Found Deceased MA - Zachary Marr, 22, Boston, 13 Feb 2016 #1

[ZhaZhaHa]

I think the video shows he left at 1:20 to go out for a call/smoke.

And I'm going to take a pass on the statement that he tried to get back in but wasn't allowed. I don't know why that belief won't die.

The only reason I hold on to that one is because somebody mentioned there are a few entrances. He might have gone to another entrance and it wouldn't open? Or one without a camera so we cannot see for sure what happened there?

 

[bdo13]

has no one else noticed what looks like a leg in the picture where his back is turned to the camera? on the left double door, top window, right side there looks to be a leg in black pants. I think the time stamp on that photo was 144... that means someone was there 6 minutes before his cousins came out. I'd attach the picture but I don't know how.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

I do not doubt the cousins story. It would not surprise me either way about re-entrance. I could easily see the bouncers saying no, and I could see Zachary erroneously thinking he could not get back inside.

He might have been lost too, while looking for somewhere to keep warm. So if he got lost, where would he go next? Did he just head towards water to relieve himself, and have an accident? It seems like these stories always end that way.

For me, it is hard to believe that some perpetrator is hanging around outside in the severe temps. However, I could buy that angle if a perpetrator was inside a warm car. I need to know where Zachary was planning to go afterwards, home or stay at the cousins house. Would he seek transportation home or to a relatives house, to get out of the cold? Did he have $$$ with him, or was his wallet in his coat?

He doesn't know the town. Who would he be buying drugs off of?

I would guess he would go to a bus/subway station if there were one. If they all came in that way it would get him out of the cold and he's think he would see his group there shortly anyway. But you'd think he would message his cousin this. His phone could have run out of battery though.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

has no one else noticed what looks like a leg in the picture where his back is turned to the camera? on the left double door, top window, right side there looks to be a leg in black pants. I think the time stamp on that photo was 144... that means someone was there 6 minutes before his cousins came out. I'd attach the picture but I don't know how.

Hmm, I see what you are seeing. But if you google street view the market, you can see there are light and traffic posts that taper this way as well. You can also see the concrete pillar directly in front of Zach.

 

[JeannaT]

well let's be honest. do you think the bar would say that one of their bouncers kicked him out and wouldn't let him in? there was allready a similar story in boston where a young kid was denied re-entry and the bar was sued after he ended up in the water. if you owned a bar, wouldn't you try to make it seem like Zach was disoriented as opposed to the bouncer just being a jerk and not allowing him re-entry? As i noted before Bell in Hand has a little bit of a bad rap regarding its bouncers---plus there are a few entries to the bar. Zach may have tried to re-enter where there was no camera potentially.

If I were Bell in Hand and my bartender/bouncer had denied him re-entry, it seems very unlikely I'd present LE and the family with a videotape showing he didn't attempt re-entry. It's no longer a he-said, he-said thing when you have videotape. The stills that were released are quite clear of him. I don't know where all this will end, and I would like to see the video they submitted showing no attempt at re-entry.

Had the Bell in Hand merely said um naah, we didn't deny him re-entry, that's one thing and would be questionable. To provide a video that apparently satisfied the family is another thing.

 

[JeannaT]

The only reason I hold on to that one is because somebody mentioned there are a few entrances. He might have gone to another entrance and it wouldn't open? Or one without a camera so we cannot see for sure what happened there?

I see what you're saying, unless he was on camera the whole time until he went down the street toward that subway entrance thing.

 

[JeannaT]

I'm going to say this, and I really, really don't mean it as a criticism of the family. It's one of those sad mistakes. If my cousin were outside in 0 degree weather and snapchatted they won't let me back in, I would rise from my chair and be at the door in less than 15 seconds by the clock. These are people very, very familiar with the dangers of cold like Texans are very familiar with the dangers of heat. I don't know why it took so very long for them to settle up a bill, mill around, and finally get to the door at least 10 minutes after he said he was standing out with no coat in the zero degree weather.

This is something I'm sure they'll hurt about forever if he isn't somehow miraculously found alive and well.

 

[altissima]

Boston area resident and occasional Uber user here, chiming in (very late!) on the Uber angle. While Zach could have summoned a ride with Uber using just his phone, I personally doubt that happened. Uber is only available in some larger cities; living in Harvard, Zach would have no use for it. Taking Uber from Boston to Harvard would be crazy expensive. It's possible he downloaded the Uber app and set it up after he left the Bell, but I doubt that too. It's not trivial to do so, as you need to link a payment account to use it. Could be done of course, but IMHO not likely in the freezing cold after several drinks. So I think the Uber possibility is sadly unlikely...unless Zach was in the habit of coming into Boston for fun and staying at his cousin's place in Southie, then I could see it. Has anyone read an indication that he did something like this often?


