn't react and bend like a human arm with muscles and ligaments attached to a body which pulls the arm away as the body is spun away and transfers the force to the body, IMO. The commonwealth doesn't have to prove his arm wouldn't break, they can and did certainly show statistics and car accident victims whose bones didn't break, but those circumstances also aren't identical to this collision, and there are unknown variables that cannot be demonstrated without hundreds of human volunteers in hundreds of different positions at hundreds of different speeds and temperatures. There was a man, a sole survivor, who just walked away from a plane crash in the news.

It's the totality of the evidence that the commonwealth has, the car, the scene, the body, the clothing, the DNA, the phone, the defendant, the weather, which proves the collision and the cause of John's injuries and death. Not the ME.

MOO

 

[waldojabba]

I didn't know KR was considered a star? I thought she's a defendant, for causing the death of someone.

As a taxpayer here in Norfolk County I think the “fans” recognize what this trial is about.
Injustice, Police Corruption and a Rush To Judgement.
There was not just no impartial investigation. there really was no investigation, just an effort to frame the “girl”.
I am outraged that we may never know what happened to John because of the lack of investigation and tampering with evidence.
What we do know is that John was not hit by a car - John told us that with his wounds - science tells us that.
JMO

 

[Florida_marlin]

RSBM

The ME does not know how the vehicle impacted John, so how can she make any determination? She's not an accident reconstructionist, and the only information she has is broken taillight plastic, not crushed-in car bodywork. She doesn't know that his arm measures up exactly to the taillight because she didn't inspect the car or do those measurements. She doesn't know his eyelid is the same height as the wing. She doesn't know if he could be hit at such an angle in a split second that he could be spun away from the car, causing no lower body injuries.

She couldn't determine how his arm injuries occurred because she's not a biomechanic to determine speeds, forces and properties of materials, and even if she'd said it could be consistent with a car side-swipe, she wouldn't be able to determine whether that was accident or homicide - that is for a jury to decide if no one is forthcoming about knowing he was there, or deliberately or recklessly driving at speed in reverse towards him in the dark. An example of accidental collision could be driving carefully but braking sharply and skidding on ice.

This is the way I see it. If my elbow is hit by a lump of metal traveling at say 20 mph, I would certainly expect bruising and bone fracture. If my elbow is hit by a sheet of frigid plastic, which is travelling at the same speed, and my elbow shatters that plastic for a split-second, I might not expect a bruise or fractured bone, but I would expect skin damage. Because it's broken through the plastic which immediately reduces the force/impact on my bone. IMO bone is stronger than frigid plastic, but it's not stronger than a lump of metal, and it's not going to break the metal.

ARCCA didn't prove that his arm bones would break by breaking through plastic, or bruise him, so they can't give that opinion IMO. They weren't interested, but it's their claim to prove, if that's what they contend. They used a dummy arm to show taillight damage, not arm damage. An arm which is not human bone and flesh, an arm which wouldn't react and bend like a human arm with muscles and ligaments attached to a body which pulls the arm away as the body is spun away and transfers the force to the body, IMO. The commonwealth doesn't have to prove his arm wouldn't break, they can and did certainly show statistics and car accident victims whose bones didn't break, but those circumstances also aren't identical to this collision, and there are unknown variables that cannot be demonstrated without hundreds of human volunteers in hundreds of different positions at hundreds of different speeds and temperatures. There was a man, a sole survivor, who just walked away from a plane crash in the news.

It's the totality of the evidence that the commonwealth has, the car, the scene, the body, the clothing, the DNA, the phone, the defendant, the weather, which proves the collision and the cause of John's injuries and death. Not the ME.

MOO

You can do that experiment yourself. No need for a PhD, ME, whatever. Got out to your car, swing your arm fast and hard enough to break your taillight consistent with what observed in the evidence of this case. Then, take pictures of your arm and the broken taillight. Post the pictures for all, of us to review. Pretty simple, really.

 

[waldojabba]

. A lot of people tend to be herded by what others tell them is happening and not really think things through for themselves,

RSBM
People can definitely be swayed by others who are charismatic or have a certain “ je ne sais quoi “ we see that in religion and politics and all segments of life.
If you are not a critical thinker you will be unduly influenced - it does not matter if it’s the guy next to you at your local diner or someone you follow online.
For me, tuning out the noise and clearly looking at the evidence in this trial led me to my position. The dog bites and the science.
John’s body told the story of what happened to him.
If only there had been an investigation.
JMO