MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[Kickoff61]

(BBM)

What's your thinking there? It would have to be someone pretty strong to feel confident about going into combat with an athletic young woman.

By people mentioning younger, I thought they meant teens or 20's. It just seems to me that would be easier to solve by now and this is more complex than that.

 

[Kickoff61]

It doesn't seem the person has to know the exact time of her runs, if the person is in the area and out and about or she runs by their house, he would then see her anyway?

 

[Kickoff61]

I see the SUV too. It would be nice to find out what time Google captured that image. That would weed out an employees' vehicle if it was taken say after 5 pm.
The Mountain Barn restaurant next door has an empty parking lot, but it would because it is closed on Tuesday, so that doesn't help much.

I would assume they would have checked into the employees there.

 

[Kickoff61]

Fox 25 interview clip with FBI profiler O'toole


O’Toole believes the killer is familiar with the Princeton area and is still in the area.
"What’s interesting is, they can pretty much go back to normal. And if they were married, they'd go back and have a hamburger with their wife and children," she said. “As if nothing happened. And they would explain away the scratches on their face? Absolutely. We have a way to explain it away because one of the traits and characteristics of a psychopath is that they are pathological liars. And they are remarkably good at it.”
Police have received more than 1,000 tips related to the Marcotte murder, but the killer still has not be found. If you suspect anyone or know anything that could help the investigation contact the anonymous tip line at (508) 453-7589.

 

[ForensicMass]

It doesn't seem the person has to know the exact time of her runs, if the person is in the area and out and about or she runs by their house, he would then see her anyway?

But if she was taken at the outset of the run, which I believe is what happened, she would only have passed a couple of houses.

 

[ForensicMass]

Fox 25 interview clip with FBI profiler O'toole


O’Toole believes the killer is familiar with the Princeton area and is still in the area.
"What’s interesting is, they can pretty much go back to normal. And if they were married, they'd go back and have a hamburger with their wife and children," she said. “As if nothing happened. And they would explain away the scratches on their face? Absolutely. We have a way to explain it away because one of the traits and characteristics of a psychopath is that they are pathological liars. And they are remarkably good at it.”
Police have received more than 1,000 tips related to the Marcotte murder, but the killer still has not be found. If you suspect anyone or know anything that could help the investigation contact the anonymous tip line at (508) 453-7589.

If the above profile is accurate and the killer is someone who could go and eat hamburgers with his family like nothing happened, then it seems just as likely to me that this could be someone who spotted her and impulsively decided she was a good target. If we are talking about a true psychopath here, then it would seem to me that a random chance encounter is not terribly unlikely.

Other than the obscurity of the path, can anyone hypothesize as to why the police believe the killer is familiar with the area? If this is solely based on the path, I can't rule out that Vanessa ran in there in a panic while being attacked, and that means I can't rule out that the perp was unaware of the path until he chased her in there.

 

[ForensicMass]

If we could somehow strengthen the argument that the killer knew of the path, that would seriously shrink the suspect pool. But more is needed. We have to be SURE that VM, who certainly knew of the path, didn't lead the killer in its direction.

 

[Kickoff61]

But if she was taken at the outset of the run, which I believe is what happened, she would only have passed a couple of houses.

First of all there is no evidence (known) (with so little released) that is where it happened , even if highly likely. What is known is she was found there. Secondly, anyone in the area can be walking, running, biking, hiking at the time.

 

[Mountain man]

If we could somehow strengthen the argument that the killer knew of the path, that would seriously shrink the suspect pool. But more is needed. We have to be SURE that VM, who certainly knew of the path, didn't lead the killer in its direction.

Thank you for joining the discussion. The "path" doesn't go anywhere. It is a future driveway for a house to be built there sometime in the future. Some loads of fill were brought in to raise it to the level of the road but then it just drops off. IMO I don't see her running in there as it would have trapped her. As far as the google searching you are doing the library in town has a clock on its tower.

 

[Kickoff61]

This is someone appears to have tried to cover up their DNA after what appears to be realizing their DNA was left behind after the (fight). It is not known that the cover up was planned prior , and not just a sudden decision after she fought that much. Therefore, it doesn't mean the person would necessarily have the means to cover up. If that were the case, the person (if from the area) would have to go get whatever is needed to do so and go back quickly without being noticed with scratches.

If you are saying the person planned this murder and cover up all ahead of time, (as it is known she was burned) that doesn't fit as well with spontaneously driving through town from some other place, seeing her suddenly and attacking her.

 

[Kickoff61]

Thank you for joining the discussion. The "path" doesn't go anywhere. It is a future driveway for a house to be built there sometime in the future. Some loads of fill were brought in to raise it to the level of the road but then it just drops off. IMO I don't see her running in there as it would have trapped her. As far as the google searching you are doing the library in town has a clock on its tower.

Interesting. Thank you. What you are describing, does not appear to be somewhere she would run into , to be trapped.

 

[ForensicMass]

First of all there is no evidence (known) (with so little released) that is where it happened , even if highly likely. What is known is she was found there. Secondly, anyone in the area can be walking, running, biking, hiking at the time.

Again, it's purely what I believe. And the. Eat way to get to the bottom of this is hypothesize and to focus on what is likely to have happened. Based on the timeframe, her running habits with respect to that location, and her known point of origin, nothing has been shown to be more likely in my view. Are there other possibilities? Yes, of course. But none seem to me to be more likely.

 

[Kickoff61]

Again, it's purely what I believe. And the. Eat way to get to the bottom of this is hypothesize and to focus on what is likely to have happened. Based on the timeframe, her running habits with respect to that location, and her known point of origin, nothing has been shown to be more likely in my view. Are there other possibilities? Yes, of course. But none seem to me to be more likely.

I understand. However a bit confused, too. Maybe you can explain better why you seem almost certain this is someone from out of the area?

 

[ForensicMass]

This is someone appears to have tried to cover up their DNA after what appears to be realizing their DNA was left behind after the (fight). It is not known that the cover up was planned prior , and not just a sudden decision after she fought that much. Therefore, it doesn't mean the person would necessarily have the means to cover up. If that were the case, the person (if from the area) would have to go get whatever is needed to do so and go back quickly without being noticed with scratches.

If you are saying the person planned this murder and cover up all ahead of time, (as it is known she was burned) that doesn't fit as well with spontaneously driving through town from some other place, seeing her suddenly and attacking her.

That's a good point. It is possible that he may have had a torch in the vehicle. After all it does seem like a rather unusual and unconventional means of cover-up. I don't know what percentage of crimes involve fire but I think it is very very low. Therefore the use of fire may indicate that it was the only available means that the killer could think to use.

 

[ForensicMass]

To be clear I don't believe the murder was planned a long in advance. Right now to me it seems like and I'm duction that was decided upon in the hours before, not days or weeks before.

 

[Kickoff61]

I would think law enforcement (with the help of the fire department ) As I believe it was reported, they went to the scene afterwards. ...would be able to determine the means of the cover up. Therefore, they would know better if someone would more likely to be traveling with those things , or more likely to have access to them nearby.

 

[ForensicMass]

Thank you for joining the discussion. The "path" doesn't go anywhere. It is a future driveway for a house to be built there sometime in the future. Some loads of fill were brought in to raise it to the level of the road but then it just drops off. IMO I don't see her running in there as it would have trapped her. As far as the google searching you are doing the library in town has a clock on its tower.

Happy to be here. Seems like a well informed group. We should be able to sort some of this out.
I agree that running into that path may not have been the best choice, but as I said a few posts back when I was being stung by a whole bunch of bees I ran in a panic, I was not in control of my direction, I was just trying to get away. Similarly, I had a friend who was killed in a motorcycle accident. A car turned in front of him and he slammed the brakes. He went straight into the side of an SUV. If he had chosen instead to swerve, he would have crashed into an empty grassy median. The point being that when under extreme duress, and having to make critical decisions in fractions of seconds, intellect and reason gonout the window. I still see it as a possibility. He attacks, she breaks free and just runs. Ends up down the path. If you asked her she'd tell you she didn't know why she did it, because she wouldn't know- she was panicked. Just a hypothetical of course.

 

[ForensicMass]

I understand. However a bit confused, too. Maybe you can explain better why you seem almost certain this is someone from out of the area?

I actually don't have certainty about any of this or anything I've said here. I'm merely supposing some scenarios to see how well I can defend them against the scrutiny of other perspectives. Right now, I want to thoroughly investigate whether it may have been someone who was an outsider. After this discussion I will take the opposite, local did it, stance.

 

[ForensicMass]

I would think law enforcement (with the help of the fire department ) As I believe it was reported, they went to the scene afterwards. ...would be able to determine the means of the cover up. Therefore, they would know better if someone would more likely to be traveling with those things , or more likely to have access to them nearby.

That's true and a good point. You can bet your a** that the FD knows what means were used to inflict the burns. That could help them assess whether the perp would have had access to those tools. THIS IS EXACTLY THE BITS OF INSIGHT WE NEED. Nice work.

 

[Inthedetails]

Happy to be here. Seems like a well informed group. We should be able to sort some of this out.
I agree that running into that path may not have been the best choice, but as I said a few posts back when I was being stung by a whole bunch of bees I ran in a panic, I was not in control of my direction, I was just trying to get away. Similarly, I had a friend who was killed in a motorcycle accident. A car turned in front of him and he slammed the brakes. He went straight into the side of an SUV. If he had chosen instead to swerve, he would have crashed into an empty grassy median. The point being that when under extreme duress, and having to make critical decisions in fractions of seconds, intellect and reason gonout the window. I still see it as a possibility. He attacks, she breaks free and just runs. Ends up down the path. If you asked her she'd tell you she didn't know why she did it, because she wouldn't know- she was panicked. Just a hypothetical of course.

I think it's quite plausible that she is the one who went down the path first. She would have been familiar enough with the area to know that the path didn't lead into a vast stretch of woods, but is rather close to houses, escape, etc. And in a panic, I can envision that she would go down that path to avoid a scary person or situation. I don't know if that happened, but I'm adding it to my list of possibilities. I appreciate the new idea to our collective brainstorming.

As for the perp, I very much agree this wasn't a crime that was planned in advance.

He could be local as in he lives in the area, or he could be someone "local" just in the sense that he has driven that road before. I'm also leaning toward someone who spends time outdoors, either in profession or as pastime. AND/OR, he spends time driving.

Both my dad and my husband had very good skills about finding little paths like these off roads - for hiking, picnicking, etc. And, I recall high school boyfriends who could quickly find paths like this for make-out sessions in cars. I don't think the perp had to be super familiar with the area to know about the path....or to simply be able to spot it. Paths off highways are not that uncommon, after all, even if they aren't obvious to a person not paying attention.

And, I do agree with the profiler that the perp simply blended back into his daily life. That doesn't seem too peculiar, though. I mean, what else is he supposed to do? I guess that means the perp does have a social life, not a socially-awkward person. I also get that vibe from the case, though not based on evidence - just a vibe that the perp was someone who passed as "normal."

I'm still leaning toward random crime of opportunity by someone who has been in the area before, but not necessarily a resident of that particular town.

I hope the perp is caught before striking again.