GUILTY MA - Rachel, 27, & Lillian Entwistle, 9 mos, murdered, 20 Jan 2006

[panthera]

This begs the question: How long was the time gap between NE doing the double murder, and NE leaving the house for his flight to UK? We know he was checking the computer with two dead bodies in the house, (according to his timeline). Just how many showers did NE take in that time frame? Your American showers are a lot better than our over here. How many showers would you have to take to remove GSR? I think he had enough time to keep the shower going constantly, get in, get out, do other things, get in again, and, out again, and again, and again. He had the time to do this. IMO

It wouldn't take that much to wash off GSR and he could've touched a lot of other things before the keys & steering wheel. I wonder if they checked the computer keyboard? I just don't remember it being mentioned. nline:

 

[jilly]

What does the worksop article say?? I could not pull it up?

It's not an article - it's the comments after Robinson's editorial - 10 pages of them!

Here's his article again in case you can get it to work.

http://www.worksopguardian.co.uk/entwistle/Guardian-Editor-34I-only-hope.4231306.jp

 

[DebC]

It wouldn't take that much to wash off GSR and he could've touched a lot of other things before the keys & steering wheel. I wonder if they checked the computer keyboard? I just don't remember it being mentioned. nline:

I'm not sure Panthera.

But, didn't they find GSR on the knife in the kitchen? NE said he found the bodies, then went to the kitchen to get a knife to kill himself, but didn't do it. We know Rachael didn't touch the knife, so who put the GSR on it?

 

[Ciara]

The GSR on the knife is part of what convinces me too Deb. Rachel sure as heck didnt put it on there.

 

[DebC]

The GSR on the knife is part of what convinces me too Deb. Rachel sure as heck didnt put it on there.

Ciara, do you know how NE's defense got this damaging fact excluded as evidence? He, (the lawyer), must have made a convincing argument, but I don't recall seeing it.

 

[Ciara]

I dont know Deb but I am going to have a look round and see if I can find out.
Maybe because it was only a minute amount??
Not that, that matters as I think that knife should have been brought into evidence.

 

[Parmenides]

Are you sure the GSR on the knife was excluded? I was aware of it (see my original post on this whole issue - it was my #2 point as to why we cannot believe the defense scenario). I don't know how I could have been aware of it unless it was presented in testimony. On the other hand, I suppose I may just have read it on this board. Anyway, when the GSR came up, I seem to remember some discussion about the possibility it was left over from when NE went shooting with Joe M back in 2005. That possibility was dismissed on the basis it was too unlikely. It would be dismissed even more clearly if it were established the knives weren't purchased until after the shooting trip. That seems likely, since there would have been little reason for Neil and Rachel to have a knife block (or have it unpacked and in use) until they got their own home.

It seems in this case as though there is nothing that really nails NE.

 

[Ciara]

I read about the knife somewhere after the trial was over. It was part of the list of evidence released that had been excluded from the trial. It may have been on that site where they were blogging the whole trial...I cant remember what it was called...something NeilEntwistle.com.

 

[Ciara]

But Neil said that was the knife he picked up to commit suicide with and then changed his mind so the GSR came off his hands onto that knife then, is my opinion.

 

[biggirl]

But Neil said that was the knife he picked up to commit suicide with and then changed his mind so the GSR came off his hands onto that knife then, is my opinion.

Isn't it just a shame that he did not go through with his idea about suicide?? It would have saved the taxpayers the expense of the trial and room and board for the rest of his life. I am always morosely happy to hear when a murderer has the good sense to do away with themself and spare all of us the job of punishing them.:furious:

 

[Ciara]

Your not the only one biggirl

 

[DebC]

Are you sure the GSR on the knife was excluded? I was aware of it (see my original post on this whole issue - it was my #2 point as to why we cannot believe the defense scenario). I don't know how I could have been aware of it unless it was presented in testimony. On the other hand, I suppose I may just have read it on this board. Anyway, when the GSR came up, I seem to remember some discussion about the possibility it was left over from when NE went shooting with Joe M back in 2005. That possibility was dismissed on the basis it was too unlikely. It would be dismissed even more clearly if it were established the knives weren't purchased until after the shooting trip. That seems likely, since there would have been little reason for Neil and Rachel to have a knife block (or have it unpacked and in use) until they got their own home.

It seems in this case as though there is nothing that really nails NE.

