MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[ThinkHard]

I visited the crime scene. The ground surface is blanketed with approximately 4 inches of heavy wet snow so I could not get as good a look at the ground as I would have liked. I did take away some interesting things from my visit though. First off the circular looking dark markings on the dead vertical tree, upon closer examination we're not burn marks at all but were just a black mold or mildew on the wood. Therefore I do not believe a torch was a part of this crime since the elevated circular marks on the tree were the main reason I thought a torch might be involved.

Probably the most interesting thing that I took away from the visit was something that had not been mentioned at all on this thread. That being that the cart path where she was found is not straight. The path starts at about 90 degrees to BSR and goes straight back for about 75', then jogs slightly to the right. The location where she was apparently found is not visible to anyone passing on BSR, even if looking directly down the path. In fact, it's the first point along the path that isn't visible. So she was taken just around this corner.
My friend who accompanied me posed a great question while we were at the site. He asked why was she brought 130 or so feet down the path when the areas to either side of the path, down in the gully, which is 8-10' below the grade of the road, would have provided much better cover and would have been easier/closer. I spoke with local LE, and though no new specifics were given, I didn't get the impression that there is anyone in particular under the microscope. I also asked an employee of the market if she had been there that day, to which he replied that he did not believe so, that LE checked their camera footage (I noted about 4 cameras in the small shop). Which leads me to another question. If LE initially say they "believed she had been at the store" where did they pull that from? The most logical explanation would seem to be that her family said she had gone there earlier that day-perhaps she borrowed the car to go to the "store", and her family assumed that was where she went. Maybe she went to a different store. Or maybe she went somewhere else altogether. I have more thoughts but this post is getting dense.

Thanks for going there. I have passed it many times but cannot bring myself to stop and walk into the woods. It's not that I am afraid, I just feel like emotionally it would be overwhelming. But I so appreciate you going and making this important observation for us.

Btw I was surprised without the foliage how deep the gullies were on each side of the path.....in the summer when there is foliage this is not noticeable at all.

So maybe the person knew this spot, but not like a neighbor would know this spot. Maybe he didn't realize how deep those gullies were either or perhaps they were so dense with foliage it wasn't an option. I do wonder though why if he realized how deep they were he wouldn't have at least left her body down there instead but he didn't.

Anyone who attacked her on foot and was running through the woods though I would think would know about the drop offs on either side of the path.


Second part is.....ok so how did he get her 130 ft into an area not seen? Did he carry her? Drag her? Did she walk on her own accord.

If she never went to the store and said she did.....I'm thinking that leads more weight perhaps to what I've been saying a long time....I think the secret to her death is in the aspects of her life we don't know.

I think she did intentiontionaly meet up with someone in some capacity....I don't think they were planning to kill her...I think somehow the conversation turned aggressive and in the struggle perhaps he broke her neck or strangled her....perhaps even her death was an accidental consequence of a physical altercation and not the intent.

Then he realizes what he has done.....he doesn't call police because then he'd have to explain why he was there with her in the first place .... Maybe it's a secret....so he panics and stages it and gets out as quick as he can.

Just a though.

One last thing....someone had mentioned a car wouldn't have been backed up on that path because we would see matted grass.....but they are looking for an SUV which sits higher off the grown and would be far less likely to Matt the grass.

 

[ThinkHard]

Just wanted to add....

I'm not sure how many cameras Mnt side market had before this event....it might not have been 4....some could have been added since this crime though. Did you happen to ask?

Regarding other stores....I think the next nearest ones are in Holden and Rutland....but if you were grabbing a drink I don't know why you'd go farther then you have too. Those would both be gas stations that I am thinking of likely with cameras.

 

[ForensicMass]

Thank you, ForensicsMass.

As for where the fire pit was located in the woods, our case maps are in conflict.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=42.43784915492762,-71.88814492572556&z=19

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=42.43822222437088,-71.88817508545839&z=19

* I apologize for not being to give proper credit but these maps are not my work.

Both maps display the cart path to the fire pit as being at a sharp diagonal line almost parallel to BSR but gets deeper away from BSR as it progresses toward Conner Lane. Killer could have taken her deeper into the woods without being in close proximity to the other homes but as far as we know, he stopped at the first hidden spot around a corner. Correct?

