MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #2

[ThinkHard]

I didn't state it was a community event. That was someone else, who I hope will post a link.

I didn't mean you did. Just whoever opened up that conversation did. Sorry about any confusion.

 

[Razz]

I agree with your post. LE most likely believe that the perp used a vehicle.

What FACTS do we have?

http://hudson.wickedlocal.com/news/...rned-after-nyc-womans-body-found-in-princeton



http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment...le-Employee-s-Death-While-Jogging-9130165.php




http://www.telegram.com/article/20160808/NEWS/160809371



http://www.telegram.com/article/20160808/NEWS/160809344


JMO

Speculating in this case waters it down for me, IMO.
I wish we could put together an accurate timeline with links and facts. Not that it will catch a killer but will help us to understand Vanessa's movements and the crime as it unfolded. I think LE will keep info close to the vest if they do have leads or a POI, but I still believe from reports that LE has stated they do not know if this was random or targeted. If they need the publics help they will ask for it, if they alert the public to be cautious they mean that. Watching the local LE and their behavior at different crimes and cases gives good insight as to the scope of an investigation.

Let's use links for any information that is more than just "our opinion". I sure hope we will be getting some updates now that the funeral (RIP beautiful Vanessa) is over. I wonder what is brewing in that community? All eyes are on you.

Be Safe locals~

JMO

I think if you ask one of the mods, they can place these articles at the beginning of the thread. Much easier to find that way and everyone knows where to go.

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[1306kayaker]

Given the narrow shoulder on that road, I assume VM was running against traffic which would put her on the side of the road opposite the cart path. While it is possible he ambushed her from behind and even incapacitated her, it seems hard to imagine him dragging her across two lanes of traffic into the woods. With the possibility of a car coming south around that curve at any moment, he would have to be quick. This makes me agree with the possibility of her being killed in another location - however I don't think she went willingly.


Many years ago I was grabbed by a young man while out running in a public park in an area not unlike Princeton. Fortunately he only fondled me. It happened very suddenly and I barely registered what had happened before he ran off. I grew up with brothers and didn't shy away from physical confrontation, but this happened so quickly and was so shocking that I neither screamed nor fought back. It wouldn't surprise me at all if VM could not get out a scream.

Finally, as small female (5'1"/110) who has run - mostly alone - for more than 35 years, this crime really struck a cord with me. Thank you for this outlet - it has been helpful.

Female jogger - so sorry this happened to you! As a female jogger myself, I've been trying to determine her route. I'm also thinking she might have crossed the road and ran south away from the cart path. I think the hills are more favorable to running that way as well. Based on an average running time of 11:00 minutes/mile that would put her at the Mt Barn cell tower (her cell phone's last known location at 2:30) around 2:00ish and then back in the vicinity of the cart path around 2:30. I haven't seen anything about the direction of her run in the media but if she went south, she'd be out running for a lot longer before she reached the path, opening the timeframe for someone to see her jog by.

 

[femalejogger]

Female jogger - so sorry this happened to you! As a female jogger myself, I've been trying to determine her route. I'm also thinking she might have crossed the road and ran south away from the cart path. I think the hills are more favorable to running that way as well. Based on an average running time of 11:00 minutes/mile that would put her at the Mt Barn cell tower (her cell phone's last known location at 2:30) around 2:00ish and then back in the vicinity of the cart path around 2:30. I haven't seen anything about the direction of her run in the media but if she went south, she'd be out running for a lot longer before she reached the path, opening the timeframe for someone to see her jog by.

Thanks kayaker; though I wasn't physically damaged, it was an eye opener for my "what could possibly go wrong" teenage mind.

I believe Tempura stated that VM's MapMyRun app showed her always heading north from her Mom's. This is slightly surprising to me as I would think it would be easier to head south and stay on the inside of the circle rather than have to navigate each intersection on the outside (not sure if that makes sense!)

 

[DatelineFan]

If you wanted to have a private conversation with someone you wouldn't go to a public place to meet, you'd find some place private. There would have been only one local place open at the time anyway...and it's definetly not a place you could have a private conversation.

Also most 27 year olds are definetly not married around here or settled down with families. Peolple get married later. Career wise I think it would surprise you what very professional people do in their off time, especially those still in their 20's.

Perhaps you've had different experiences with your direct peers, and since neither of us (I believe) know Vanessa first hand, either "type" could be the one that fits what could have been likely or unlikely for her.

