MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[Rocky1]

Ok, that sounds plausible. Is there ANYTHING at all that makes one escape route more likely than the other ? North vs south? Assuming the route begins at the scene and that the mountain barn is along the route.

I am trying to reason the most likely place where he may have disposed of the phone. As I think this would have occurred soon after fleeing. It may be hidden there still, maybe within a mile or two of the crime scene.

To me, the only thing that makes one escape route more likely than the other is where he wanted to go, and we just don't know that yet.
I don't think he left those woods with that phone at all. I think he threw it in the gully and LE may/may not have found it later.

 

[ForensicMass]

Still wondering why someone that just killed someone, would want anything to do with that phone. That's like having an ELT strapped to him. If he had it in his car, he didn't forget it, and if she was in the car and he didn't realize she left it there (even though if she's in jogging shorts it would have been in her hand), then I see a different place where her body would have been found, because I don't see him bringing her back there.
I say that ping came from the phone that was in the woods where she was killed, and due to it being shut off, the area of the ping was expanded. That's more logical.

Maybe more logical on the face of it but theres a problem with that theory- The iPhone locator is more accurate than that. The phone, even when giving a "general" locAtion is typically accurate to 300 feet. The linear distance from where she was found to mountain Barn is approximately 5,000 feet. It wouldn't have located near the Barn from that area, I'm not fairly sure of this after discussing the app with my Google friend.

Agree her phone was either in her hand or strapped to her arm. When he attacked, first order of business would be to take it away from her so she couldn't call 911. He pocketed it, or tossed it in car, continued the attack, was distracted by her struggle and his attempt to remove his DNA, trhen his escape from the scene, then remembers he still has he phone. That seems reasonable to me. But as I said, I think he shuts it off and disposed of it very soon. I think it could be there somwhere, maybe in a wooded area along the road near mountain barn.

 

[Rocky1]

Truthfully, I doubt he passed the mountain barn at all. I think if he wanted to go north, or east on 62, he would have went north on BSR.
If he wanted to go south on 31, I'd say he went south on BSR to Ball Hill Rd.
Why back track? I think it's fair to say he knew the area.

 

[ForensicMass]

If there were ear buds, he knew she had phone.

He knew she had one regardless of the ear buds- exercise clothes don't provide any place to conceal it. And you can't run with a phone in your pocket it's extremely annoying.

 

[ForensicMass]

Truthfully, I doubt he passed the mountain barn at all. I think if he wanted to go north, or east on 62, he would have went north on BSR.
If he wanted to go south on 31, I'd say he went south on BSR to Ball Hill Rd.
Why back track? I think it's fair to say he knew the area.

It's a very fair question. That's why I'm asking us to investigate the point. Because the iPhone app, if the source of the ping, is too accurate to confuse her location and mountain barn.

 

[Rocky1]

Maybe more logical on the face of it but theres a problem with that theory- The iPhone locator is more accurate than that. The phone, even when giving a "general" locAtion is typically accurate to 300 feet. The linear distance from where she was found to mountain Barn is approximately 5,000 feet. It wouldn't have located near the Barn from that area, I'm not fairly sure of this after discussing the app with my Google friend.

Agree her phone was either in her hand or strapped to her arm. When he attacked, first order of business would be to take it away from her so she couldn't call 911. He pocketed it, or tossed it in car, continued the attack, was distracted by her struggle and his attempt to remove his DNA, trhen his escape from the scene, then remembers he still has he phone. That seems reasonable to me. But as I said, I think he shuts it off and disposed of it very soon. I think it could be there somwhere, maybe in a wooded area along the road near mountain barn.

If he threw the phone out of his window, LE found it using find my phone. I'm going to get some data brb.

 

[ForensicMass]

If he threw the phone out of his window, LE found it using find my phone. I'm going to get some data brb.

He could have shut it off (untraceable at this point) drove a couple miles and pitched it.

 

[Kickoff61]

Why not shut it off immediately at the attack?

 

[Kickoff61]

It is hard to imagine he would leave the phone going while he is setting a fire to do the rest of what he did.

 

[Rocky1]

Maybe more logical on the face of it but theres a problem with that theory- The iPhone locator is more accurate than that. The phone, even when giving a "general" locAtion is typically accurate to 300 feet. The linear distance from where she was found to mountain Barn is approximately 5,000 feet. It wouldn't have located near the Barn from that area, I'm not fairly sure of this after discussing the app with my Google friend.

