MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #4

[JEF]

"A state police source at the scene told NewsCenter 5 that it was not immediately clear if Marcotte was assaulted, but she was naked. The woman's hands, feet and part of head were burned, the source said."

http://www.wcvb.com/news/police-search-for-missing-jogger/41096848

IMO I think references to "out in the open" refer more to exposed as not buried or covered.

Thanks for finding that, steleheart. By saying "out in the open" I simply meant that she was left outside not far from her home. I've read many comments about her being left naked. The strong implication is that she was not covered by anything. But again I don't know. There seems to be a pretty strong sentiment on here that investigators know more than they're saying and may have a suspect in mind. As I said I don't agree. But at this point I have nothing constructive to add. I truly hope Justice will be served some day.

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[Steleheart]

Thanks for finding that, steleheart. By saying "out in the open" I simply meant that she was left outside not far from her home. I've read many comments about her being left naked. The strong implication is that she was not covered by anything. But again I don't know. There seems to be a pretty strong sentiment on here that investigators know more than they're saying and may have a suspect in mind. As I said I don't agree. But at this point I have nothing constructive to add. I truly hope Justice will be served some day.

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Thanks. Yes and this was a State Police source AT the scene speaking to a reporter. So yes, up the path in a secluded wood, but not that far - as if to be found. Not covered, or hidden, no covering by branches, etc. Just left. Disposed of. IMO.

I don't know if this "source" knew more - he could have been directing traffic for all we know. But the implication is that there was no effort to hide the body in that wood.

 

[Rocky1]

Thanks. Yes and this was a State Police source AT the scene speaking to a reporter. So yes, up the path in a secluded wood, but not that far - as if to be found. Not covered, or hidden, no covering by branches, etc. Just left. Disposed of. IMO.

I don't know if this "source" knew more - he could have been directing traffic for all we know. But the implication is that there was no effort to hide the body in that wood.

Not that far up the path at all.
I took a ride up Brook Station Rd. last week. Now that the foliage is mostly gone, I wanted to see how far in the path I could see. There was blue ribbon that marked the crime scene still hanging on some bushes. I know there were questions about how far back in the woods she was found, and unless there is more blue ribbon further back that I couldn't see, it was only about 100 ft from the road, maybe even a little less.
Another thing that I noticed, is that the path is separate from the Conner Lane extension that was discussed. They both exit at the same place on Brook Station Rd, however, the path where VM was found is 90 degrees to the road. Conner Lane goes off between 2 stone walls at about roughly 300 degrees (about 10 oclock) if you were standing at the road facing the path. I remember MSM saying there was an opening where someone had excavated where she was found. Maybe that path was a driveway for a house that was going to be built?
One other thing that I noticed, is to the right of the path,(south) behind the guardrail, is a gully that is about 15 feet deep, meaning the path is built up to make it level with the road. I'm not saying this happened, but if someone was in wait, they could have hid in that gully without being seen, then ambushed her. That gully was hard to see last summer with all the tall grass etc.
I'll post the path again from Google Maps. If you pan out to a top view, you can see not only the gully, but also where Conner Lane exits.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.437...4!1swUDhqHyFMGZYhtDdiYpJDA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Kickoff61]

Thank you Rocky

 

[Kickoff61]

How do we know there were not branches or anything around her or on top of her?

 

[Kickoff61]

Thanks for finding that, steleheart. By saying "out in the open" I simply meant that she was left outside not far from her home. I've read many comments about her being left naked. The strong implication is that she was not covered by anything. But again I don't know. There seems to be a pretty strong sentiment on here that investigators know more than they're saying and may have a suspect in mind. As I said I don't agree. But at this point I have nothing constructive to add. I truly hope Justice will be served some day.

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It is really heard to know anything for certain, with only silence and no facts or updates reported.

 

[Kickoff61]

It appears this is a very calculating, killer with possible past crime experience (but may have never been caught). Much time passed, and yet not enough for probable cause to arrest, that we know of.

I still believe what looked to be disorganized actions could have been due to an unexpected level of fighting from her and running out of time, or someone coming along in the daylight of the afternoon while things were happening, etc. However, I do not believe the person is necessarily disorganized in general.

 

[The Farm]

It is really heard to know anything for certain, with only silence and no facts or updates reported.[/QU


I know the silence and no facts equals I am at a standstill. I do keep hoping that something comes to light but that has not happened yet and just might not.

 

[searunner]

Respectfully, snippet.

