Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 11

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  • #501
I do not mean to judge you. However, I do think it is out of place, unproductive, and boring on a sleuthing forum to spend so much time and so many posts expressing anger about any one aspect of the case rather than sleuthing that case and I have said so. But to me it is also important to actually discuss the case on its merits and not just repeatedly waste posts and time on a noncase issue. It gets really old to see it get to that point and every little while it seems someone tries to work us 'round again to the same tired subject.

At times in the height of the emotions people were feeling, it seemed that one single aspect of the case completely overwhelmed all other parts of the case, including finding the missing little girl and I have have commented about that but I have endeavoured to use restraint. I came to websleuths to sleuth and I was seeing less and less of that being done on some threads and more and more posts about awful parents etc. I thought we had the parkinglot and jury room for posts about noncase solving issues. Do the mods allow certain things to go on in some threads?- Yes. But is doing all that you are allowed to do always the best thing to do? In my opinion the answer is no.

I am happy to see that more people have begun to actually discuss the case on its merits than before. That is a good thing and much much more interesting to me. Remember it was also I who theorized all sorts of ways that the parents might possibly be guilty of this crime as long as it was part of an open minded discussion of the case on its merits.

Again I do not mean to judge people. I was raised to not kick a family when they were down and if a family member went missing or was in the hospital we just did not say bad things about them until they were found or were brought back home. Perhaps my feelings about that side of things has found its way into some of my posts but I am not trying to be mean to people or find some reason to look down on others.

If at the beginning of a case people start posting that "turtles are green and green is evil", over and over and then they taper off but still try to post the same thing every once in awhile and then you post a post about a simple case point and the reponse you get is "turtles are green and green is evil" you might tend to post a less than favorable response. Even if the saying were 100% true it does nothing to help the case move along and ignores the post point you just made. Think you might begin posting, after awhile, that "turtles are green and green is evil" is not something to continue to occupy our time with, that perhaps we might want to move along to actual case points a bit more? Do you think you might begin to feel that the thread is overly obsessed with "turtles are green and green is evil"?



The 1st def. for alleged is "declared or stated to be as described; asserted".

I say alleged because I was not there to see it happen. It was reported in a news article. I say alleged partly because there appears to be some controvery in news reports as to how long the gap in supervision was and even some controvesry as to whether it was an appropriate gap of time.
I am not trying to be argumentative when I say "alleged" I am trying to be accurate and careful not to jump to conclusions. You may notice that news people also often use the term in news reports on various cases.

It was alleged that the parents never checked on the children at all that night. And it was alleged that the parents did check on the children in a certain time interval that evening. And it was alleged that the original time interval was later changed. The 1st def. for alleged is "declared or stated to be as described; asserted". What do we know? We know some things were stated declared or stated to be as described and we know that a child is missing and that her parents were alleged to not have been there when it happened. Were they really not there when it happened? Is it a fact or only something stated or declared to be as described?


I want to try to communicate this delicately and not meanly.

I care about the little missing girl. I care about seeing the case solved. I care about learning from the outcome of the case, such things as how guilty or innocent parents sometimes act.

If you and/or others want to start a drive to have the children taken away from the parents forever I won't say a word. I do not propose it nor oppose it. It isn't my business.
This also is repetition of previous posts by posters, sometimes new posters come aboard and instead of reading the whole threads you sometimes have to repeat or guide them to links where they will find the information they are asking for.
Everyone is entitled to post their opinion. We all care about finding out what happened to Madelaine. How many times have people asked for the timeline of the night Madelaine disappeared, there are numerous things that are repeated and I think it is possibly because we have nothing new to post, so everyone tells their theory and thats when we get people rehashing the same stories.
 
  • #502
Not that I expect the blood samples to be Madeleine's, but there's a lot riding on other evidence- blood stains and corpse detection in the vehicles, trace evidence from the apartment and also Murat's home. I can't even imagine what would happen if someone tampered with it.
Not sticking up for parents here but I do question the doubts about the Brits work on this case. Wasn't it said to have been their dogs and forensics specialists that uncovered the new evidence? So why then send those people in just to waste that time and scuttle the results at the lab level? I know that once in awhile politics plays a part in some cases but I think the Brits just seem to be better than that, especially when their nation has little to lose if the parents are infact proven guilty of a crime. If the parents are guilty no one will think that all Brits are like the parents. People in power did not get there by being the most stupid person in the room so why would they risk their reputation and office over one relatively unimportant couple?
 
  • #503
Code:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/17271

From the article.

But a police source said the story was untrue. And Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa stressed his conviction that allegations against the McCanns were unfounded. He also said it was possible the child may never be found.


He added: “Up until now, they are not suspects. If we have any suspicions we are compelled by law to charge them in order to preserve their rights.” The couple, who have remained dignified throughout the barrage of hurtful rumours, have now begun to fight back.
 
  • #504
I honestly don't know how to feel about the McCanns' neglect. I think some kind of consequences are in order, but if Madeleine were to show up tomorrow would I propose to keep her from her parents? No!

I am concerned because if they turn up evidence against the McCanns, there are some fairly powerful people in the UK who will have egg on their faces. There is such a thing as corrupt officials. I guess I just feel uneasy about the delay.
 
  • #505
I honestly don't know how to feel about the McCanns' neglect. I think some kind of consequences are in order, but if Madeleine were to show up tomorrow would I propose to keep her from her parents? No!
I think thats why a lot of people are talking in a negative way about the McCanns, they have committed a crime and are not being punished for it, they should be charged, and then maybe when that bit of justice has been done we can all move on, but punishment must be given for a wrongdoing. It just looks like they are going to get away with not being charged for a crime which they committed.
 
  • #506
http://www.skyviewcafe.com/index.php

I’ve been reading theories at the Mirror UK forum today and, as expected, many posters think Madeleine died accidentally in the apartment and her parents covered up the crime. If you check out the picture in #481, you’ll notice there is a rocky outcrop along the coastline at the top of the page, giving natural cover. Because of Portugal’s southern position in Europe and the fact that the Algarve beaches face south, dusk is very short- 28 minutes. Another interesting piece of trivia is that the sun set on May 3 at 8:25 pm, twilight ended at 8:53 and the moon didn’t rise until 9:54. It was also a spring low tide (9:52 pm) and one of the lowest of the season.

Regardless of who is responsible, I wonder if anyone has investigated the possibility that Madeleine, if dead, might have been buried in the sand among rocks.
 
  • #507
Not sticking up for parents here but I do question the doubts about the Brits work on this case. Wasn't it said to have been their dogs and forensics specialists that uncovered the new evidence? So why then send those people in just to waste that time and scuttle the results at the lab level? I know that once in awhile politics plays a part in some cases but I think the Brits just seem to be better than that, especially when their nation has little to lose if the parents are infact proven guilty of a crime. If the parents are guilty no one will think that all Brits are like the parents. People in power did not get there by being the most stupid person in the room so why would they risk their reputation and office over one relatively unimportant couple?


I agree docwho3.
If seems to be forgotton in the rush to judgement that if there has been any evidence found it has been thanks to the Brits.
And as a Brit I am offended that the honesty of the lab in the UK is now being questioned. Absolutely ridiculous!!!

Is this really what we are coming to?
 
  • #508
april4sky, I'm not trying to offend anyone, and I'm sorry if I offended you. The lab results were supposed to be ready a week ago and they aren't. This makes me uneasy, and maybe I'm just being paranoid. There could be a perfectly natural explanation such as taking great care to get it right and/or the tests are more time-consuming than originally thought. Yes, that's probably why.

I know it sounds fantastice, but just supposed that, in your wildest imagination, Madeleine's disappearance is more than just a simple child abduction or murder cover-up. Suppose a conspiracy theory really is true and powerful people are behind it. Or on a simpler level, what if some politician has tied his future into the parents being innocent to the same point? Wouldn't these people do anything to keep evidence pointing to them quiet?
 
  • #509
april4sky, I'm not trying to offend anyone, and I'm sorry if I offended you. The lab results were supposed to be ready a week ago and they aren't. This makes me uneasy, and maybe I'm just being paranoid. There could be a perfectly natural explanation such as taking great care to get it right and/or the tests are more time-consuming than originally thought. Yes, that's probably why.

I know it sounds fantastice, but just supposed that, in your wildest imagination, Madeleine's disappearance is more than just a simple child abduction or murder cover-up. Suppose a conspiracy theory really is true and powerful people are behind it. Or on a simpler level, what if some politician has tied his future into the parents being innocent to the same point? Wouldn't these people do anything to keep evidence pointing to them quiet?
Results of DNA and any other medical tests can be tampered with, getting a second opinion doesnt mean that the first one is incorrect or has been tampered with, I know I would want it to be 100% correct, its like going to the doctor, he diagnoses you with an ailment, you get a second opinion and it is a totally different outcome. It doesnt hurt to cover all bases.
 