Parmenides, I first heard about the GSR on the knife here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66557&page=5
Post #104 from Molly

 

[Parmenides]

Parmenides, I first heard about the GSR on the knife here:

Thanks. That must be where I heard about it.

What I am longing to see is the conclusive piece of evidence that totally nails NE and shuts the Entwistles up once and for all.

I suppose that is never going to happen, although the GSR on the knife is pretty much there. Is it correct that RE's DNA was not found on the handle and trigger parts of the gun, but NE's was? If so, that would surely blow the suicide theory out of the water. But as I recall that whole testimony about DNA on the gun was a can of worms and not very conclusive.

It has to come back to NE's behaviour. If he were really trying to protect Rachel's reputation, what did he imagine people were going to think when they found the bodies and him gone without telling anyone? And looking up a former girlfriend, with a page of escort agencies in his pocket? This is his way of grieving? And I think the biggest giveaway - why not testify if he is only telling the truth? Obviously, Weinstein knew that Neil's story would come apart on the stand like a pair of paper swimming trunks.

 

[DebC]

Is it correct that RE's DNA was not found on the handle and trigger parts of the gun, but NE's was? If so, that would surely blow the suicide theory out of the water.

Yes. NE's DNA was on the handle and the trigger. RE's DNA was just inside the barrel.

 

[jilly]

I recall hearing something about there only being 3 particles of gsr on the knife and that wasn't evidence enough or something. There were 4 particles on the back of Rachel's hand so that was enough to be considered. The old memory isn't as good as it used to be.:crazy:

 

[panthera]

I'm not sure Panthera.

But, didn't they find GSR on the knife in the kitchen? NE said he found the bodies, then went to the kitchen to get a knife to kill himself, but didn't do it. We know Rachael didn't touch the knife, so who put the GSR on it?

Yes there was but what I was thinking is he could've picked it up before washing off his hands or handling other things. I can't see anyone but NE being the one who killed Rachel & Lillian!

 

[MoonFlwr]

Hi

Although I never posted on these boards during the trial of NE, I followed the whole thing.

I am not suggesting that he is not guilty, but I still can't settle my mind on a firm motive for killing Rachel and Lily. :waitasec:

 

[Parmenides]

I am not suggesting that he is not guilty, but I still can't settle my mind on a firm motive for killing Rachel and Lily. :waitasec:

I would say they had just come to seem like a millstone round his neck. He wanted to be free again. He was probably sick of Rachel, and probably the baby too. He didn't like it in the US. Things weren't going his way, as he hadn't found a job. Maybe he thought Rachel had expensive tastes (no income, but they're out buying candles for the house) and didn't appreciate his financial problems (even though it was his fault for not sharing the situation with her). He just looked to the future and saw a dead-end, stuck to this family, and felt fear and anxiety about how he was going to provide for them and meet his responsibilities - also the feeling that he was missing out on sexual opportunities.

At the end of the day, though, his thinking was obviously distorted if he thought killing his wife and child was a good option, so we should not expect to find some clear logical reason. It was probably based on feelings that he could not put into words or even explain to himself.

What is undeniable is that, on finding Rachel and Lillian dead, whether he did it or not, he behaved in a quite bizarre way that was clearly not going to have a happy outcome. It shows a lack of cleverness, forethought and attention to the consequences, which is the same sort of behaviour he exhibited when he shot his family.

 

[panthera]

Hi

Although I never posted on these boards during the trial of NE, I followed the whole thing.

I am not suggesting that he is not guilty, but I still can't settle my mind on a firm motive for killing Rachel and Lily. :waitasec:

Hi! :seeya: I think his motive was he was living a lie (as to finances and his offshore accounts), he was about to get caught, wanted out of the family life and to go back home to England.
:cow: (sorry, I couldn't resist using this!)

 

[jilly]

What is undeniable is that, on finding Rachel and Lillian dead, whether he did it or not, he behaved in a quite bizarre way that was clearly not going to have a happy outcome. It shows a lack of cleverness, forethought and attention to the consequences, which is the same sort of behaviour he exhibited when he shot his family.

I'm still leaning towards it being a botched murder suicide. I think after he saw Lilly suffer he came to his senses and couldn't kill himself. I think he might have even been planning this for awhile and possibly took the gun on MLK Day (Jan 16th) when they were last at the Matterazzo's. He really had no plan in place for getting out of a double murder.

After killing them for some reason he became sexually aroused and went on the internet and possibly relieved himself. After that he scrambled to get the heck out of Dodge.