Agree her phone was either in her hand or strapped to her arm. When he attacked, first order of business would be to take it away from her so she couldn't call 911. He pocketed it, or tossed it in car, continued the attack, was distracted by her struggle and his attempt to remove his DNA, trhen his escape from the scene, then remembers he still has he phone. That seems reasonable to me. But as I said, I think he shuts it off and disposed of it very soon. I think it could be there somwhere, maybe in a wooded area along the road near mountain barn.

I can't see a scale of miles, but scroll down and look at "Johns Iphone" and tell me if that looks like 300 ft to you.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204233

 

[ForensicMass]

Why not shut it off immediately at the attack?

Of course ideally he would have done this. But, he just strangled someone, got his DNA on her, cars are passing his car along the road, he is panicked, burning the DNA off in a quick measure. The phone was no longer the most pressing matter after he took it from her and she couldn't use it to call for help. It was a loose end relative to the other tasks at hand like getting rid of DNA and getting himself away from there. Then, once he was away from he immediate scene, three minutes later, he realizes or has time to deal with the phone, and shuts it off. Speculative.

 

[Kickoff61]

There isn't any. It's speculative only. But seems MOST LIKELY based on her KNOWN point of origin, publicly KNOWN tips which identify someone of her description on BSR and not elsewhere (yea maybe there are other tips, but we don't know em), he KNOWN fairly narrow 2-hour timeframe, her KNOWN typical running pace, the KNOWN site where she ended up. All seem to me to point to an altercation early in her run. There may be a few anomalous things that point toward another scenario, but the totality of known evidence seem to me to support the early encounter.

Ok . Thank you. I didn't think so. Just speculation.

 

[Kickoff61]

Of course ideally he would have done this. But, he just strangled someone, got his DNA on her, cars are passing his car along the road, he is panicked, burning the DNA off in a quick measure. The phone was no longer the most pressing matter after he took it from her and she couldn't use it to call for help. It was a loose end relative to the other tasks at hand like getting rid of DNA and getting himself away from there. Then, once he was away from he immediate scene, three minutes later, he realizes or has time to deal with the phone, and shuts it off. Speculative.

Sounds like you are pretty sure. Ok.

 

[Rocky1]

He could have shut it off (untraceable at this point) drove a couple miles and pitched it.

I believe he shut it off, yes . Still trackable, and that's why the range was extended so wide, because the Wi-Fi went out.

 

[ForensicMass]

It is hard to imagine he would leave the phone going while he is setting a fire to do the rest of what he did.

Why? That likely only took minutes. What would happen if he left it on? It would ring? No one would hear it, he didn't have to answer it. I don't see he big risk of having it on those extra few minutes. I think far more important in his mind at the time was eliminating the DNA, and I don't think there was mush going through his mind beyond that at that exact point. It was paramount. If he wasn't worried about that intensely, there would be no burning. Speculation/opinion

 

[Rocky1]

Why not shut it off immediately at the attack?

I think he did, and if that ping wasn't from her Mom trying to find her, then I am going to say that at 2:25 was the exact time he shut it off, and that's why it pinged.

 

[Kickoff61]

I think that's one of the first things he did, and if that ping wasn't from her Mom trying to find her, then I am going to say that at 2:25 was the exact time he shut it off, and that's why it pinged.

If that is one of the first things he did, that would put him approaching her around 2:25, shutting it off, conflicting with attacking her at beginning of the run.

 

[Rocky1]

If that is one of the first things he did, that would put him approaching her around 2:25, shutting it off, conflicting with attacking her at beginning of the run.

I edited the comment. Not the first thing he did. I do think she was attacked at the beginning, but as I said, if that ping wasn't her Mom, then I'm betting it was when he shut it off

 

[ForensicMass]

I believe he shut it off, yes . Still trackable, and that's why the range was extended so wide, because the Wi-Fi went out.

No, not trackable if powered off- gives last known location before power down only.

 

[Rocky1]

I edited the comment. Not the first thing he did. I do think she was attacked at the beginning, but as I said, if that ping wasn't her Mom, then I'm betting it was when he shut it off

Just to add, I don't think he was in a rush to leave until after he set the fire, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was there for at least an hour.
I think this guy is a sexual sadist, enjoys inflicting pain, and took his time.