Was the spotted tree and fire pit within the cart path or off to one side of it? TIA

The first of these maps is correct. The site is not directly along Connor Lane extension but along the cart path which comes off of BSR at 90° and she was approximately 130 feet into the woods on the path but off to the side and not at its center. The cross on the map looks slightly closer to the road than the actual site. The cart path goes straight in and then at a distance of about 75 feet begins to curve to the right

 

[Evey]

Who is "they?" Why should her COD continue to be mentioned? Results of her autopsy is in reports and will be presented in a court should her killer ever be caught and prosecuted.

Various media news articles that I read towards the start of the case. I've read a few here and there since but not many mention it

 

[ForensicMass]

Just wanted to add....

I'm not sure how many cameras Mnt side market had before this event....it might not have been 4....some could have been added since this crime though. Did you happen to ask?

Regarding other stores....I think the next nearest ones are in Holden and Rutland....but if you were grabbing a drink I don't know why you'd go farther then you have too. Those would both be gas stations that I am thinking of likely with cameras.

The clerk at Mountainside market insinuated that all of the cameras he was pointing out where present at the time of the crime and that footage from them was turned over. I had never noticed a single camera in there before but when he pointed them out they were fairly well disguised

 

[Evey]

Thanks for going there. I have passed it many times but cannot bring myself to stop and walk into the woods. It's not that I am afraid, I just feel like emotionally it would be overwhelming. But I so appreciate you going and making this important observation for us.

Btw I was surprised without the foliage how deep the gullies were on each side of the path.....in the summer when there is foliage this is not noticeable at all.

So maybe the person knew this spot, but not like a neighbor would know this spot. Maybe he didn't realize how deep those gullies were either or perhaps they were so dense with foliage it wasn't an option. I do wonder though why if he realized how deep they were he wouldn't have at least left her body down there instead but he didn't.

Anyone who attacked her on foot and was running through the woods though I would think would know about the drop offs on either side of the path.


Second part is.....ok so how did he get her 130 ft into an area not seen? Did he carry her? Drag her? Did she walk on her own accord.

If she never went to the store and said she did.....I'm thinking that leads more weight perhaps to what I've been saying a long time....I think the secret to her death is in the aspects of her life we don't know.

I think she did intentiontionaly meet up with someone in some capacity....I don't think they were planning to kill her...I think somehow the conversation turned aggressive and in the struggle perhaps he broke her neck or strangled her....perhaps even her death was an accidental consequence of a physical altercation and not the intent.

Then he realizes what he has done.....he doesn't call police because then he'd have to explain why he was there with her in the first place .... Maybe it's a secret....so he panics and stages it and gets out as quick as he can.

Just a though.

One last thing....someone had mentioned a car wouldn't have been backed up on that path because we would see matted grass.....but they are looking for an SUV which sits higher off the grown and would be far less likely to Matt the grass.

I agree about the grass since I don't think he sat and dragged a body. If it was a secret meeting I think the dude lives nearby and perhaps it's their spot. Her bf was in Australia so perhaps a young guy living near that was home from college?

 

[ForensicMass]

The cart path and Connors lane are actually two seperate things....for a while there was confusion. Both paths start in the same place....meaning both from that lip on BSR.....Connors lane runs diagonal and at an angle along BSR and eventually away from it....you can see a bunch of Connors land from the road as its lined with stone walls.

The cart path goes straight back into the woods.

What FM is saying that path looks straight back from the road....but actually curves just past where you think it ends causing a blind spot....and I believe FM is saying her body was found in this blind spot....meaning someone driving by, even if they did look straight down the path that day wouldn't have seen anyone on it.

Yes I think hard that is just what I mean. thank you for clarifying

 

[Kickoff61]

It still seems to me he made a fire to get rid of evidence. The photos show there was a fire at the dirt location or as BW said, fire pit.

Are the gullies moist or swampy? He may have thought the dirt location was the best spot for the fire, if the fire was his focus and also out of site as FM has described, around the corner a bit.

 

[Kickoff61]

Thank you Forensic Mass for clarifying that.