Again I'm not saying she did meet someone, but nothing about her characters, age, profession etc....would make me inclined to think its impossible either.

I have had private conversations with friends. If we don't want to be in public, we just sit in the car. I've never felt it necessary to go into the woods. *shrug* it just seems extreme.

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[ThinkHard]

Female jogger - so sorry this happened to you! As a female jogger myself, I've been trying to determine her route. I'm also thinking she might have crossed the road and ran south away from the cart path. I think the hills are more favorable to running that way as well. Based on an average running time of 11:00 minutes/mile that would put her at the Mt Barn cell tower (her cell phone's last known location at 2:30) around 2:00ish and then back in the vicinity of the cart path around 2:30. I haven't seen anything about the direction of her run in the media but if she went south, she'd be out running for a lot longer before she reached the path, opening the timeframe for someone to see her jog by.

I'm confused (I'm also not a runner so bear with me) but i do know the MNt barn is just over 3 miles from here house no matter which direction she left from....would that put her running by it closer to 130 then 200 if she left her moms at 1pm, and thus in that scenario running past the cart path at a little before 2?

I've also heard she left her moms at 115....pushing up the timeline a bit....in which scenario she'd be passing MNt barn closer to 145 and running past the cart path a little after 2?

 

[1306kayaker]

I agree - I would head south myself, partly because the run would end on a downhill. I'll take another look at MapMy Ride -I don't use it and didn't realize it had that much detail.

 

[ThinkHard]

I have had private conversations with friends. If we don't want to be in public, we just sit in the car. I've never felt it necessary to go into the woods. *shrug* it just seems extreme.

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Well I don't think they would have had to meet in the woods, I think he could have picked her up by car to go talk somewhere else (like perhaps the parking lot of MNT barn where her cell phone pinged)

But I will say around here, where there is not too many places to go, I can say from first hand experience I've been picked up to go have a conversation in a car before, and we would park at a pull off path similar to that.

So it's not just like hey let's go meet in the woods, it just so happens around here those might be good places to park and talk (not saying that place specifically), just a backroad pull off in general.

 

[ThinkHard]

I agree - I would head south myself, partly because the run would end on a downhill. I'll take another look at MapMy Ride -I don't use it and didn't realize it had that much detail.

Even if she went south on Brooks station road, she'd still be running up hill on the second half along 31. Just fyi

 

[ThinkHard]

Btw I wanted to share this article:

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/sea...ller-turns-to-sex-offender-registry/424316895

However I'm going to cross reference it because I don't think all of his info is accurate and some I think is misleading... For example unless he has insider access I'm finding 0 registered sex offenders in Princeton, which matches up with other things I've read, and word of mouth from a town cop.

 

[Lawdini01234]

I'm confused (I'm also not a runner so bear with me) but i do know the MNt barn is just over 3 miles from here house no matter which direction she left from....would that put her running by it closer to 130 then 200 if she left her moms at 1pm, and thus in that scenario running past the cart path at a little before 2?

I've also heard she left her moms at 115....pushing up the timeline a bit....in which scenario she'd be passing MNt barn closer to 145 and running past the cart path a little after 2?

I've viewed her mapmyrun and she didn't always run this route your speaking about. Sometimes she ran to mountain road and turned around. If she took this route then she would be a little over an hour. This would put her coming back on brooks station.


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[1306kayaker]

I'm confused (I'm also not a runner so bear with me) but i do know the MNt barn is just over 3 miles from here house no matter which direction she left from....would that put her running by it closer to 130 then 200 if she left her moms at 1pm, and thus in that scenario running past the cart path at a little before 2?

I've also heard she left her moms at 115....pushing up the timeline a bit....in which scenario she'd be passing MNt barn closer to 145 and running past the cart path a little after 2?

Yes - there's definitely some wiggle room here. I added some time for a stretch/ slower warm up in the beginning and her average pace on Map my run was actually 11.5 min/ miles so approximately 35/40 minutes to the Mt Barn and another 30 minutes to the cart path, give or take 15 minutes. I was also assuming a 1:15 start time. Does that help clear up the numbers

 

[femalejogger]

If she headed north, she would have reached the cart path in 5-6 minutes. If she headed south, she would have reached the Mtn Barn in a little over a half hour and the cart path in approx one hour. She may have spent a couple of minutes stretching before she left the house so you could add that on to the total time in either direction. And, given the heat of the day, her pace may have been slightly slower.

