Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 2

[scandi]

What I'm really thinking SS, is I do agree with your last paragraph to me. We have been warned about taking the press + salt for truth in any matter.

I want to stay open to everything now, but don't see the parents as covering up an accidental death or planning to have a problem child abducted away.

What I do think is that this event has revealed some things about their lifestyle that these parents don't want made public which is where the discrepencies are coming in, to minimize things so the public doesn't focus on them, and then build up their image as wonderful parents with the help of a team of newhires.

It might turn out they have skeletons that would deter people from contributing to the search fund for example. Or they might want to keep delicate matters private or any thing else they do that good parents most likely wouldn't. Info is already out there sizzling like bacon about these things and it is the last thing they need going on right now. Finding Madeline is the important thing. Let the law or social agencies take care of them any way they want to after she is back home.

I read people are sending letters to a certain office to have these doctors investigated as to their poor parenting skills, and if there are enough complaints they will be forced to do an inquisition, speaking mainly I think of the father.

Nite SS Manyana ;}

 

[Shazza]

To Scandi, your posts and links have really got me thinking, there are to many discrepancies. There are to many scenarios and assumptions and I for one am guilty for speculating what may have happened. We have to wait for definite and true fact from the police and investigators. But I still and in no way can anyone change my mind think the parents are involved in some way as well as being negligent in the care of their children. Until Madelaine is found or more competant witnesses come forward we dont really know what happened. Let us pray for Madelaine.

Scandi have you ever thought about a career in this field. Your interest and talent of such matters is enlightening.

 

[Laurajean]

Persons page that are very interesting:

1. They list Madeleine as having "disappeared", not as "being kidnapped". On other missing persons pages, where they think the person was kidnapped, they say "kidnapped" or "taken away".

2. They list the time of her disappearance as 10:40 p.m., not between 9:30 and 10:00 p.m. Remember, 10:40 would be well AFTER the parents had come back to the apartment and found her missing, according to their accounts.

http://www.policiajudiciaria.pt/htm/Ingles/missing_person/madeleine.htm

I think that they (some of the Portuguese Police) may have realized that Madeleine probably woke up and wandered off. The ocean was right near their apartment. I'm guessing that she woke up, couldn't find her parents, and wandered out of the apartment, and ended up in the ocean. The only thing that is throwing me for a loop is her scent being traced unbroken to this grocery store, and then it vanishes:

http://supermercado-baptista.com/

Some on other forums have said that this could be because she went to the store previously with her parents. I don't think so, as they kept the kids in the resoirt's babysitting creche most of the day (parents' statements again), plus, the store offered services whereby you would phone in a list, they would shop for you and deliver your groceries. If it is found that M never went to the Supermercado Baptista, then the scent trail become very significant.

If the scent trail is significant, then I believe that this means she wandered to the grocery store, which the retired Scotland Yard detective who is consulting on this case said a small child "could easily toddle to (from the holiday apartments)"...and was picked up by somone there...If the store borders the ocean, though, again, she could have gone in there as well...

In my opinion, these parents are extremely negligent regardless of the outcome of this case. If they were not doctors, and did not have the funds to hire lawyers and a PR firm, they would probably be facing child neglect and endangerment charges sa we speak. Does anyone else think that it's odd that they posted a detailed daily schedule on their website? Wouldn't you do the exact opposite for the safety of your other children? Are they that self-centered that they need to post this info.? I think they are trying to divert attention away from their own terrible parenting. This is not "parent bashing"; this is fact.

(See the parents' website: http://www.findmadeleine.com/ for the schedule I am talking about.)

 

[CarpeDiem]

I'm not bothered about the writing their schedule thing, I look at their profession, they are used to taking scrupulous notes, writing down EVERYTHING, being extremely organized. I think that's just how they are.

We were speaking above of wether the children were asleep when Maddie was taken, this new link says she was asleep BETWEEN the twins.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1829442.ece

 

[Laurajean]

the other information I mentioned above, it becomes even clearer to me that she woke up, probably walked around the apartment first and saw her parents were not there, and then left to go look for them. As far as the schedule thing, I agree with you, except, why post it??

 

[twinkiesmom]

Can I just dispel the notion that there is a black market ring out there for the adoption of 4-year-olds.

Toddlers are readily available for adoption in Eastern Europe (and elsewhere). A four year old girl would be considered hard to place even in Russia. There are many, many children in this age group waiting for a family.

If it was an illegal adoption ring, I think the younger boy-girl twins would have been a more attractive target....But since the other couples dining probably had babies, why weren't they taken instead.

The adoption scenario is the least likely.

