Found Deceased MA - Zachary Marr, 22, Boston, 13 Feb 2016 #1

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Ya know. i'm starting to think he was not bounced. I got a few posts deleted by the mods, but I'll tread carefully. Here's what i think went down.

He leaves the bar because he gets a call from someone at around 1:20.

Said person tells Zach to meet him over at Boston Public Market.

Zach waits for a few minutes and at around 1:41 or so gets a call from said individual telling him that he's on the wrong side and that he needs to walk down Hanover to the other side of BPM. We know at this point (based on statements from Amanda) that his phone is still on. Zach is shown crossing into the picture in front of BPM on Hanover at 1:44AM. This goes back to me thinking that he was not bounced and not blitzed to the point of falling into the harbor since he's able to walk a straight line to the other side of the market in a few minutes.

Zach IMO hops in the car of the person and is either taken against his will or willingly goes.

NOW i won't speculate on the reason of the call or the meeting but we can all assume what that might have been.

NOW the optimist in me hopes and prays that for some reason the person that picked up Zach was taking him and him or herself somewhere far away from Massachusetts to have a do-over. Odds of course are slim but why not hold out at least a little hope.


IMO, I think you are right, and also think his posture/actions in both of those photos support your theory.

ETA: The only thing that gives me pause is his text saying, IIRC, "let's leave". Unless that was before he called someone else?
 
Ok, so there was actually another corner there so from where he was standing, he couldn't have seen down the street where the entrance to the parking garage. See my attached map I made before you posted this. You are right.

Just my opinion, but man , that just looks too far away, if I had just gotten bounced, alone cold dont know where I am , I would def togo to other side the street (stay away from bouncer) but...............
 
The picture of Zach standing is from INSIDE Boston Public Market, which is located at 100 Hanover St. diagonally across from the Bell in Hand at the corner of Union and Hanover.
Looking out from the market at Zach's back, he is facing the Bell in Hand. East is to his left toward the Surface Artery. Zach is looking to his right (west) toward Congress St.

attachment.php

"A surveillance image provided to the Marr family by Boston Public Market, which is in the vicinity of the Bell in Hand Tavern."

The next image is from inside the Boston Public Market and shows Zach walking east toward the Surface Artery.
attachment.php

"A surveillance image provided to the Marr family by Boston Public Market, which is in the vicinity of the Bell in Hand Tavern."


http://www.necn.com/news/new-englan...ary-Marr-Harvard-Massachusetts-368845361.html

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1...2!3m1!1s0x89e3708f5c43a885:0x149c19d0571898aa


soooo...what we are really saying here is the Tavern released none of its own video. That smells .............and not good....has nothing to do with the bar responsiities , in fact it makes much more of a case that he was, indeed, bounced and refused entry depite his not having his coat.

I think if one rang up an attorney and said last night one of my employees bounced a kid without his jacket, refused reentry , and he has v anished off the face of the earth what should I do . I think we all are pretty confident of the advice recieved.

It also makes the statement he would not have been denied reentry sound like a flat out lie.

IMO an establishment would not release any of their OWN video in this sitution has an agenda....just mo!
 
Amanda was right...Zach wasn't really blitzed..he walked down the street in a few minutes to get to the other side of Boston Public Market. That second picture now looks to me like he is about to get in someone's car.
attachment.php



I am not being snarky just verifing are you saying his choces make sense or being funny. Again no snark here!! it could be read one of two ways --you know what I mean!!
 
I am not being snarky just verifing are you saying his choces make sense or being funny. Again no snark here!! it could be read one of two ways --you know what I mean!!
No worries my friend. Im being serious. I think Zach was covering up whatever it was that he was doing so not to upset his cousins. He leaves at 1:20. Figures it will be a quick transaction. Doesnt worry about his coat since he thinks he can probably make it back inside. I do not think he was tossed from the bar. If he made it from one end of the Boston Public Market to the other in less than four minutes he had to have had some senses to him.
 
have a do-over.

What do ya mean?

Its interesting that after viewing your great pics I came away more convinced that he bounced but then the way you worded it ; if ya think about he did annonce that he was going to step out for smoke, so possibly it makes sense that they just stop letting people in a bit before closing so wait staff can start settling tabs etc

And the guy on FB who sounded as if he has gone there stated that two of the doors are exit only, which would make sense in terms of staffing. Other two fire code stuff??

Ya know. i'm starting to think he was not bounced. I got a few posts deleted by the mods, but I'll tread carefully. Here's what i think went down.

He leaves the bar because he gets a call from someone at around 1:20.

Said person tells Zach to meet him over at Boston Public Market.

