MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[ThinkHard]

Agreed.



Thank you, ThinkHard. It's great of you to take the time. I've been cruising the street views of the area for hours. This spot stands out in so many ways. The freak who did this may have taken a lot of time to select it. As has been noted upthread, there's a clear view of the road either way. Then there's the incline, where I have the arrow. A person could have hidden there and had that clear view without being exposed. A runner approaching could be caught off guard, then dragged away unseen. Could he have lurked there Sunday after Sunday for the perfect timing? If he had, how would he have avoided being noticed before?

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He could have walked through the woods and had access to any number of parking lots on Worcester Rd or the Bible camp and gotten away completely unseen, which he seems to have. I keep thinking that he never risked being seen in a car in that area that day, if he had before. This could to be somebody who observed the route of Vanessa's jog and picked this spot and that day because he had the patience to wait for the perfect time.

What bible camp? There is no bible camp there. It's a church (I don't know if anyone who goes to it though) but not a bible camp. We don't really have those up here.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm not able to upload the screenshot of the view, but I agree. This should give you an overview. It seems to be somebody who knew the area, the patterns, how not to leave tracks, whether local or not, it would have taken time to plan. They should be asking people if they ran into any hikers or unfamiliar individuals in the woods between Brooks Station and Worcester going back months if not weeks, especially on Sundays. For some reason the whole car sighting thing doesn't make sense to me. This seems too well planned for the perp's car to have been seen on that road between 1 and 3 pm, unless they have tracks in the crime scene area. If LE had any tire tracks, then the size of the car at least would be easier to guess, but they haven't been specific about it. If she started her jog circuit at 1 pm, then the 2:45 ping of her phone could have been when the perp walked through the woods and away toward Worcester. Could dogs pick up his scent from the potential hiding spot?

There aren't hiking trails in those woods between Worcester road and Brooks station, it wouldn't be a place you'd see hikers. You see hikers on the opposite side of the center of town and near the mountain. But there aren't trails through those woods, as they are all private property.

 

[FindHG]

What bible camp? There is no bible camp there. It's a church (I don't know if anyone who goes to it though) but not a bible camp. We don't really have those up here.

Here, sorry, Bible Chapel, just down the road on Brooks Station. As you can see, they have a pretty big parking lot, not that far away.

There aren't hiking trails in those woods between Worcester road and Brooks station, it wouldn't be a place you'd see hikers. You see hikers on the opposite side of the center of town and near the mountain. But there aren't trails through those woods, as they are all private property.

So anyone lingering around in the woods there would have been out of place, if noticed. I wonder if any of the bigger houses may have had motion detecting sec cams in the woods there.

 

[ThinkHard]

My hunch on this case is that the crime scene is staged to look like a random crime of opportunity.

I feel like it's more likely she knew her killer, and that she intentionally met up with him on this Sunday afternoon. (There could be a variety of scenarios for exactly how she knew this person). I also don't think he neccasrily intentionally meant to kill her.

I think something happened, some kind of disagreement that either made him angry or gave this person a need to quiet her.

I think when he realized what he had done he thought quickly, on how to cover his tracks. And his way of doing so was to stage the crime to look like something other then what it was.

So he brought her body back to the same spot he picked her up from. Dragged it into the woods and staged it too look like a crime of opportunity. Therefor throwing the cops of his scent of searching for clues outside of that site. If the police believe she was killed there, they'd have no reason to look elsewhere. The burning might have been an attempt to cover DNA, but it also could be because it was personal and he couldn't stand to see her face after she had been diseased.

Just a theory.

 

[ThinkHard]

Here, sorry, Bible Chapel, just down the road on Brooks Station. As you can see, they have a pretty big parking lot, not that far away.



So anyone lingering around in the woods there would have been out of place, if noticed. I wonder if any of the bigger houses may have had motion detecting sec cams in the woods there.

Yes I know where it is, just never knew anyone who went there growing up.

The thing is though her body was found pretty far north from where that parking lot is. The perp would have to go down Brooks station road to get to it too, and go past a lot of house including Vanessa's mom. So
I don't think parking there would make much sense as a getaway spot from where her body was dumped.

 

[Paulas88]

My hunch on this case is that the crime scene is staged to look like a random crime of opportunity.

I feel like it's more likely she knew her killer, and that she intentionally met up with him on this Sunday afternoon. (There could be a variety of scenarios for exactly how she knew this person). I also don't think he neccasrily intentionally meant to kill her.

I think something happened, some kind of disagreement that either made him angry or gave this person a need to quiet her.

I think when he realized what he had done he thought quickly, on how to cover his tracks. And his way of doing so was to stage the crime to look like something other then what it was.

So he brought her body back to the same spot he picked her up from. Dragged it into the woods and staged it too look like a crime of opportunity. Therefor throwing the cops of his scent of searching for clues outside of that site. If the police believe she was killed there, they'd have no reason to look elsewhere. The burning might have been an attempt to cover DNA, but it also could be because it was personal and he couldn't stand to see her face after she had been diseased.

Just a theory.

I think if she was meeting someone, there'd be some cell phone evidence of just that. Like... " I'll meet you at so n so" , something like that.

 

[FindHG]

Yes I know where it is, just never knew anyone who went there growing up.

The thing is though her body was found pretty far north from where that parking lot is. The perp would have to go down Brooks station road to get to it too, and go past a lot of house including Vanessa's mom. So
I don't think parking there would make much sense as a getaway spot from where her body was dumped.

Not if he went through the woods. I imagine that the Chapel brings in people from outside the area, especially on Sundays, but the walking across to Worcester Rd would've been a shorter trek and the ping may indicate that as well, or be a way to distract. Maybe that's why the phone was kept?