One other thing that I noticed, is to the right of the path,(south) behind the guardrail, is a gully that is about 15 feet deep, meaning the path is built up to make it level with the road. I'm not saying this happened, but if someone was in wait, they could have hid in that gully without being seen, then ambushed her. That gully was hard to see last summer with all the tall grass etc.

That's a good theory. If true, it also provide more support for the theory that this was a local man. From what you said, it doesn't appear that gully hiding spot would be visible even to those who traveled on BSR frequently (but had no reason to get out of car at that point). Correct?

My posts are opinion and speculation only, and may not be used for any purpose outside of this forum.

 

[Rocky1]

Respectfully, snippet.

That's a good theory. If true, it also provide more support for the theory that this was a local man. From what you said, it doesn't appear that gully hiding spot would be visible even to those who traveled on BSR frequently (but had no reason to get out of car at that point). Correct?

My posts are opinion and speculation only, and may not be used for any purpose outside of this forum.

Yes, I think that it would be very easy to hide in the gully without being seen, especially with the guard rail adding cover with the weeds under the guard rail, like a wall. He could have watched for traffic coming easier from that position as well.
I have always thought he is a local man, either living along the route she jogged, or rode a bicycle on that road enough to know her schedule, possibly riding in the path at one time or another to relieve himself. I keep saying he was on a bike, because he had to get away without being noticed, and that's the perfect way to do so. I still think if he was on foot, someone would have noticed that, especially if he had scratches on his face etc.
He may have rode by her when she first left her Moms house, got far enough ahead, ditched his bike on the woods and hid in that gully.
I like many others, are at a stand still, but truthfully, I don't think they have any clue who it is. I hope I am wrong.

 

[The Farm]

Yes, I think that it would be very easy to hide in the gully without being seen, especially with the guard rail adding cover with the weeds under the guard rail, like a wall. He could have watched for traffic coming easier from that position as well.
I have always thought he is a local man, either living along the route she jogged, or rode a bicycle on that road enough to know her schedule, possibly riding in the path at one time or another to relieve himself. I keep saying he was on a bike, because he had to get away without being noticed, and that's the perfect way to do so. I still think if he was on foot, someone would have noticed that, especially if he had scratches on his face etc.
He may have rode by her when she first left her Moms house, got far enough ahead, ditched his bike on the woods and hid in that gully.
I like many others, are at a stand still, but truthfully, I don't think they have any clue who it is. I hope I am wrong.

Yes I have thought a local right from the beginning. As far as being seen it would be an easy escape through some woods if he knew where he was going and knew the layout of the area. I know in my little Massachusetts town it would be rather easy to do IF you know where you are. There is not always someone going by and there would be opportunities to get away quite easily.
I know it sounds to easy but I can see it being done. And I hate to say it too but I really do not think they know who this is. And of course I hope I am wrong.

 

[Razz]

Yes I have thought a local right from the beginning. As far as being seen it would be an easy escape through some woods if he knew where he was going and knew the layout of the area. I know in my little Massachusetts town it would be rather easy to do IF you know where you are. There is not always someone going by and there would be opportunities to get away quite easily.
I know it sounds to easy but I can see it being done. And I hate to say it too but I really do not think they know who this is. And of course I hope I am wrong.

I do think they know who it is or have a very good idea of who it is for all the reasons you suggested.

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[The Farm]

I do think they know who it is or have a very good idea of who it is for all the reasons you suggested.

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Anything is possible at this point and time. I just edited to add that my postings are only my speculations up until now.

 

[Joshua M]

Not that far up the path at all.
I took a ride up Brook Station Rd. last week. Now that the foliage is mostly gone, I wanted to see how far in the path I could see. There was blue ribbon that marked the crime scene still hanging on some bushes. I know there were questions about how far back in the woods she was found, and unless there is more blue ribbon further back that I couldn't see, it was only about 100 ft from the road, maybe even a little less.
Another thing that I noticed, is that the path is separate from the Conner Lane extension that was discussed. They both exit at the same place on Brook Station Rd, however, the path where VM was found is 90 degrees to the road. Conner Lane goes off between 2 stone walls at about roughly 300 degrees (about 10 oclock) if you were standing at the road facing the path. I remember MSM saying there was an opening where someone had excavated where she was found. Maybe that path was a driveway for a house that was going to be built?
One other thing that I noticed, is to the right of the path,(south) behind the guardrail, is a gully that is about 15 feet deep, meaning the path is built up to make it level with the road. I'm not saying this happened, but if someone was in wait, they could have hid in that gully without being seen, then ambushed her. That gully was hard to see last summer with all the tall grass etc.
I'll post the path again from Google Maps. If you pan out to a top view, you can see not only the gully, but also where Conner Lane exits.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.437...4!1swUDhqHyFMGZYhtDdiYpJDA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Brilliant link - thank you.

I have believed all along that this was a lay-in-wait ambush – someone who had seen Vanessa or other girls running on Brooks Station Road on Sundays and was patiently waiting on 7 August for her or any other young lady to come by. But now having seen the length of Brooks Station Road and the way it bends around, to me opens up the possibility that the perpetrator passed Vanessa (either on bike or car) in the initial stages of her run/walk that day. Perhaps he then sped along and pulled off the road and parked as far down the cart path as he could – and then waited for her.

The significance of this is that it perhaps widens the net of possible perpetrators – perhaps he didn’t know her routine on a Sunday, perhaps he had never seen her running in that part of town before, and even perhaps he doesn’t live in the immediate Princeton area. Was he out hunting for victims that Sunday and came across Vanessa randomly after passing her on bike or car? If so, I still think to find the cart path, know that there was nobody around that area that would hear, and pull off the crime, he is likely familiar with the area and therefore a local. But the scenario I have outlined slightly lessens that possibility. At the least it lessens the possibility that he knows her routine and had seen her before. Therefore, this may widen the net of possible perpetrators and consequently make the case more difficult to solve.

 

[Rocky1]

Brilliant link - thank you.

I have believed all along that this was a lay-in-wait ambush – someone who had seen Vanessa or other girls running on Brooks Station Road on Sundays and was patiently waiting on 7 August for her or any other young lady to come by. But now having seen the length of Brooks Station Road and the way it bends around, to me opens up the possibility that the perpetrator passed Vanessa (either on bike or car) in the initial stages of her run/walk that day. Perhaps he then sped along and pulled off the road and parked as far down the cart path as he could – and then waited for her.

The significance of this is that it perhaps widens the net of possible perpetrators – perhaps he didn’t know her routine on a Sunday, perhaps he had never seen her running in that part of town before, and even perhaps he doesn’t live in the immediate Princeton area. Was he out hunting for victims that Sunday and came across Vanessa randomly after passing her on bike or car? If so, I still think to find the cart path, know that there was nobody around that area that would hear, and pull off the crime, he is likely familiar with the area and therefore a local. But the scenario I have outlined slightly lessens that possibility. At the least it lessens the possibility that he knows her routine and had seen her before. Therefore, this may widen the net of possible perpetrators and consequently make the case more difficult to solve.

Local enough where he has been down that road enough times to know about the cart path, but not so local that when LE went beating on doors in the neighborhood, he would have lived in one of those houses, and they would have seen cuts and scrapes etc. More he lived along the route she jogged on, or he rode his bike down that road on Sundays.
I know I am repeating myself from what I have posted in the past, but, If he's on foot, and cuts through the woods to make his escape, he will come out on Rt. 31,to the east, walking down a busy road with not much room other than the road being wide enough for a car. (no breakdown lane) If his face was cut up, I would think someone would have remembered that. The same goes for Brook Station Road, If he made his escape down that road on foot, to the west. An escape to the north, or south, puts him in someones yard.
If he pulled a car down the bike path, the grass would have been matted down, and I would think LE would have asked people that saw a car parked in the path to call the tip line.
If he pulled along the road and parked a car, he risked LE stopping and checking out the car while he was in the woods, running the licence plate number, as if it was abandoned/broke down. If the car was parked in front of a house, I don't think anyone would have thought twice about it being parked, but that spot is remote.
That's what made me think about the bicycle. He may have rode down that road a few/ many times and saw her jogging. Although rt 31, and Brook Station Road run parallel, Brook Station Road is much wider, with somewhat of a breakdown lane... much easier to ride a bike on, and much less traffic.
Rather than him waiting on the chance she would jog that day, which he may have, I'm leaning more so that he pedaled past her when she left her moms, rode ahead and lay in wait to ambush her, as he saw the opportunity, and took advantage of it.

 

[searunner]

Brilliant link - thank you.

I have believed all along that this was a lay-in-wait ambush – someone who had seen Vanessa or other girls running on Brooks Station Road on Sundays and was patiently waiting on 7 August for her or any other young lady to come by. But now having seen the length of Brooks Station Road and the way it bends around, to me opens up the possibility that the perpetrator passed Vanessa (either on bike or car) in the initial stages of her run/walk that day. Perhaps he then sped along and pulled off the road and parked as far down the cart path as he could – and then waited for her.

