MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[Evey]

Having issues with the site loading but mean to delete my last post and post this link rather http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...s/news-story/dc1f1cc604e9e158d30bdd59aec32ae6 because I feel it gets rid kd the idea of a secret guy. I also haven't seen anything say she visited every weekend either but have seen the strangled raped and burned stuff but think this I assume eliminates the secret man unless she was a cheater. Not saying she is but that's what most likely would be the reason to.

 

[ForensicMass]

I don't think anyone is disputing that women get attacked by a perp literally daily...I think what we are saying is that in this case it doesn't seem to fit for some reason.

See I'm with you but "some "reason is just a feeling we get. That feeling might mean nothing. One commonality in these reported attacks is that the victims never imagined they would be attacked in those places and at those times

 

[Ibiz]

Huh!!

 

[ForensicMass]

I could see that...but if you were going to commit a crime in a place you'd been to for work (most likely not on weekends) .... then I'd think you'd have gone there a few times ahead of commiting the act to stake it out...you'd want to see places to get out of sight, and frequency of traffic ... I mean either that or he just got damn lucky. My point is I'm not sure you'd use just your previous knowledge to know the kind of details to execute a murder at that location. So chances are he'd perhaps been seen around?

I think workers are a possibility..but then that brings up a few questions...most work is done on week days...she was mostly home on weekends...so how did he learn about her?

If he just picked the location and not her...it's an odd time to be waiting fir a runner at peak heat on a hot summer day...and what are the chances he ends up killing a visitor instead of a local ...when both HS and college age girls would be home and running those roads all summer?

All
Good points. I could agree with that that he could have scouted the area in the days before. but he could've also just headed out that day looking for a victim and going to the places where he felt like he would have the greatest element of surprise and lowest likelihood of being spotted. I don't discount your thoughts that he might have made special trips to the area to further investigate the logistics.
Vanessa was home and ran during the week in the mapped runs. She ran both Thursday and Friday, in one instance. It has been suggested that she may have had some kind of flex schedule At work. That is certainly a possibility. At a minimum we know she came home for long weekends based on the running data.

 

[Evey]

What other two NY ones? Was there another beside Karina?

Originally I had read somewhere that the ally brueger lady lived there or had at some point but don't know where I read it but know she was killed in Michigan so it's possible I read something with wrong info but I need to look again and find it but in her case they think she knew him and I honestly don't find it likely she's part of it and think it's one person

 

[Evey]

Good article.

Another tall guy, but Milford attacker reportedly had "slim" build. This woman in Springfield says he was 240lbs. That's not a slim dude.

I thought about that also and didn't see how she knew his weight based off the attack and think since muscle weighs more than fat that maybe this weight was muscle and they slimmed down after the report.

 

[ThinkHard]

All
Good points. I could agree with that that he could have scouted the area in the days before. but he could've also just headed out that day looking for a victim and going to the places where he felt like he would have the greatest element of surprise and lowest likelihood of being spotted. I don't discount your thoughts that he might have made special trips to the area to further investigate the logistics.
Vanessa was home and ran during the week in the mapped runs. She ran both Thursday and Friday, in one instance. It has been suggested that she may have had some kind of flex schedule At work. That is certainly a possibility. At a minimum we know she came home for long weekends based on the running data.

One of the big problems I am having with relying on 16 runs over a year old in nature...is that if she made her MMR app private because she got spooked or no longer wanted people to see it ... why would she change that but not the runs themselves?

She would know that people could still see her old run data and if they wanted to use it to try to find her, could...so if she was trying to shake someone off...why would you still keep the same route or schedule knowing it's still public?

If you made the ability to track you tougher wouldn't you also change your habits so they wouldn't know your new ones? ... sort of like changing the lock instead of just locking someone out?

 

[Evey]

The man who I know personally drives around people with disabilities ... which is why his passenger was in the back seat.

Respectfully let this one go, this is a guy who tries to help people and might be slightly awkward and a women who over reacted because of the recent events of VM's death. Not anything more.

I personally don't think it's two people but just found the running off the road and person in back weird but doubt it's them but do find it interesting that joggers commented on it saying a black truck was turning and parking facing the way they'd run and multiple joggers at that. Then there's the guy who's brother told the cops he missed work the day after who gave DNA and said he was watching tb and visited a pond and while I figure it's a coincidence I'm curious if ifs the small pond I've seen said is near there.

 

[ForensicMass]

I thought about that also and didn't see how she knew his weight based off the attack and think since muscle weighs more than fat that maybe this weight was muscle and they slimmed down after the report.

240 isn't slim, even if muscle mass, at that hieght. 6' 240 and muscular is a scary strong dude no one would call slim. 6' 240 and not muscular is a big, rounder dude, again not slim.