 

[Kickoff61]

There are many ways he could have known of her or met her before, however, I don't think secret relationship meetings would be so secret as to not find a connection in the investigation by now or a friend or co-worker knowing, etc. JMO

 

[Kickoff61]

Yes I think hard that is just what I mean. thank you for clarifying

(Apart from tire impressions) In general: When you saw it, did you think it was possible a vehicle could drive all the way in to the location around the corner to be hidden as well?

 

[Rocky1]

I think maybe after LE was told that her family got a ping off the Mountain Barn and went there and asked employees if anyone had seen her there, somehow when that information was passed on, LE went to the Mountain Side because, like half of us here, got the two confused and went there by mistake at first to follow up.
Maybe there was plenty to drink at her Moms house, and she didn't go anywhere at all.
I mentioned the grass being matted down on the path if an SUV was backed in there like Bob Ward suggested there could have been. I wasn't thinking it would be so much from a low undercarriage, but from the tires. If the grass was 2 feet tall, there would have been two tracks matted down, and LE would have picked up on that quick. I would think they would have combed either side of the road as well, looking for tire tracks, in the dirt areas too, to gather evidence of the tire tread. That would have had to be done in the beginning, before the area was lined with State Police cruisers parked along the side of the road.

 

[Rocky1]

(Apart from tire impressions) In general: When you saw it, did you think it was possible a vehicle could drive all the way in to the location around the corner to be hidden as well?

I can answer that.
I'm not sure about now, but there was a log across the path, and that was before the bend, along with taller bushes so, no.

 

[Madeleine74]

Various media news articles that I read towards the start of the case. I've read a few here and there since but not many mention it

If COD hasn't been disclosed then there's nothing to mention.

 

[Kickoff61]

I can answer that.
I'm not sure about now, but there was a log across the path, and that was before the bend, along with taller bushes so, no.

Thanks , Rocky1

 

[Kickoff61]

I think maybe after LE was told that her family got a ping off the Mountain Barn and went there and asked employees if anyone had seen her there, somehow when that information was passed on, LE went to the Mountain Side because, like half of us here, got the two confused and went there by mistake at first to follow up.
Maybe there was plenty to drink at her Moms house, and she didn't go anywhere at all.
I mentioned the grass being matted down on the path if an SUV was backed in there like Bob Ward suggested there could have been. I wasn't thinking it would be so much from a low undercarriage, but from the tires. If the grass was 2 feet tall, there would have been two tracks matted down, and LE would have picked up on that quick. I would think they would have combed either side of the road as well, looking for tire tracks, in the dirt areas too, to gather evidence of the tire tread. That would have had to be done in the beginning, before the area was lined with State Police cruisers parked along the side of the road.

That makes sense.

 

[Kickoff61]

Rocky1 - Is there water in the gully you mentioned?

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't think VM knew her killer. I think there's a monster loose in that general area or who has ties to that area and she was in the absolute wrong place at the wrong time.

The statement made by someone (LE? someone else?) that "it doesn't make sense, she was a beautiful girl" is odd to me. It's not like psychopath killers only go after ugly people to kill. Murder never makes sense except to the psycho who is doing the murders. And even some of them have no insight into why they kill. She was alone, vulnerable, in a spot where she wasn't in sight of lots of people all at once and she became prey for this monster, who had the advantage in every way.

 

[Kickoff61]

I don't think VM knew her killer. I think there's a monster loose in that general area or who has ties to that area and she was in the absolute wrong place at the wrong time.

The statement made by someone (LE? someone else?) that "it doesn't make sense, she was a beautiful girl" is odd to me. It's not like psychopath killers only go after ugly people to kill. Murder never makes sense except to the psycho who is doing the murders. And even some of them have no insight into why they kill. She was alone, vulnerable, in a spot where she wasn't in sight of lots of people all at once and she became prey for this monster, who had the advantage in every way.

Yes, and they need to catch this monster.

 

[Rocky1]

Rocky1 - Is there water in the gully you mentioned?

I can't answer that because I didn't notice the gully until the fall when the foliage had dropped, and it had rained since the summer, so even if there was, that wouldn't mean there was in August. It was an exceptionally dry Summer.
You made a good point about why he would have stayed on the path though. If there was water in the gully, that could have been the reason.