I hope they have ruled out a Wade Steffey type scenario by checking every opening, niche, cranny in that complex....even the ones that are supposed to be locked.

 

[MoonGoddess]

I am posting here in the hope that I can be guided as to a possible? theory/reasoning behind the disappearance of this child………….and if I should act on it.

I have an interest in Psychic studies.

I was ‘pondering’ on the disappearance of this child which led me to discover that she went missing during a time in which Wiccan?/Satanic? ritual is celebrated (don’t know if that is an appropriate ‘term’ to use but not having a lot of knowledge on these ‘activities’ was frankly stumped as to the correct terminology to use.

I found these links – excerpts from which follow:-

http://www.trosch.org/help.html


Excerpts from a Satanic Ritual Calendar found later in this document.....
.......

Apr 21 - May 1
Abduction​

I am not copying/pasting the whole thing as quite frankly I found it deeply disturbing.

also

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_article.html?a=cabc&id=8514

• "DATE: Apr. 21-26, CELEBRATION: Preparation for the sacrifice. DATE: Apr. 26-May 1, CELEBRATION: Grand Climax, TYPE: Da Muer, USAGE: Corpus De Baahl, AGE: 1-25 (female)".[21] …………………

Another Christian name for Beltaine is Roodmas, Rudemas or Rood Day, which has been moved to May 3.

.....

May 3 was the day Madeleine went missing. There was also a Full Moon the day before.

TBH this has totally freaked me out but needed to share it incase it holds any relevance. Would a police investigation even contemplate such co-incidences?...or even be prepared to expose - if any such activity was prevelant in an area in which tourists frequent?

Here is a link to a forum in the UK which is heavily debating aspects of this case, but mainly contains in house fighting amongst forum members whom have diversely opposing views as to the culpability of the parents, the huge amount of media coverage etc. But maybe some useful links as to the information we are receiving in the UK.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=575814

 

[Laurajean]

I think the most likely scenario, as I have said is that M left on her own, and ended up in the ocean or a large construction ditch.

A somewhat more sinister scenario I have contemplated is that she woke up, and walked around the apartment and had some type of accident there (such as ingesting medicine, or getting entangled in blind/drapery cords, etc.). The parents came home to find her, and the cover-up began. The only thing that would point to this so far is that the parents took a very long time before they sommoned police...

 

[englishleigh]

Persons page that are very interesting:

1. They list Madeleine as having "disappeared", not as "being kidnapped". On other missing persons pages, where they think the person was kidnapped, they say "kidnapped" or "taken away".

2. They list the time of her disappearance as 10:40 p.m., not between 9:30 and 10:00 p.m. Remember, 10:40 would be well AFTER the parents had come back to the apartment and found her missing, according to their accounts.

http://www.policiajudiciaria.pt/htm/Ingles/missing_person/madeleine.htm

I think that they (some of the Portuguese Police) may have realized that Madeleine probably woke up and wandered off. The ocean was right near their apartment. I'm guessing that she woke up, couldn't find her parents, and wandered out of the apartment, and ended up in the ocean. The only thing that is throwing me for a loop is her scent being traced unbroken to this grocery store, and then it vanishes:

http://supermercado-baptista.com/

Some on other forums have said that this could be because she went to the store previously with her parents. I don't think so, as they kept the kids in the resoirt's babysitting creche most of the day (parents' statements again), plus, the store offered services whereby you would phone in a list, they would shop for you and deliver your groceries. If it is found that M never went to the Supermercado Baptista, then the scent trail become very significant.

If the scent trail is significant, then I believe that this means she wandered to the grocery store, which the retired Scotland Yard detective who is consulting on this case said a small child "could easily toddle to (from the holiday apartments)"...and was picked up by somone there...If the store borders the ocean, though, again, she could have gone in there as well...

In my opinion, these parents are extremely negligent regardless of the outcome of this case. If they were not doctors, and did not have the funds to hire lawyers and a PR firm, they would probably be facing child neglect and endangerment charges sa we speak. Does anyone else think that it's odd that they posted a detailed daily schedule on their website? Wouldn't you do the exact opposite for the safety of your other children? Are they that self-centered that they need to post this info.? I think they are trying to divert attention away from their own terrible parenting. This is not "parent bashing"; this is fact.

(See the parents' website: http://www.findmadeleine.com/ for the schedule I am talking about.)

Laurajean, welcome to WS!!! I am with you 100%. the schedule has been discussed already and the only reason we can think of for it, is that they might have put it up to deflect criticism of their parenting. But I agree, I think it is very self-involved and also could put their remaining children in danger, if there really is a kidnapper out there. If a PR person had them do this, then that PR person is backfiring on them.