 

[TheEntity]

Please correct me if i am wrong, but it is not know what happened to some of her clothes, correct? I had seen a post on this thread previously where the poster suggested that the killer might have some sort of fetish for dirty sneakers...especially if one of them was missing. This is certainly a possibility. I would also like to point out that the killer may have had a fetish/affinity for dirty socks. I actually had a friend that was highly aroused by dirty socks worn by women and he kept this secret very close to himself. I actually found this out through a girl that he once dated for a short period who broke up with him due to his intense attraction to dirty socks and catching him in her dirty laundry. Anyway, to make a long story short, nothing aroused this guy more than dirty socks that women worked out in. Something about the chemistry of the smell, the look, the feel. I find it possible that Vanessa's killer may have been a person with such a paraphilia that was aroused and excited about dirty sweaty socks fresh from a female joggers feet. And the fact that her feet were burned also makes me theorize that he may have been trying to burn the source of his pleasure. This is psychological. An analogy would be that a serial killer might kill women because of something a woman did to him in the past. Everytime he kills, he is killing that same woman. He is striking out at what he believes to be the "root" of his problems. Burning feet seems extra odd unless he has some sort of connection to them in his mind as being part of his "problem." These killers like to "kill" the root of their problem over and over again because of their deep hidden shame for their paraphilias. So to summarize what I am thinking here, If it is fact that the shoe and socks are missing, and law enforcement believes this to be a "lust murder", the killer may have taken the shoe and socks as trophies to use for his own personal gratification purposes. A man of this nature is very likely to have gone to local strip bars and look for sweaty socks worn by the strippers. Perhaps, the strippers have specific customers that they remember who are into such things. It may be an area worth looking into. I may be completely off on this, but if this was a "fetish" related incident/lust murder, I think such a conclusion is worth discussing.

 

[ForensicMass]

One of the big problems I am having with relying on 16 runs over a year old in nature...is that if she made her MMR app private because she got spooked or no longer wanted people to see it ... why would she change that but not the runs themselves?

She would know that people could still see her old run data and if they wanted to use it to try to find her, could...so if she was trying to shake someone off...why would you still keep the same route or schedule knowing it's still public?

If you made the ability to track you tougher wouldn't you also change your habits so they wouldn't know your new ones? ... sort of like changing the lock instead of just locking someone out?

Fair point indeed

My best answer is that when in Princeton, she didn't have many options. She could either run from the house, as she had, or drive elsewhere. But if we mean elsewhere in Princeton, (let's say someone in Princeton spooked her), she could still encounter that person. Even worse, farther from home/safety.

If someone spooked her on that 9-6-15 run. Here's a situation that I see that could have happened. She mentioned something to someone afterwards, about a weird guy, "maybe it was nothing, maybe I'm being paranoid". perhaps to family or friends. Mom asks about the tracking of runs and asks if it's really a good idea to tell everyone where you are (since her generation thinks this kind of thing is just blatantly stupid) suggests she turn off the tracking.

In general, I just see SOMETHING happening to trigger a conversation about turning off the tracking, or something happening triggering her to consider that public tracking might not be good. What was it? And why was t seemingly just after a run in rural Princeton on BSR? Peaks my interest.

 

[liz b.]

Fair point indeed

My best answer is that when in Princeton, she didn't have many options. She could either run from the house, as she had, or drive elsewhere. But if we mean elsewhere in Princeton, (let's say someone in Princeton spooked her), she could still encounter that person. Even worse, farther from home/safety.

If someone spooked her on that 9-6-15 run. Here's a situation that I see that could have happened. She mentioned something to someone afterwards, about a weird guy, "maybe it was nothing, maybe I'm being paranoid". perhaps to family or friends. Mom asks about the tracking of runs and asks if it's really a good idea to tell everyone where you are (since her generation thinks this kind of thing is just blatantly stupid) suggests she turn off the tracking.

In general, I just see SOMETHING happening to trigger a conversation about turning off the tracking, or something happening triggering her to consider that public tracking might not be good. What was it? And why was t seemingly just after a run in rural Princeton on BSR? Peaks my interest.

Can people leave each other messages on that running app ? It is strange that she changed the setting. But if she was that worried she could have just stopped running in Princeton altogether. Or found some local running buddies. Merely re-setting that app , how does that realty help her ? Unless she knew for a fact that someone else regularly viewed that app. Puzzling...

 

[Evey]

I could see that...but if you were going to commit a crime in a place you'd been to for work (most likely not on weekends) .... then I'd think you'd have gone there a few times ahead of commiting the act to stake it out...you'd want to see places to get out of sight, and frequency of traffic ... I mean either that or he just got damn lucky. My point is I'm not sure you'd use just your previous knowledge to know the kind of details to execute a murder at that location. So chances are he'd perhaps been seen around?

I think workers are a possibility..but then that brings up a few questions...most work is done on week days...she was mostly home on weekends...so how did he learn about her?

If he just picked the location and not her...it's an odd time to be waiting fir a runner at peak heat on a hot summer day...and what are the chances he ends up killing a visitor instead of a local ...when both HS and college age girls would be home and running those roads all summer?

I would say a worker could have seen her when she lived there and ran into her a few times. But to me it would need to be a worker who could take a break to do this or who has a job that if he vanishes or whatever then nobody would know. Unlike people delivering mail who would be on a schedule. Also since my phone is being wacky in reply to someone saying the bf was an ex, I had read that also but read more that he wasn't a serious bf so I feel it's a casual thing especially if she's a busy person at work. If it was an ex I think her family would correct a reporter if asked if they've even been asked that is. Also to me it's very odd that her and KV were killed so close to their parents home. I mean this could be someone who gets odd on the thrill of being somewhere public yet hidden and close to their families homes knowing they don't know what he's doing to them so very close by. Which that itself is sinister even if it's two different killers I believe they knew exactly how close to the homes they were and either get off on it or realize it's their only shot at it.

