MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[Kickoff61]

For instance:

When I speculate she may know someone through tutoring or running races, etc, I am going on the fact she is an avid runner and involved in these things.

When I speculate it may be someone nearby, I am going on the fact that she ran a route through the neighborhood regularly to be seen or met with, the fact the path location is very hidden with foliage and grass therefore difficult for an outsider to know of it so well and the fact the person went to the extent of a fire to possibly cover up DNA when not in the system. Speculating a local would be more apt. to take that much of a risk that day, than a person the authorities would have to find in the whole state or country matching DNA left behind.

I don't understand why some theories are speculated without facts?

 

[Kickoff61]

Rocky1 - I can understand your speculation of the bike theory based on facts of the scene, the gully, the guardrail, the get away from that particular area, the fact of wounds being on perpetrator as reported assumption and possible helmet hiding them, the possible items taken from the scene that 'may be' missing, and something on bike to carry them, the dogs unable to track the bike, etc. There are facts there to go on.

 

[Kickoff61]

I cannot tie any facts known with any secret relationship. I cannot tie any facts known that she led the perpetrator down the path herself, picking that thick brush to run into or a failed abduction attempt not just considered 'failed' with the driver taking off.

I still want to know how any vehicle could attempt an abduction at precise timing of guardrail ending, without first coming upon her, then slowly blatantly following behind her until that exact point of entrance.

 

[Kickoff61]

Maybe it is easier to understand people's speculation if they list facts known in the case or from the photos of the scene that lead them to the speculation?

 

[ThinkHard]

I meant I thought you were trying to complicate a scenario that seemed straight forward in my opinion.

 

[ThinkHard]

If she hung out with him with other friends, because they saw each other out and he ran into her in town...why would there be some extensive digital foot print? There wouldn't be in such a case.

Again I didn't say she was inconstant contact with this person having heart to hearts and planning regular meetings.

 

[ThinkHard]

That is exactly my point. What facts known lead to speculation of secret relationship?

I think it's the facts that are unknown that lead me there. The things that do not make sense, that do not add up with other scenarios.

The 2:25 ping at the mountain barn, the errand she ran but no one saw her, the fact no one heard her scream....the vehicle sightings...the fact every thing would have had to have been timed just too conveniently. So many of these things are explained by the fact in my eyes that she willing put herself in someone else's presence who she did not have a reason to fear for her life's with.

And if she didn't suspect him....I think it might explain why no one else has yet either.

 

[Rocky1]

Rocky1 - I can understand your speculation of the bike theory based on facts of the scene, the gully, the guardrail, the get away from that particular area, the fact of wounds being on perpetrator as reported assumption and possible helmet hiding them, the possible items taken from the scene that 'may be' missing, and something on bike to carry them, the dogs unable to track the bike, etc. There are facts there to go on.

True, but as of now, it's just a theory. I may be way off, but so far I can't think of a reason that it couldn't have happened that way, with the exception of an SUV being reported, but I am not convinced that even LE thinks it was involved if they are still doing the DNA dragnet.
I think it's good to discuss any idea, no matter what, and as I said before I am open minded.

 

[ThinkHard]

And when I say she could have known someone via friend of a friend it's based on the fact she grew up there and was a young girl who in all likelyhood probably had friends who she hung out with, who had friends.

It's not just shooting in the dark. That too is taking an aspect of what we know of her life and applying it to who she could have come into contact with.

And if it was a friend of a friend that would also make him in all likelyhood local and increase there lileyhood of knowing the area.

So respectfully KickOff but my theories are based on facts that are known too.

 

[Rocky1]

If she hung out with him with other friends, because they saw each other out and he ran into her in town...why would there be some extensive digital foot print? There wouldn't be in such a case.

Again I didn't say she was inconstant contact with this person having heart to hearts and planning regular meetings.

If she hung out with him with other friends then how could nobody else know about it?

 

[Rocky1]

If she hung out with him with other friends, because they saw each other out and he ran into her in town...why would there be some extensive digital foot print? There wouldn't be in such a case.

Again I didn't say she was inconstant contact with this person having heart to hearts and planning regular meetings.

There wouldn't have to be an extensive footprint. One phone call within the past month would be all it would take.

 

[ThinkHard]

I didn't say no one else knew about it. I spoke of this very aspect in the theory I proposed.

People could be well aware of the fact she was with this other person in a group of friends at some point.

But what are they going to go do start suspecting every friend of a friend that VM has ever had?

If he's a sociopath and smooth and charming...people knowing he was at the same bar with her earlier in the summer or even at an after party...is not going to be thinking he killed her. I'm sure he was not the only male who had hung out with her in social gathering over the summer....so unless charming socio starts dropping red flags...why would anyone start dropping his name?

 

[Rocky1]

I think it's the facts that are unknown that lead me there. The things that do not make sense, that do not add up with other scenarios.

The 2:25 ping at the mountain barn, the errand she ran but no one saw her, the fact no one heard her scream....the vehicle sightings...the fact every thing would have had to have been timed just too conveniently. So many of these things are explained by the fact in my eyes that she willing put herself in someone else's presence who she did not have a reason to fear for her life's with.

And if she didn't suspect him....I think it might explain why no one else has yet either.