Zach waits for a few minutes and at around 1:41 or so gets a call from said individual telling him that he's on the wrong side and that he needs to walk down Hanover to the other side of BPM. We know at this point (based on statements from Amanda) that his phone is still on. Zach is shown crossing into the picture in front of BPM on Hanover at 1:44AM. This goes back to me thinking that he was not bounced and not blitzed to the point of falling into the harbor since he's able to walk a straight line to the other side of the market in a few minutes.

Zach IMO hops in the car of the person and is either taken against his will or willingly goes.

NOW i won't speculate on the reason of the call or the meeting but we can all assume what that might have been.

NOW the optimist in me hopes and prays that for some reason the person that picked up Zach was taking him and him or herself somewhere far away from Massachusetts to have a do-over. Odds of course are slim but why not hold out at least a little hope.
 
soooo...what we are really saying here is the Tavern released none of its own video. That smells .............and not good....has nothing to do with the bar responsiities , in fact it makes much more of a case that he was, indeed, bounced and refused entry depite his not having his coat.

I think if one rang up an attorney and said last night one of my employees bounced a kid without his jacket, refused reentry , and he has v anished off the face of the earth what should I do . I think we all are pretty confident of the advice recieved.

It also makes the statement he would not have been denied reentry sound like a flat out lie.

IMO an establishment would not release any of their OWN video in this sitution has an agenda....just mo!

Maybe the bar didn't release their own video to YOU. I don't know that they did not release it to Law Enforcement. Do you?
The market, according to the links I provided, released their video to the Marr family.

The bar has no obligation to the public.

MOO
 
have a do-over.

What do ya mean?

Its interesting that after viewing your great pics I came away more convinced that he bounced but then the way you worded it ; if ya think about he did annonce that he was going to step out for smoke, so possibly it makes sense that they just stop letting people in a bit before closing so wait staff can start settling tabs etc

do over like start a new life. i put thay probabilitiy at say .0001% but that would obviously be the best outcome.

yeah i dont even think it matters the whole whether he got bounced or not. The whole positioning in the two pictures tells me the whole story.
 
do over like start a new life. i put thay probabilitiy at say .0001% but that would obviously be the best outcome.

yeah i dont even think it matters the whole whether he got bounced or not. The whole positioning in the two pictures tells me the whole story.

good notion in terms of just loosing his grandmother---nothing left to tie me here-- that would be pretty mean to do to your family !!! maybe he plans on calling if that is what happened
 
She said Zach is clean-cut. He appeared stressed, but happy.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/02/14/boston-police-missing-man-zachary-marr/
 
Maybe the bar didn't release their own video to YOU. I don't know that they did not release it to Law Enforcement. Do you?
The market, according to the links I provided, released their video to the Marr family.

The bar has no obligation to the public.

MOO

The bar has no obligation to the public.

Resectfully, I disagree. If nothing "happened" that had a role in what has transpired, why not release their video. Clear up what was going on.

How would management "know" he was not denied reentry. I am assuming a bouncer does not report to management when they bounce a patron on a Friday night.

In addition imo , I would tend to think management would be aware of potential problems down the road. I would think more likely than not , that if they quesioned the bouncers , the bouncers tendancy would be , in light of the fact that a patron had vanished from their establishement, to deny.

I wound also bet that bouncers in that area would be totally aware of the lawsuit in thier neighborhood recently. Not only would they not want to get terminated, they sure as heck dont want to have to go to court, depostions and all the stuff. (See below)

I would also hope in hindsight, that if that is what occured, without his jacket, and he is found frozen to death somewhere it would be pretty clear that the bar is going to have , at least, some cival liability.

Making a specfic mention of that (not denied reentry), IMO indicates an awareness that they could have some liability.

Property owners owe the highest degree of care to invitees to make sure they are safe from dangers on their property. - See more at: http://realestate.findlaw.com/ownin...y-to-prevent-injury.html#sthash.RMcGjJKh.dpuf

Restaurant owners in the Finanial area, I would assume had heightened awareness of the potential of being sued.

Receently in that very area the exact same thing happened and they were sued.

In February 2014, Eric Munsell was ousted from the Market bar and lounge after a bouncer saw him stumbling and bumping into other customers. Although it was below freezing outside, Munsell was not given a chance to retrieve his coat or tell his friends he was leaving, the lawsuit says.

The bouncer did not tell Munsell’s friends he had been kicked out or call him a cab, it alleges.
hope the suit encourages bars to take more care ejecting intoxicated customers.


There is really no logical reason tho, if not bounced, not go get your coat, when it is minus 9 out with 16 mile an hour winds- knowing full well you have to walk when the bar closes to somewhere.

If we go with cog hypothsis the text telling cousin they wont let me in would make sense.

But if he did not leave to "start over" what would the intent be to text cousin stating that they refused him entry?

His "lets leave" does sound like an intent to rejoin them. It also makes sense that he did feel the need to advise them of that so they dont worry when he is gone for a time peroid longer than a cigg.

In thinking about the start over (grandm a comes into the mix ) IMO

It did also sound as if stuff was looking up. He was in school full time (IMO a looking forward to something actvity) working full time.

That also IMO complicates the suicide notion. A hallmark of suicde is the notion of hoplessness, nothing in the future, while going to college indacates IMo the opposite

It is very confusing sitution with so many confusing variables

At this point its like MAL 370

http://www.suicide.org/hopelessness-a-dangerous-warning-sign.html

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...or-sues-bar/SaxUUj931fBrMQDKOpVXaN/story.html
 
IMO, I think you are right, and also think his posture/actions in both of those photos support your theory.

ETA: The only thing that gives me pause is his text saying, IIRC, "let's leave". Unless that was before he called someone else?

You are right--that is the one part of
the story that doesnt quite jive. Here is quote i found:

""He sent me a Snapchat saying they're not letting me back in let's leave," said Amanda, "I texted him and said where are you, and he said out front and that was at 1:41 a.m."

If Zach was in the middle of some sort of transaction of sorts--would he send that message? I dont know. Maybe things are taking longer than he expects and he sends it just to appease his cousin, knowing it will take them a while to get out of the bar and he can finish up whatever it is that he's doing.
 
Maybe the bar didn't release their own video to YOU. I don't know that they did not release it to Law Enforcement. Do you?
The market, according to the links I provided, released their video to the Marr family.

The bar has no obligation to the public.

MOO

Maybe there were other identifiable bar customers on the Bell footage? Could be they would not release, to the public, clear images of other patrons for liability reasons?

I would not want to be identifiable, standing there, the way "the public", tends to jump to conclusions!
 
You are right--that is the one part of
the story that doesnt quite jive. Here is quote i found:

""He sent me a Snapchat saying they're not letting me back in let's leave," said Amanda, "I texted him and said where are you, and he said out front and that was at 1:41 a.m."

If Zach was in the middle of some sort of transaction of sorts--would he send that message? I dont know. Maybe things are taking longer than he expects and he sends it just to appease his cousin, knowing it will take them a while to get out of the bar and he can finish up whatever it is that he's doing.

Maybe "whatever" was taking a little longer than planned, and he knew he wouldn't be able to get back in, but figured he could be out front by 2am, or shortly there after, and catch them outside, or as they were walking to the car... but didn't he make the calls /snaps, right as he was headed...wherever?
 
Maybe "whatever" was taking a little longer than planned, and he knew he wouldn't be able to get back in, but figured he could be out front by 2am, or shortly there after, and catch them outside, or as they were walking to the car... but didn't he make the calls /snaps, right as he was headed...wherever?
This makes sense. Maybe he's waiting for whoever to show up and doesnt think they are coming so he snapchats Amanda telling her that he is outside and ready to go. Then the person or persons he is looking for call him and tell him to walk down to the other end. As hes walking down the street he texts amanda saying that hes out front thinking as you mention that it will only take a few minutes and he can meet them over at bell in hand outside.
 
Maybe "whatever" was taking a little longer than planned, and he knew he wouldn't be able to get back in, but figured he could be out front by 2am, or shortly there after, and catch them outside, or as they were walking to the car... but didn't he make the calls /snaps, right as he was headed...wherever?

Did they go there in a car - am I confsuing train with ride from Harvard.
 
This makes sense. Maybe he's waiting for whoever to show up and doesnt think they are coming so he snapchats Amanda telling her that he is outside and ready to go. Then the person or persons he is looking for call him and tell him to walk down to the other end. As hes walking down the street he texts amanda saying that hes out front thinking as you mention that it will only take a few minutes and he can meet them over at bell in hand outside.

That senero you laid out, (so very well!), was my very first though when I heard about this situation.

Also thought, the cousins/friends waited till morning, to see if they would hear from him, because if he had met up with someone and hit an, "After Party", might have been an unwelcome scene to have LE show up at the party... I'mean sure they wouldnt have been thrilled that he wasn't communicating, but might have thought, "He'll sleep it off and surely call in the morning".
 
Did they go there in a car - am I confsuing train with ride from Harvard.

Amanda lived in Boston, southie, she picked up Zach at the train station ... I am thinking, she drove to the club.
 
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