 

[liz b.]

Fair point indeed

My best answer is that when in Princeton, she didn't have many options. She could either run from the house, as she had, or drive elsewhere. But if we mean elsewhere in Princeton, (let's say someone in Princeton spooked her), she could still encounter that person. Even worse, farther from home/safety.

If someone spooked her on that 9-6-15 run. Here's a situation that I see that could have happened. She mentioned something to someone afterwards, about a weird guy, "maybe it was nothing, maybe I'm being paranoid". perhaps to family or friends. Mom asks about the tracking of runs and asks if it's really a good idea to tell everyone where you are (since her generation thinks this kind of thing is just blatantly stupid) suggests she turn off the tracking.

In general, I just see SOMETHING happening to trigger a conversation about turning off the tracking, or something happening triggering her to consider that public tracking might not be good. What was it? And why was t seemingly just after a run in rural Princeton on BSR? Peaks my interest.

Could LE find the ISP's of anyone who viewed V's app site on a regular basis ?

 

[Evey]

So I didn't see this in the KV thread but does anyone know if the same running app was searched for her? I ask purely because if they had a route that matches up then they could have both been spotted there. I do believe something spooked her and likely like was said her mom probably advised she change the setting but she clearly took interest in self defense classes or maybe even took some we don't know about and I'm curious what caused it. But maybe she got a creepy message or text the day her run was cut short that made her worry someone was watching or following her around town but she assumed after so long that she was safe to run there again.

 

[ForensicMass]

Can people leave each other messages on that running app ? It is strange that she changed the setting. But if she was that worried she could have just stopped running in Princeton altogether. Or found some local running buddies. Merely re-setting that app , how does that realty help her ? Unless she knew for a fact that someone else regularly viewed that app. Puzzling...

It's not really a messaging app, you can add friends and track their runs, though.

ReGuarding why she would change the settings, and not running routes, perhaps whatever spooked her wasn't so severe, but rather was just something out of the ordinary. Perhaps she never really thought about the danger of being tracked until she had her first uncomfortable experience while running. I'm sure she really loved running in Princeton. It's a beautiful place with nice terrain and fresh air. Being suspicious of someone one time might not be enough to deter her from running in her favorite place, but it might be enough to make her think about her habits. Maybe change her privacy settings.
My guess is it's difficult to find a running group in Princeton, though in sure one exists.

I have always believed that she is a person that runs when she feels good and when her body tells her to run, with weather also being a consideration. Joining a running group would put her on someone else's schedule and starting out from anywhere else other than her driveway would certainly add an inconvenience. I think perhaps she got spooked. Had she been attacked at that time I agree she would change her actual running patterns. But if she was just suspicious of someone one time, that probably would not be enough to stop her from running in her favorite running places.

 

[ForensicMass]

Could LE find the ISP's of anyone who viewed V's app site on a regular basis ?

That I am not sure of. I can ask my google buddy. There probably is some kind of fingerprint there. I would imagine. They're probably checking me out right now since I've searches her routes in there like 50 times.

 

[Evey]

Can people leave each other messages on that running app ? It is strange that she changed the setting. But if she was that worried she could have just stopped running in Princeton altogether. Or found some local running buddies. Merely re-setting that app , how does that realty help her ? Unless she knew for a fact that someone else regularly viewed that app. Puzzling...

I want to know that also. But with all the fitness stuff like the Fitbit etc why is a tech savvy girl using that app and what's the point of it honestly? I get wanting to track your times I just feel there's other ways more common for that but maybe I'm wrong. I just never heard of this until this case or know anyone who uses it. I mean it must be for her own records but why make it private. Maybe just a weird car passed more than once giving her the creeps and causing her to turn back.

 

[ThinkHard]

So I didn't see this in the KV thread but does anyone know if the same running app was searched for her? I ask purely because if they had a route that matches up then they could have both been spotted there. I do believe something spooked her and likely like was said her mom probably advised she change the setting but she clearly took interest in self defense classes or maybe even took some we don't know about and I'm curious what caused it. But maybe she got a creepy message or text the day her run was cut short that made her worry someone was watching or following her around town but she assumed after so long that she was safe to run there again.

What if she did have a creepy work stalker that put tracking on her phone for just a second...he would likely take the time to learn her schedule and pick and even scout his location....seems intersting to me the time of her last documented run was almost exactly a year prior (within a month)...what if she spotted her coworker stalker in her tiny town and it totally creeped her out...but not enough where she actually thought he was creepy enough to be in Princeton cause he was following her, so felt paranoid even mentioning it to others...but still change her settings anyway....just a thought

 

[Aleph]

What if it was someone she knew from high school? This person could have seen her running, pulled over and initiated a conversation. They could have gone down the cart path looking for a shady place to sit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk