MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[liz b.]

To my knowledge they haven't ruled out it being connected or not connected and to me that says they haven't tested the DNA cause they'd say since there's articles about a serial killer. They need to look for mutual friends and anything else to count the other DNA out so we know its two different people. Then again sometimes people work in twos but the amount of stuff in common is what makes me wonder. Also the way heeft her close to the road etc screams look st me. He isn't trying to hide it he's over confident he's experienced and the lighting her on fire could have just been interrupted cause maybe he was on lunch break and saw the time and had to stop. I want to know an exact timeline of when she left and when she died and when they reported it and when they found her so we can try to calculate how much time he had for it. He wants attention though and isn't trying to hide anything and is comfortable in the area.

LE has not commented on the DNA in both cases , they have not said it matches, and not said it doesn't.

 

[liz b.]

So, if VM did buy something at the store that day wonder how she paid ? Did she have any cash on her ? A debit card ? Did her killer rob her ?

Taking her phone is also interesting. Why did he do that ? A clumsy, attempt to hide some info on her phone , or did he just want the phone ?

 

[ForensicMass]

Numerous ways. Could have been walking, hiking, running, (biking as Rocky says) when she was. Could have been on their own property knowing she regularly runs by - on certain days, doesn't have to know the exact time that day. He could see her go by, he could be out and about on property prior doing other things. We still don't know if she wasn't brought to where she was found..or also he could have seen her at the store as you say, as locals go there too. There are just too many ways he could have easily seen her on her route and even been familiar with her from the area , or running activities she is involved with or other activities.

All good possibilities. Which one is MOST LIKELY if you had to vote, IF she WAS IN FACT ATTACKED AT THAT LOCATION ON BSR?

 

[ForensicMass]

Actually the more thinking about it. It would be much harder for someone to know from out of the area and target the timing of her route **like you are talking about** unless he frequently consistently visited.

I agree with that. I don't think he had to know her route if she was taken on BSR though. He ONLY had to know where she STARTED out from. He would have a 50/50 shot at guessing direction, or 100% shot it he just cruised up and down the road until he saw her.

 

[ForensicMass]

RBBM : Is it known where she ran in NY ?

Yes, You can see the specific routes.

 

[ForensicMass]

LE has not commented on the DNA in both cases , they have not said it matches, and not said it doesn't.

I contend that If it matched, LE would have a responsibility to inform the public of possible serial.

 

[ForensicMass]

So, if VM did buy something at the store that day wonder how she paid ? Did she have any cash on her ? A debit card ? Did her killer rob her ?

Taking her phone is also interesting. Why did he do that ? A clumsy, attempt to hide some info on her phone , or did he just want the phone ?

The part about the phone is a really interesting point that I had not thought about before. if her phone was in fact stolen by the PERP why would he do that?

I understand why he would remove it from her during the attack obviously.

But to take it is to take a link to the crime

Possible reasons I can think of offhand to take it would be perps fingerprints were on it.

OR He grabbed it, put it in his pocket or threw it in the car, forgot that he had it until this was over. During his escape the phone was shut off as he passed the area of the mountain barn restaurant Just hypothetical.

I'm sure he was smart enough to realize that taking the phone would not take the call/text info from the records.

We don't know how she paid at the store.
It would certainly seem like a good idea to me to look into other people who made purchases in that timeframe Via traceable transactions, so this guy might have used cash.

 

[Rocky1]

The part about the phone is a really interesting point that I had not thought about before. if her phone was in fact stolen by the PERP why would he do that?

I understand why he would remove it from her during the attack obviously.

But to take it is to take a link to the crime

Possible reasons I can think of offhand to take it would be perps fingerprints were on it.

OR He grabbed it, put it in his pocket or threw it in the car, forgot that he had it until this was over. During his escape the phone was shut off as he passed the area of the mountain barn restaurant Just hypothetical.

I'm sure he was smart enough to realize that taking the phone would not take the call/text info from the records.

We don't know how she paid at the store.
It would certainly seem like a good idea to me to look into other people who made purchases in that timeframe Via traceable transactions, so this guy might have used cash.

You have a good point about the different times she ran, but that data is a year old. Many things can change in a year. ie. she decided to go to church on sunday mornings, or being at her management job for a year longer, and no longer new to it, she used time management more effectively etc. Not saying that is the case, but, if she was, that explains how he knew how she'd be running at the same time every time.
You mentioned weather plays into running times. I wonder what the weather was on those days you posted.

 

[Rocky1]

In regards to the phone, He may not have taken it with him. He may have thrown it The woods are dense and although LE combed it well, that may very well be what they kept coming back looking for. We know they found something a few days after, was that her phone? They also went back after the leaves had fallen, looking for something.

 

[OldSteve]

So, if VM did buy something at the store that day wonder how she paid ? Did she have any cash on her ? A debit card ? Did her killer rob her ?

Taking her phone is also interesting. Why did he do that ? A clumsy, attempt to hide some info on her phone , or did he just want the phone ?

Regarding her phone - perhaps he believed/thought she might have taken his picture with it and it was in the phone's memory. Now if she had something like a dropbox app running, any photos might have been automatically uploaded to cloud.... Something that LE could checked(?), but would need her phone or password to do so....

 

[liz b.]

Regarding her phone - perhaps he believed/thought she might have taken his picture with it and it was in the phone's memory. Now if she had something like a dropbox app running, any photos might have been automatically uploaded to cloud.... Something that LE could checked(?), but would need her phone or password to do so....

OS : I tend to think he took it for some reason like that, but jmo. Wonder what VM did the night before ? Did she go out much when she went to her mom's house ? Where would she go, and who might she have gone out with ? After all, she was just 27...worked all week at a probably demanding job. Hard to imagine that she would spend her free time staying in, but JMO.

 

[monkeypants]

I know people think she could have been brought back. And it is purely my opinion that she was NOT returned to the site. Of course I could be wrong but there is no evidence to back this up whatsoever and generically it just doesn't make any sense for this to happen in any case. Show me another case where the victim was transported back to the area of the abduction. As far as I know there is no precedence for this whatsoever. I've never heard of this, not even in Hollywood.

I really agree with you on this. It's highly improbable that she was brought back there, not impossible but very unlikely. Imo

 

[liz b.]

I contend that If it matched, LE would have a responsibility to inform the public of possible serial.

Maybe, or maybe not... one thing that made me wonder about a connection between the two women was a post on SM very early on. Supposedly VM liked to surf out at Rockaway Beach, which is about 4 1/2 miles from Howard Beach, but a very different area. It has a hip surfer vibe, along with a sketchy, edgy feel to it. I did wonder if KV ever went there...although her trip to San Tropez made me think she was more of a Hamptons person...jmo

 

[Kickoff61]

I really agree with you on this. It's highly improbable that she was brought back there, not impossible but very unlikely. Imo

Just to clarify: When people talked about her being put where she was found, it wasn't being brought 'back there', it was mentioned being brought 'to there'.

There is a difference in that.

 

[Kickoff61]

I think it is clear from the discussion on the case and length of time of the investigation, that it is not straight forward and/or clear cut. This leaves many possibilities to how this all happened. They will go on the evidence and also hopefully have that facial sketch from the DNA that was mentioned to bring the facts together to solve this.

 

[Rocky1]

Maybe, or maybe not... one thing that made me wonder about a connection between the two women was a post on SM very early on. Supposedly VM liked to surf out at Rockaway Beach, which is about 4 1/2 miles from Howard Beach, but a very different area. It has a hip surfer vibe, along with a sketchy, edgy feel to it. I did wonder if KV ever went there...although her trip to San Tropez made me think she was more of a Hamptons person...jmo

Possible, but too many things make me lean away from that thought. If they are connected. Why put all the effort into tracking her 200 miles, when he has millions of other choices, unless they are close, and personal? If that's the case, why no electronic footprint? How did he get from the bus station to her home, and where did he stalk her from once he got to her house? He would have had to spend at least one weekend there, maybe more to see her routine. Where did he stay, in the woods? If he drove from NYC in a car, where did he park it?
I am stuck on a local, with no previous involvement, and no footprint. Someone that she didn't know , but he knew of her.

 

[Dollcat]

But, FBI do not ordinarily get involved with state level homicide, unless some other issues are involved.

That's exactly what I've been saying with the Missy Bever case. FBI and ATF get involved for a reason -not just a "garden variety murder/sexual asssult".

 

[liz b.]

Hard to believe that he burned her in an attempt to erase his DNA. His DNA does not look to be in any data bases. So why on earth take the time to do that ? I think he burned her when she was still alive and conscious, but perhaps too stunned and weakened to scream. I recall reading about a case, years ago, where a victim was tortured by a perp to obtain his debit card pin number. Perp stole money, but was eventually caught...jmo

Hard to peg a motive here. because originally it was reported that VM " might have been sexually assaulted ". So it must not have been obvious. No posing of the body etc. And, if his motive was rape, why did he kill her ? She knew him ? Or had seen him before ? If his motive from the beginning was murder, WHY ? Who would want to kill this young woman ?

 

[ForensicMass]

You have a good point about the different times she ran, but that data is a year old. Many things can change in a year. ie. she decided to go to church on sunday mornings, or being at her management job for a year longer, and no longer new to it, she used time management more effectively etc. Not saying that is the case, but, if she was, that explains how he knew how she'd be running at the same time every time.
You mentioned weather plays into running times. I wonder what the weather was on those days you posted.

For The 9:30 AM run on Aug 22 almost exactly one year earlier, high that day was 82. Not as hot as the day she was killed.

But there's a window of comfort for running outside, and 82 is definitely borderline oppressive for running. The low that day was 72, much more comfortable. My guess is that was a factor in when she ran.

And I know that you say a lot can change in a year and that's certainly true. But people's running habits are a lot like their eating habits. If you hate celery and sushi this year, chances are good the same will be true in 5 years.
If you're someone who runs based on body energy and comfort level, weather, and schedule, that isn't likely to change. I've been running for about 6 years. My schedule looks a lot like hers from last year. When I look at the timing pattern of her runs, it's meaningful to me, I can understand it.

To me, the biggest possibility for any change in her historical running habit would be the crohns diagnosis. And if that had an effect, I would expect it to have slowed her down some. I would expect even less of a chance that she would run in that heat at that time. It was 88 degrees with 84 percent humidity. Awful weather for running.

One more thing THAT JUST HIT ME ABOUT THIS

Based on these weather observations and her normal distances, I seriously doubt she would have been planning one of her longer runs that day. I would say she was going for 3 slow miles, not the 6 mile loop which included BALL HILL ROAD.

 

[ForensicMass]

OS : I tend to think he took it for some reason like that, but jmo. Wonder what VM did the night before ? Did she go out much when she went to her mom's house ? Where would she go, and who might she have gone out with ? After all, she was just 27...worked all week at a probably demanding job. Hard to imagine that she would spend her free time staying in, but JMO.

After working all week then taking a bus to Princeton, I'm sure that she didn't "go out" much while there. If she was looking for social time with peers, wouldn't the city be the obvious choice? She was going to Princeton for family or health reasons (could be physical could be mental). She went out to eat with her father at one of the nicest restaurants in Worcester the night previous.