  • #510
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/17372

THE parents of Madeleine McCann want trustees of a £1million fighting fund to start spending the money fast in a last desperate effort to trace their missing daughter.

As the police investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance flounders, tensions are building between Gerry and Kate McCann and the fund trustees, including his brother John, who control the money donated by the public.


Okay, let me make it clear that I'm not complaining. I think it's good that they're going to start spending money to ramp up the search for Madeleine. But isn't this in direct contrast to the press conference in Scotland when Gerry said they were going to lower their profile? I thought they were talking about going home to the UK and resuming their careers.

It is so confusing.
 
  • #511
april4sky, I'm not trying to offend anyone, and I'm sorry if I offended you. The lab results were supposed to be ready a week ago and they aren't. This makes me uneasy, and maybe I'm just being paranoid. There could be a perfectly natural explanation such as taking great care to get it right and/or the tests are more time-consuming than originally thought. Yes, that's probably why.

I know it sounds fantastice, but just supposed that, in your wildest imagination, Madeleine's disappearance is more than just a simple child abduction or murder cover-up. Suppose a conspiracy theory really is true and powerful people are behind it. Or on a simpler level, what if some politician has tied his future into the parents being innocent to the same point? Wouldn't these people do anything to keep evidence pointing to them quiet?
No worries Callikid.
But I would put money on the honesty of the UK labs. I also believe they are probably some of the best, and most professional in the world and are making sure they get it right. They won't be rushed and will take all the time they need.

I don't buy into the conspiracy theories.
If there were any truth that the McCanns killed Madeleine. Which I still don't believe...I really can't believe any politician would risk their future by helping to cover up a killing.
And I think they would distance themselves pretty sharpish if they now believed the McCanns guilty.
 
  • #512
. . .Okay, let me make it clear that I'm not complaining. I think it's good that they're going to start spending money to ramp up the search for Madeleine. But isn't this in direct contrast to the press conference in Scotland when Gerry said they were going to lower their profile? I thought they were talking about going home to the UK and resuming their careers.

It is so confusing.
It's a valid question. I am not sure I have an answer. Perhaps all the recent newspaper accusations against the parents have spurred them on beyond earlier plans. Or perhaps they want to spend the money on PI's who would work behind the scenes. Also remember they seem to be readying a transition to a new pr person. Perhaps they are getting new directions from that person.

Note: I bolded part of the quote to emphasize the part I responded to.
 
  • #513
  • #514
Thought you guys would be interested in this article.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22308860-2,00.html

Thanks. I did note one thing. Just as mrsmouse had explained that at the bottom of the article you may find balancing facts if an editor has not edited them out, I found this one line, "The story was dismissed by Portuguese police."

I am glad she lent us some of her knowledge of news article writing.

(Note: Not knocking the rest of the article but only commenting on how I read it after learning from mrsmouse's post)
 
  • #515
Thought you guys would be interested in this article.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22308860-2,00.html

GM's answer is very odd. He says, "Even if somebody could think that, there is just absolutely no evidence pointing in that direction".

I definitely would not have put it like that. I would've answered, "we love our daughter, Madeleine is the light of our lives and we miss her so much, we would never harm her, people who know us know how close our family is, etc.
 
  • #516
  • #517
  • #518
My thinking changes so much with this case, there are so many contradictions by the Media, which I know is not always the truth, when you look at what has been presented to the public by the media and the interviews and actions by the McCanns, imo we are still at the very beginning of this case, we really do not know anything other than Madelaine is missing.......how, why, where.....can anyone for certain answer this for me, with definite facts to back them up.
 
  • #519
The only things we know are that Gerry and Kate McCann went out of their apartment and to the Tapas bar at 8:30 pm on May 3. They were joined by 7 friends there. Gerry checked on the children shortly after 9:00. Kate checked on them around 10:00. Madeleine wasn't there. She hasn't been seen (to the point of being definitely identified) in public since.
 
  • #520
The only things we know are that Gerry and Kate McCann went out of their apartment and to the Tapas bar at 8:30 pm on May 3. They were joined by 7 friends there. Gerry checked on the children shortly after 9:00. Kate checked on them around 10:00. Madeleine wasn't there. She hasn't been seen (to the point of being definitely identified) in public since.
Thats right Calikid, so we all put out our opinions and try and make some sort of sense out of it all, there as definitely untruths been told by the McCanns and friends and the media, this is so confusing, we dont know who to believe, we have no actual evidence to support what has happened to Madelaine. WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? I am frustrated, angry and very sympathetic to Madelaine.
 
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