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[Esse]

I'm going to say this, and I really, really don't mean it as a criticism of the family. It's one of those sad mistakes. If my cousin were outside in 0 degree weather and snapchatted they won't let me back in, I would rise from my chair and be at the door in less than 15 seconds by the clock. These are people very, very familiar with the dangers of cold like Texans are very familiar with the dangers of heat. I don't know why it took so very long for them to settle up a bill, mill around, and finally get to the door at least 10 minutes after he said he was standing out with no coat in the zero degree weather.

This is something I'm sure they'll hurt about forever if he isn't somehow miraculously found alive and well.

You make a great point but don't forget that Zach texted "let's leave"-

So they get their coats. If the bar wasn't letting him back in, what else could they do? Argue with the bouncer about it?

They never dreamed it would turn out like it did and without more information we have to go by what the family stated.

 

[JeannaT]

You make a great point but don't forget that Zach texted "let's leave"-

So they get their coats. If the bar wasn't letting him back in, what else could they do? Argue with the bouncer about it?

They never dreamed it would turn out like it did and without more information we have to go by what the family stated.

No, I realize they never dreamed it would turn out like this.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

I'm going to say this, and I really, really don't mean it as a criticism of the family. It's one of those sad mistakes. If my cousin were outside in 0 degree weather and snapchatted they won't let me back in, I would rise from my chair and be at the door in less than 15 seconds by the clock. These are people very, very familiar with the dangers of cold like Texans are very familiar with the dangers of heat. I don't know why it took so very long for them to settle up a bill, mill around, and finally get to the door at least 10 minutes after he said he was standing out with no coat in the zero degree weather.

This is something I'm sure they'll hurt about forever if he isn't somehow miraculously found alive and well.

I thought the same thing, but trying to give benefit of the doubt, I thought of what might take those extra 10 minutes...maybe they had to settle their tab? Maybe they had to get their coats? A Friday night in a really popular bar at closing would be pretty packed. It could have just taken some time.

 

[Vail]

After looking at the area on Google maps and walking from the bar to the water using street view, I don't believe at all that he is in the water, at least not the "he wandered off to pee and fell in" scenario. He would have to walk half a mile across two busy streets, then wind through a few blocks of parking lots to make his way to the harborwalk, which is lined with huge chains, and well lit.(I don't think there is any chance he is in the river at all) There are several trees and alleys to urinate in between the bar and there. If he walked there, it was with the intent to jump off the long wharf or similar IMO, unless part of the story is omitted and they all went there after leaving the bar.

Do we know how long calls to Zach went to voice mail? Had he ended up in water the phone would appear "powered off" so LE should know when it went dead and if it was due to battery or being switched off.

One scenario I can see is Zach waiting for them outside across the street out of the wind, they leave and don't see him, he is looking away and doesn't see them emerge before they decide to walk around the corner or head to the car, and because no one called out for him, he is left waiting while they assume he took off and left him there. How long did they wait?

As usual, ping data would tell a lot of this story and they have not told us anything about that yet.

 

[dub]

One scenario I can see is Zach waiting for them outside across the street out of the wind, they leave and don't see him, he is looking away and doesn't see them emerge before they decide to walk around the corner or head to the car, and because no one called out for him, he is left waiting while they assume he took off and left him there. How long did they wait?

I think something like that is a possibility for sure. Or, if the bar has multiple entrances/exits (which seemingly it does), they misunderstood which one he was waiting by and left out the other one.

And I agree with you, I think him accidentally ending up in the water is nearly impossible in this case.

 

[carbuff]

A few general comments, in no particular order:

There are parts of Boston where it's easier to fall in the water than it is to stay out of it, and because it's a harbor town, the general trend of many streets is toward the water, and many areas that are busy during the day are deserted at night.

The harborwalk is well lit but it can be slick, and those chains are no protection at all. They call your attention to the edge, but if you slip, you could go under. And it would be trivial to throw yourself over. Pee over? Well, do-able, but if he tried to do it that night, he would most likely have endangered his future progeny.

A while back, there was a discussion of how many people, mostly young men, have drowned around New England this year. The serial killer on the loose isn't a human gang, it's suicide, mostly by young people under pressure, and for some reason the water seems to be a favorite choice. There have been three or four that I know of in addition to the ones that have made the press.