Thank you, ThinkHard, for making me think.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think if she was meeting someone, there'd be some cell phone evidence of just that. Like... " I'll meet you at so n so" , something like that.

You'd think, and perhaps there is. There is also the possibility that it was a standing meet up time, i.e. They always met during her run/walk, and thus no cell record of this encounter. There could also be another way they were communicating like through an app that would delete text (meaning it would take much longer to find this info out). It's also possible that if Vanessa was seeing someone they may have been tech Savy and smart like her and perhaps have known a way to munipulate data. As far as we know, I don't believe her cell phone was ever found.

 

[ThinkHard]

Not if he went through the woods. I imagine that the Chapel brings in people from outside the area, especially on Sundays.

The chapel is on the opposite side of the street as where her body was found though, so how would going through the woods get him to the church?

As far as who goes to that church, I have no idea, it may bring in people from other communities I have no idea. I know many of the other local church's though are pretty heavy with townies..People tend not to travel far to go to church around her.

 

[FindHG]

The chapel is on the opposite side of the street as where her body was found though, so how would going through the woods get him to the church?

As far as who goes to that church, I have no idea, it may bring in people from other communities I have no idea. I know many of the other local church's though are pretty heavy with townies..People tend not to travel far to go to church around her.

He would've crossed the street. The Chapel seems to have a pretty big congregation http://heritagebiblechapel.org/about-us/history/. Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting any connection, at all, besides logistics, cover, access, in terms of what was happening in Princeton at the time Vanessa would jog on Sundays on Brooks Station Road.

 

[DatelineFan]

You'd think, and perhaps there is. There is also the possibility that it was a standing meet up time, i.e. They always met during her run/walk, and thus no cell record of this encounter. There could also be another way they were communicating like through an app that would delete text (meaning it would take much longer to find this info out). It's also possible that if Vanessa was seeing someone they may have been tech Savy and smart like her and perhaps have known a way to munipulate data. As far as we know, I don't believe her cell phone was ever found.

They would have records by now. At least of phone calls and texts, no matter what's ok the physical device.

 

[ThinkHard]

He would've crossed the street. The Chapel seems to have a pretty big congregation http://heritagebiblechapel.org/about-us/history/. Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting any connection, at all, besides logistics, cover, access, in terms of what was happening in Princeton at the time Vanessa would jog on Sundays on Brooks Station Road.

I would think most church goers would be long gone by 1-3pm though as most masses are Sunday mornings.

Also just for clarification I think I'm lost on where you are going with the theory. Do you think he would have had a bike at that parking lot? Or a car? Where would he have gone after? Thanks in advance!

 

[ThinkHard]

They would have records by now. At least of phone calls and texts, no matter what's ok the physical device.

Maybe, maybe not. Whether they do or don't though, I doubt we would hear about this information or any leads they were pursuing with that information. Also if she was texting someone who didn't have a contracted self phone but rather a "burner phone" it would make it difficult to figure out who she was texting, even if they knew she was texting someone.

 

[carbuff]

I've been told by two different people that there was a funeral at that church that Sunday. I can't find out who it was though.


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[FindHG]

I would think most church goers would be long gone by 1-3pm though as most masses are Sunday mornings.

Also just for clarification I think I'm lost on where you are going with the theory. Do you think he would have had a bike at that parking lot? Or a car? Where would he have gone after? Thanks in advance!

I don't blame you. I bumble my way around, but as per the reasons mentioned.

On another topic, fire in a crime like this, my impression from previous cases is that it's done to destroy evidence, but usually way out of view, and even if not, as is in courageous Jessica Chamber's case, more effectively.

May I ask those of you who've been following Vanessa Marcotte's murder better than I, does it seem like an organized or disorganized act considering grabbing her initially seems somewhat organized, considering he has yet to be caught?

Are there many vacant house in this neighborhood?

 

[jbbb]

I think the police know a great deal they are not revealing. Details of cell phone messages or texts would be revealed if it would forward their investigation. I will be surprised if this information isn't made public for a long while. They are going to want to be sure to have all the evidence they need in hand.

 

[jbbb]

Also, in response to the fire topic, this struck me, as a not very well thought out idea, to get rid of evidence, hands, feet, face. Someone who used fire, as part of a plan, wouldn't leave much behind. I think this person was trying to cover their tracks on the spur of the moment.

 

[ThinkHard]

I've been told by two different people that there was a funeral at that church that Sunday. I can't find out who it was though.


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I believe the funeral mentioned on that Sunday was at Prince of Peace church in Princeton center.

 

[carbuff]

I believe the funeral mentioned on that Sunday was at Prince of Peace church in Princeton center.

Ah, thanks. My friends were driving through on their way to a hike, so I don't suppose they're that familiar with which church is which.

*off to see whether having the right church helps locate the funeral*

 

[FindHG]

Also, in response to the fire topic, this struck me, as a not very well thought out idea, to get rid of evidence, hands, feet, face. Someone who used fire, as part of a plan, wouldn't leave much behind. I think this person was trying to cover their tracks on the spur of the moment.

Thank you, jbbb. So organized enough to pick the spot, the time, his mark, not be seen, before murdering her. Then too disorganized to destroy all the evidence, considering his DNA has to be all over scene if he was beat up right there.

Seems maybe young or new at this and an idiot either way, by those lights.

I've been told by two different people that there was a funeral at that church that Sunday. I can't find out who it was though.


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Thank you, great to know and so nice to see you.

I believe the funeral mentioned on that Sunday was at Prince of Peace church in Princeton center.

You're gem, thanks again!