The significance of this is that it perhaps widens the net of possible perpetrators – perhaps he didn’t know her routine on a Sunday, perhaps he had never seen her running in that part of town before, and even perhaps he doesn’t live in the immediate Princeton area. Was he out hunting for victims that Sunday and came across Vanessa randomly after passing her on bike or car? If so, I still think to find the cart path, know that there was nobody around that area that would hear, and pull off the crime, he is likely familiar with the area and therefore a local. But the scenario I have outlined slightly lessens that possibility. At the least it lessens the possibility that he knows her routine and had seen her before. Therefore, this may widen the net of possible perpetrators and consequently make the case more difficult to solve.

I agree with your take that a local man *likely* committed this act, but it can't be *fully* ruled out that some predator from outside the area (who had some familiarity with the area) was cruising for a victim that Sunday - any female runner on BSR or on nearby roads, not necessarily targeting Vanessa. I don't think that's likely given the remoteness of Princeton, the not so good escape route situation (which Think Hard and Rocky previously described), but it's possible. It would be very risky, but everything about this crime cries that it was committed by someone who is ether into very high-risk behavior or has very low impulse control.

While it does appear more likely that the guy was on foot or a bike if this was a planned attack, I keep coming back to LE early on asking the public for any information on any suspicious situations involving cars on BSR during the time frame in question. Others posted on that topic a while back. It sounded like LE had reason to believe a car was involved, though we can't know that for sure. They may have been fishing for any information. One or more people on this thread also posted about a witness reporting that he/she saw a woman walking on BSR during the time period in question and saw a car that had passed her turning around. When the witness looked again, he/she could see the car, but not the woman. Of course, that woman might not have been Vanessa, but that sighting seems very odd. Given it was reported right away (I think, someone please correct me if I am wrong), it doesn't seem likely that this was a case of someone mixing up days.

My posts are opinion and speculation only, and may not be used for any purpose outside of this forum.

 

[searunner]

Local enough where he has been down that road enough times to know about the cart path, but not so local that when LE went beating on doors in the neighborhood, he would have lived in one of those houses, and they would have seen cuts and scrapes etc. More he lived along the route she jogged on, or he rode his bike down that road on Sundays.
I know I am repeating myself from what I have posted in the past, but, If he's on foot, and cuts through the woods to make his escape, he will come out on Rt. 31,to the east, walking down a busy road with not much room other than the road being wide enough for a car. (no breakdown lane) If his face was cut up, I would think someone would have remembered that. The same goes for Brook Station Road, If he made his escape down that road on foot, to the west. An escape to the north, or south, puts him in someones yard.
If he pulled a car down the bike path, the grass would have been matted down, and I would think LE would have asked people that saw a car parked in the path to call the tip line.
If he pulled along the road and parked a car, he risked LE stopping and checking out the car while he was in the woods, running the licence plate number, as if it was abandoned/broke down. If the car was parked in front of a house, I don't think anyone would have thought twice about it being parked, but that spot is remote.
That's what made me think about the bicycle. He may have rode down that road a few/ many times and saw her jogging. Although rt 31, and Brook Station Road run parallel, Brook Station Road is much wider, with somewhat of a breakdown lane... much easier to ride a bike on, and much less traffic.
Rather than him waiting on the chance she would jog that day, which he may have, I'm leaning more so that he pedaled past her when she left her moms, rode ahead and lay in wait to ambush her, as he saw the opportunity, and took advantage of it.

I 100% agree with you that using a bike would be the smart (I hate to use such a word in this context) thing to do if this was a guy that was specifically targeting Vanessa. It seems a less risky choice than being on foot or in a car.

However, this is also assuming we're talking about someone somewhat intelligent and who isn't cocky. One or both those things might not be the case. But, again, I agree with your take that a bike would make the most sense.

Regardless of his mode of transportation that day, if this was someone who was specifically targeting Vanessa, I think it's likely that he was able to pinpoint her timing by running or biking by her on past Sundays. Who knows, maybe that's how he came across her in the first place.

My posts are opinion and speculation only, and may not be used for any purpose outside of this forum.

 

[Kickoff61]

Just my opinion , but it appears to me this person is very calculating and knows exactly what he is doing to have this be as it is right now. It was already brazen in broad day light and now unsolved. I do believe the DA said the Killer is familiar with the area.

 

[Kickoff61]

Latest news from Channel 5 is the authorities are looking for a dark SUV, witnesses saw parked near where her body was found. Asking for people to call in.

 

[Lauranyc83]

Just heard on local news in NYC about this vehicle they are looking for.

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