Another killer that's making the rounds: heroin and other opiods. As well as the usual danger of overdose, many batches sold in the area have been contaminated. Several people a day were dying at the peak last fall.

Boston is generally a safe city to be out wandering around in at any hour, but incidents do happen. And I am guessing that by the time he left the Public Market, he would have been glad to accept a warm ride from Satan himself, even if he was fully sober.

 

[KYPastTracker]

has no one else noticed what looks like a leg in the picture where his back is turned to the camera? on the left double door, top window, right side there looks to be a leg in black pants. I think the time stamp on that photo was 144... that means someone was there 6 minutes before his cousins came out. I'd attach the picture but I don't know how.

yes, I see that. I actually see two other people in that photo. I see one that looks like two legs. Or at least it appears to be.

 

[Trilogy]

Hi there!


New to the group, but I’ve been following this case since Saturday - it’s captured my attention. Often you hear of missing persons and right or wrong, your interest/concern is fleeting. This one is different, because I have children that age, and I’m somewhat familiar with the area in question.


Two things come immediately to mind for me. The first is the bar. Looking at it in Google Maps street view and ‘walking’ around the block, this place is huge! It’s an odd, triangular shaped building with what looks to be numerous entrances with signs over the doors. It wasn’t clear to me, looking at it in day view, which door was the actual “front” entrance. Late at night, hurrying to get outside, in the cold, (under the influence?), it would be easy, I think to lose your bearings and forget which door you came out. Is it possible he went back to a locked, unmonitored door that he thought was an entrance, and to him, that was, “I can’t get back in”? The Market entryway across the street is well lit, and maybe out of the wind. After you finished a smoke, it’s a logical place to stand while making a call.


Second, and apologies if I missed someone else pointing it out, but there are at least three other people standing in front of the storefront with Zach, in the photo taken through the front entrance. Perhaps he struck up a conversation with one or more of them? What is it about that spot that it functions as a gathering place that late at night? Was he trying to stay in a well lit area because he was apprehensive about something?


I just don’t see super inebriated here, and I don’t think he was booted. He’d be damned cold, certainly, and that might explain his demeanor. Under the influence of something other than alcohol, maybe, knowingly or unknowingly? Also, the long (and it is a hike) rambling trek to water doesn’t seem logical, either, just to take a leak – I never realized guys had such a fascination with peeing in the water!


My theory - somebody came along in a vehicle, saw he was cold, vulnerable, and offered him a ride or a chance to warm up, which he took. To where? A ride back to the train/subway station? God only knows.

 

[carbuff]

yes, I see that. I actually see two other people in that photo.

On a Saturday night while the colleges are all in session, the entire city was probably crawling with drunken students and young professionals. The issue with cameras might be that there are so many people around that they might not be able to pick him out of the crowd.

 

[Safeguard]

If I were Bell in Hand and my bartender/bouncer had denied him re-entry, it seems very unlikely I'd present LE and the family with a videotape showing he didn't attempt re-entry. It's no longer a he-said, he-said thing when you have videotape. The stills that were released are quite clear of him. I don't know where all this will end, and I would like to see the video they submitted showing no attempt at re-entry.

Had the Bell in Hand merely said um naah, we didn't deny him re-entry, that's one thing and would be questionable. To provide a video that apparently satisfied the family is another thing.

There are a number of ways he could have been barred, off camera. .
You are entitled to your opinion.
*Backs away slowly*

 

[rotary_dial]

As a guy, I don't have a fascination nor am I drawn to pee in water. A bush, tree, fence, lightpost, dumpster, pretty much anything will suffice. If I can't find a restroom, I go for the nearest place out of sight.

The main concern is to relieve myself, the secondary and almost as important concern is to avoid someone who may arrest me for public urination.



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[Safeguard]

As a guy, I don't have a fascination nor am I drawn to pee in water. A bush, tree, fence, lightpost, dumpster, pretty much anything will suffice. If I can't find a restroom, I go for the nearest place out of sight.

The main concern is to relieve myself, the secondary and almost as important concern is to avoid someone who may arrest me for public urination.



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All those, impromptu urinals, you site, make perfect sense to me. (With the possible exception of the uhhh..."Lamppost"?).

They afford a measure of privacy, (at least at night). Standing on the edge of a waterway, in the open, seems an unusual choice to me, (sister to seven brothers).