And thanks for your kinds words ThinkHard.

 

[WideOpen]

Female jogger - so sorry this happened to you! As a female jogger myself, I've been trying to determine her route. I'm also thinking she might have crossed the road and ran south away from the cart path. I think the hills are more favorable to running that way as well. Based on an average running time of 11:00 minutes/mile that would put her at the Mt Barn cell tower (her cell phone's last known location at 2:30) around 2:00ish and then back in the vicinity of the cart path around 2:30. I haven't seen anything about the direction of her run in the media but if she went south, she'd be out running for a lot longer before she reached the path, opening the timeframe for someone to see her jog by.

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Search-for-Answers-in-Joggers-Death-Continues-389832011.html

Marcotte's last known location alive may have been near a restaurant in town. Employees at Mountain Barn Restaurant tell necn her family came there to look for her after her cell phone pinged a tower next door.

The article originally had the time listed as 2:30, but it now seems they have taken that exact time of the ping out of new reports. If anyone else can confirm the time of her last cell phone ping that would help narrow down a time line.

Here's a new article that mentions the "Mountain Barn Cell Phone Ping"
http://www.necn.com/news/new-england...389832011.html

Sounds like they only know that her phone connected to the tower next to the Mountain Barn restaurant ~2:30PM. (You can see the tower in street view on google maps, at the light department property to the right of the restaurant.) Princeton is extremely hilly and sparsely populated -- I'm not sure how many towers there actually are. It doesn't sound, from this article, that the ping actually indicates that she was particularly close to the Mountain Barn restaurant. (The restaurant is less than a mile from the crime scene "as the crow flies", but several miles by road.)

Taken from thread 1, post by Wachusett, pg 45

jmo

ETA; Thank you to the WS members who are active joggers. Your opinions and discussion help to clarify info.

 

[ThinkHard]

I've viewed her mapmyrun and she didn't always run this route your speaking about. Sometimes she ran to mountain road and turned around. If she took this route then she would be a little over an hour. This would put her coming back on brooks station.


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If she was running toward mountain road though she wouldn't be going south.

 

[ThinkHard]

Yes - there's definitely some wiggle room here. I added some time for a stretch/ slower warm up in the beginning and her average pace on Map my run was actually 11.5 min/ miles so approximately 35/40 minutes to the Mt Barn and another 30 minutes to the cart path, give or take 15 minutes. I was also assuming a 1:15 start time. Does that help clear up the numbers

So if she went this way your suggesting she would have gone past the cart path around 215? Correct?

 

[femalejogger]

Here is a possibility that hasn't been discussed before: it has been ridiculously hot in New England this summer. VM was probably used to running in the evening after work and, if she was mostly running the High Line and Chelsea area, she may have benefitted from a breeze off the river. Fast forward to a very hot, humid mid-day run. Could the heat have prompted her to walk part of her route? And could someone she knew or at least recognized from the neighborhood have offered her a ride home? Knowing that she was on a tight schedule to catch the bus back to NYC, a ride might have been appealing.

 

[ThinkHard]

If she headed north, she would have reached the cart path in 5-6 minutes. If she headed south, she would have reached the Mtn Barn in a little over a half hour and the cart path in approx one hour. She may have spent a couple of minutes stretching before she left the house so you could add that on to the total time in either direction. And, given the heat of the day, her pace may have been slightly slower.

And thanks for your kinds words ThinkHard.

So it seems btw this and a few precious things people mentioned, there are basically two times that would have put her in that spot depending on the rt....either around 115, or around 215.....if she was indeed ambushed on a run.

 

[Lawdini01234]

If she was running toward mountain road though she wouldn't be going south.

Right..Is there something factual stating she went south? I've been following the thread from the start and haven't seen anything.

From what I have gathered from her mapmyrun routes (that are logged) in Princeton she always headed north. Just going off of the usual routes she ran I would be highly inclined to think she went north.

 

[ThinkHard]

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Search-for-Answers-in-Joggers-Death-Continues-389832011.html


The article originally had the time listed as 2:30, but it now seems they have taken that exact time of the ping out of new reports. If anyone else can confirm the time of her last cell phone ping that would help narrow down a time line.


Taken from thread 1, post by Wachusett, pg 45

jmo

ETA; Thank you to the WS members who are active joggers. Your opinions and discussion help to clarify info.

When it was first reported that kept writing it as 2:25pm....I remember that specifically because I remember thinking....hmm that's specific why not just say 230z