I have less and less sympathy for these parents as the days pass, unfortunately. Plenty of sympathy and prayers for little Maddie, but not so much for the parents who left her all alone. Anyone who wants to bash me, can bash away.

 

[Taximom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=456974&in_page_id=1770

The parents of Madeleine McCann today made a pilgrimage to one of Europe's holiest shrines in the hope that she will be found safe and well.
As they visited the shrine police in Portimao on the Algarve were re-interviewing the girlfriend of the chief suspect. (more w/pic at link)

 

[Jdee]

Sorry, I screwed up and lost WS lololol

Anywy, this document which must have been put out by the local police as a missing person report has some interesting things in it.

It says "about 22H40" which this group feels is the approx time she was noticed missing which would have been the time of discovery by the mother. That is 10:40pm, later than we had heard before.

LE logged the call in their bood at 23H50, or 10 minutes till midnight!

The family said they went to the Tapas Bar at 8pm. Gerry went to check on her at 2100 hours or 9pm acc to this and the mom went at 2200 hours or 10pm. Why the disparity of 40 min.

The mother came back into the Tapas club screaming "They've taken her", and there are a couple of posts here where people read the parents thought they were being watched. Yea, and they left their kids alone! Something is wrong with the scenrio.

If the mom came in hysterical like that she wouldn't have waited 40 min to lollygag in the apt, right? Oh, BTW, it is an apt they are staying in and not a Hotel room.

And then they point out the mngmt of the Tapas said from the time they got there { at 8pm } until the mom went to check on the kids { at 10pm or thereabouts} neither left the restaurant, which widens that gap of time for the window of opportunity to grab her - from 8 to 10pm.


The iother interesting thing I discovered is they showed what she was wearing and it is a pink pajama outfit. The lady who saw Madeline at a gas station said she was wearing a blue pajama outfit. Interesting on the police report it says 'similar', and did not give the actual color she was wearing to put in the report. Am I getting too finiky? lololol

I think all of this is startling info! SCandi

I find the underlined an odd thing for the mother to say... /Is it a known fact she said this? Why was it "They" have taken her? I would have come in screaming, "SHE'S GONE!" Who is "They"??

 

[Jdee]

Sorry, I screwed up and lost WS lololol

Anywy, this document which must have been put out by the local police as a missing person report has some interesting things in it.

It says "about 22H40" which this group feels is the approx time she was noticed missing which would have been the time of discovery by the mother. That is 10:40pm, later than we had heard before.

LE logged the call in their bood at 23H50, or 10 minutes till midnight!

The family said they went to the Tapas Bar at 8pm. Gerry went to check on her at 2100 hours or 9pm acc to this and the mom went at 2200 hours or 10pm. Why the disparity of 40 min.

The mother came back into the Tapas club screaming "They've taken her", and there are a couple of posts here where people read the parents thought they were being watched. Yea, and they left their kids alone! Something is wrong with the scenrio.

If the mom came in hysterical like that she wouldn't have waited 40 min to lollygag in the apt, right? Oh, BTW, it is an apt they are staying in and not a Hotel room.

And then they point out the mngmt of the Tapas said from the time they got there { at 8pm } until the mom went to check on the kids { at 10pm or thereabouts} neither left the restaurant, which widens that gap of time for the window of opportunity to grab her - from 8 to 10pm.


The iother interesting thing I discovered is they showed what she was wearing and it is a pink pajama outfit. The lady who saw Madeline at a gas station said she was wearing a blue pajama outfit. Interesting on the police report it says 'similar', and did not give the actual color she was wearing to put in the report. Am I getting too finiky? lololol

I think all of this is startling info! SCandi

I find it odd that the mother came running in screaming "They've taken her". Is this a known fact she said this? It would seem the natural thing to come running in screaming would be "SHE'S GONE!". Who is "They"? And why automatically assume a "they" were involved, or that she was "taken"?

 

[Jdee]

opps sorry for the double post!

 

[Spazkat9696]

Can I just dispel the notion that there is a black market ring out there for the adoption of 4-year-olds.

Toddlers are readily available for adoption in Eastern Europe (and elsewhere). A four year old girl would be considered hard to place even in Russia. There are many, many children in this age group waiting for a family.

If it was an illegal adoption ring, I think the younger boy-girl twins would have been a more attractive target....But since the other couples dining probably had babies, why weren't they taken instead.

The adoption scenario is the least likely.

I hope they have ruled out a Wade Steffey type scenario by checking every opening, niche, cranny in that complex....even the ones that are supposed to be locked.