The 2:25 ping could have been nothing more that her phone was shut off. I posted a link a while back explaining that when a phone is shut off, it extends the area quite a bit rather than zeros in on it when using find my phone. Her phone could have very easily been at the crime scene, and shut off.
Timing could be on target if someone knew her routine and the fact that she went jogging/running before she went back to NY.
If her killer knew who she was, but she didn't know him, that would explain her not having a reason to fear her life, and wouldn't suspect him, and why nobody else has either.

 

[ThinkHard]

i disagree. I don't see it that way at all.

For one even if there was a phone call who's to say he made it from his cell phone?

It's also possible they never once spoke on the phone. It could have been a one night hang out thing....and then he maybe he heard through the grapevine she knew he was married and was pissed or maybe he didn't.

Maybe he just happened to be driving by and saw her and pulled over to talk.

I think it's entirely possible there is a connection like this with no foot print.

If he's married he'd hardly be calling up some other girl or taking phone calls from some other girl.

Also I think part of the issue here is that maybe what you are seeing in a potential connection via this is quite different from how I am seeing it.

I'm not talking about some long term lie. Im talking about something that might have happened one time, maybe too if you think along the lines he could have known her Fromm before he was married.

Also maybe he is local and a friend of a friend, but somewhere btw 5-10 years older then her so outside her peer group and immediate LE radar. Which could also explain why he hasn't fallen under suspicion...his connection to her is loose.

 

[ThinkHard]

It doesn't explain how he got her so far in the woods with no one hearing screaming though.

I know you have suggested gen could have jumped out and clicked her...but that gully is deep...it would be difficult to spring out out, attack someone, and drag or carry them 130 ft over then over a log....

I don't see that being a plan. I think it would have been way to risky. Too far too drag her and too much of a chance of a car coming by during the course of this.

If he doesn't clock her then there is a struggle right there...also increasing visibility.

It just doesn't seem like the best plan...so maybe he got super lucky.

But the way my brain is pieces all of these things together I see the explanation of no screams and no one seeing a struggle...is that she was dead when gen brought her there or she walked to that spot willingly.

Again this is just my opinion on what I feel
Like the facts tell us.

 

[Rocky1]

I didn't say no one else knew about it. I spoke of this very aspect in the theory I proposed.

People could be well aware of the fact she was with this other person in a group of friends at some point.

But what are they going to go do start suspecting every friend of a friend that VM has ever had?

If he's a sociopath and smooth and charming...people knowing he was at the same bar with her earlier in the summer or even at an after party...is not going to be thinking he killed her. I'm sure he was not the only male who had hung out with her in social gathering over the summer....so unless charming socio starts dropping red flags...why would anyone start dropping his name?

This is snipped from your scenario.

• I also think it's possible to hang out and just go places were you won't be seen, and I think it's possible to hang out with someone and not tell anyone about it, and I certainly don't think he would have ever given her any gifts
  
  So, how is it possible to hang and go places with friends, and not be seen by anyone?​
  
  
  

 

[ThinkHard]

The 2:25 ping could have been nothing more that her phone was shut off. I posted a link a while back explaining that when a phone is shut off, it extends the area quite a bit rather than zeros in on it when using find my phone. Her phone could have very easily been at the crime scene, and shut off.
Timing could be on target if someone knew her routine and the fact that she went jogging/running before she went back to NY.
If her killer knew who she was, but she didn't know him, that would explain her not having a reason to fear her life, and wouldn't suspect him, and why nobody else has either.

Also you are right, we don't know what the ping means. Could it mean it was with her body at the crime scene and just shut off....certainly it's AN option. But it doesn't make it the only one.

 

[ThinkHard]

This is snipped from your scenario.

• I also think it's possible to hang out and just go places were you won't be seen, and I think it's possible to hang out with someone and not tell anyone about it, and I certainly don't think he would have ever given her any gifts
  
  So, how is it possible to hang and go places with friends, and not be seen by anyone?​
  
  
  
  
  

Yes I did write that....followed in the next paragraph by

"However more realistically I don't think it would even have to be something like a secret long term affair. This could be a friend of a friend, maybe someone she hadn't seen in a while, had run into over the summer might out with friends in Worcester. "

You had asked a question and I answered it, then I went on to explain what I thought was more likely here though.

Like I said, it's possible to go places and. Not be seen but I don't think if she knew him that's the scenario here.

 

[Rocky1]

I didn't say no one else knew about it. I spoke of this very aspect in the theory I proposed.

People could be well aware of the fact she was with this other person in a group of friends at some point.

But what are they going to go do start suspecting every friend of a friend that VM has ever had?

If he's a sociopath and smooth and charming...people knowing he was at the same bar with her earlier in the summer or even at an after party...is not going to be thinking he killed her. I'm sure he was not the only male who had hung out with her in social gathering over the summer....so unless charming socio starts dropping red flags...why would anyone start dropping his name?

Maybe not every friend, but every person that she was romantically involved with, yes.

 

[ThinkHard]

You could be out with your friends and you run into their other friends while you are out. And maybe go to someone's place for an after party all together ...that's how you hang out with friends of friends.

Hanging out one on one and not going to places where you run into people you know is how you go out and don't get seen.

Two different things.

But again I don't think she was running around meeting up with him secretly.