I now this is off topic, but is this true? I had always thought blonde hair light eyed caucasian girls were hard to adopt at any age. Just thinking because one day my hubby and I want to adopt and it would be nice if the child looked like us, and our son. I want to skip the baby part though. From talking to other people I know who have adopted they said that that the blonde hair light eye girls are really hard to get. Meaning there is a really long waiting list. I had never thought about her having been kiddnaped for adoption to a loving family who may not even know she was kiddnapped. Not that that is any better, but I have heard about that happening. I know it appears to us that this is getting a lot of mefia coverage, but the fact is most people in the US know nothing about it. It seems like most people I ask about it know nothing about it and they are pretty up on the news. Just one more question has anyone heard anything else about the woman who says she saw Maddie in Morocco. I am attaching the link.
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/he...leine_hunt_moves_to_africa_after_sighting.php

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I think that since Madeleine's stuffed animal was still there, the mother knew she had been taken, because if she had left on her own, she would have taken her lovie.

"They" is meaningless, I think. Just what happened to come out of the distraught, terrified mother's mouth. IMO.

I find it odd that the mother came running in screaming "They've taken her". Is this a known fact she said this? It would seem the natural thing to come running in screaming would be "SHE'S GONE!". Who is "They"? And why automatically assume a "they" were involved, or that she was "taken"?

 

[Laurajean]

took her stuffed animal with her when she was kidnapped? I don't think the animal being left behind is necessarily a sign that she was kidnapped. If she woke up and felt she had to get to her parents, she could have also just walked right out the door, without taking anything.

I do think that what the mother allegedly said, and the fact that they waited sooo long to call the authorities may point to another scenario, which is what if she met with an accident in the apartment, or right near it, and the parents walked in on the aftermath...

- should be "Jessica Lunsford" sorry for the typo -

 

[RoughlyCollie]

It's a theory that depends on the child's habits, which we don't know.

One of my children had a lovey that he took with him everywhere, no matter what.

If Madeleine was like that, then if she'd left on her own, she would have taken her lovey.

The mother's response to her child being missing may also depend on what she knows about her own child. Perhaps Madeleine wasn't the sort of child who would leave an apartment to look for someone. Maybe Madeleine was a good sleeper who always slept through the night without waking up and/or without getting out of bed.

I've heard there are children like that, although none of mine were.

Maybe when the decision was made to look in on the children frequently, Madeleine's mother said, "what if she is kidnapped while we are gone?", and went along with the idea after pressure by others who were with them. Then, that being topmost on her mind, she would have said the child was taken.

Or perhaps it had crossed her mind as a very remote possibility, and that's the first thing she thought of. "Very remote" because if she had thought it a real possibility, perhaps they would not have left the children alone.

I am talking only about the mother, not the father, only because I am discussing what the mother was reported to have said.

took her stuffed animal with her when she was kidnapped? I don't think the animal being left behind is necessarily a sign that she was kidnapped. If she woke up and felt she had to get to her parents, she could have also just walked right out the door, without taking anything.

I do think that what the mother allegedly said, and the fact that they waited sooo long to call the authorities may point to another scenario, which is what if she met with an accident in the apartment, or right near it, and the parents walked in on the aftermath...

 

[Jeana (DP)]

She was in a strange country in a strange room with no parental guidance. What she "normally" would have done may not be what happened that evening.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

How well I remember that case! It is the worst I have ever followed.

I don't know if Jessica took her lovey or whether she was holding it and that [expletives deleted] psychopath just scooped her up and she happened to be clutching it, or if he gave it to her to help keep her quiet.

I don't know how long the McCanns waited to call the police. I do not trust any of the news unless it comes straight from the mouths of the Portugese police.

The reason I feel that way is that nearly everything I've read, I've found statements to the contrary.

took her stuffed animal with her when she was kidnapped? I don't think the animal being left behind is necessarily a sign that she was kidnapped. If she woke up and felt she had to get to her parents, she could have also just walked right out the door, without taking anything.

I do think that what the mother allegedly said, and the fact that they waited sooo long to call the authorities may point to another scenario, which is what if she met with an accident in the apartment, or right near it, and the parents walked in on the aftermath...

- should be "Jessica Lunsford" sorry for the typo -

 

[Jdee]

Has it been stated if she was potty trained? If she had woken up and need to to 'go' she probably would not have picked up her toy to take it with her to the bathroom. Not fnding her mother she may have 'forgotten' about the toy and opened the door and wondered out.
I want to add that I do believe she was kidnapped but posing all possibilities here.