Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 9

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Good morning, guys...

Shazza & her sweet Amy....:blowkiss: Glad to hear she's on the mend, Shaz.

Everyone...GROUP HUG!!!

Madeleine had run away before there in Portugal and stupid Kate still insists the child wouldn't do that?? What the heck? I agree with Beth, these people are either pathological liars or TOO STUPID to be DOCTORS OR PARENTS!!!

Guys...do you think the Portuguese LE already have the test results back on the blood found in the apartment? I'm beginning to think that they might and just have not released it yet.
 
Good morning, guys...

Shazza & her sweet Amy....:blowkiss: Glad to hear she's on the mend, Shaz.

Everyone...GROUP HUG!!!

Madeleine had run away before there in Portugal and stupid Kate still insists the child wouldn't do that?? What the heck? I agree with Beth, these people are either pathological liars or TOO STUPID to be DOCTORS OR PARENTS!!!

Guys...do you think the Portuguese LE already have the test results back on the blood found in the apartment? I'm beginning to think that they might and just have not released it yet.

Do we have confirmation that it is true that Maddie had run away before? As this is very very significant information. I think P LE might allready have perlimenary results back and they are busy making sure they dot all their I's and Cross t's before going public. Something stinks with this childs disspaearance.

mjak
 
SOL 11/08/2007

SCRUTINIZED

The SOL reveals what the McCanns and their friends alledgely did on the night of Maddie´s disappearance. Who should have died before diner.

The inspection performed this week on the McCanns´car reveals that the police admits Maddie´s body could have been moved during the last two months from the place it was initially hidden.

According to the Sol researches, the investigators are now looking for traces of a dead body in the Renault Scénic, that was rented by the Maddie´s parents only after her disappearance.

Putting away the abduction theory, the authorities are now trying to reconstruct the route for hiding the body.

During this week, the PJ and the British policemen, with their cockers surprisingly seen by SOL on a beach and a valley next to the resort, have achieved some researches inside and outside some houses.

It seems that the authorities have concluded that Maddie´s body has been buried in the surroundings of the apartment rented by the McCanns, or thrown to the sea.

After one of the dogs used by the British police having pointed the child´s death in the apartment, SOL tried to understand why the cinotecnic brigade of the GNR identified Maddiie´s scent only in the house.

Police sources state that "the dogs have only detected a movement of the body from a room to another in the apartment". No scent of Maddie has been detected in the outside.

In the meantime, knowing the exact time of the alleged crime is still pending. A specialist states : "the body had to remain at least two hours in that place for the dogs to point it".

In that case, and taking in account that Maddie´s parents stated they went out for diner at 20:30, the child might have died just before, considering that the disappearance wes noticed at 22:00.
 
in Sol on August 11:


Under the magnifying glass

SOL reveals what the McCanns and their friends say they did on the night that Maddie disappeared. Who would have died before dinner.

by: Felicia Cabrita and Margarida Davim
translated by: summer (from Proboards79)

The tests that were made this week on the car that was used by the McCann couple, indicates that the police admits that Maddie’s body may have been moved from the place where it was initially hidden, over the last two months.

As Sol could conclude, the investigators look for clues of the cadaver in the Renault Scenic, which was rented by Maddie’s parents after the child’s disappearance. As the abduction possibility is set aside, authorities bet on the reconstitution of the route that was taken to hide the body. During this week, PJ and elements of the english police – accompanied by the c-ockers that SOL surprised on the beach and in a valley that is close to the resort, last week – performed several diligences inside and outside several houses. The authorities seem to have concluded that Maddie’s body is buried in the vicinity of the apartment that was occupied by the McCanns, or was thrown into the sea.

The english dogs marked the death inside the apartment. And portuguese dogs did not find any trace on the outside. This fact is devalued by Pinto da Costa, a forensic doctor, who says a perfume on the body is enough to lose the dogs. A source of GNR that was heard by SOL says “the dogs only detected a movement of the child from the bedroom to another location inside the apartment”.

At the same time, it is still unknown at what time the alleged crime would have taken place. A specialist that was contacted by SOL guarantees: “In order for the dogs to mark the body, it would have had to remain in the area where it died for at least two hours”. If so, and considering that Maddie’s parents say they left for dinner at 8.30 p.m., the girl would have died shortly before that – given the fact the alarm to her disappearance was given at 10 p.m.

Blank hours

It is in these four hours – between the time the McCann couple picked up their children at the creche and the time Kate noticed her daughter was missing – that lies th solution to this mystery. This is also where the inconsistencies are found, between the versions that are reported by the couple and their friends.

The four friends couples, most of them doctors, always said they took turns among them to watch their children (either by listening through windows or by entering each other’s apartments) every half hour.

On that night, if the mismatching versions of the group are to be believed, there were up to three persons doing the same job. It is in this context that witness Jane Tanner appears, who is married to Russell O’Brien. He only appeared in the Tapas restaurant almost at the end of the dinner, saying his daughter, who is the same age as Maddie, was feeling ill. Jane, on the other hand, would have left the restaurant to check on her daughter and verify the other children at approximately 9.20 p.m. And she walked a narrow, scarcely lit road.

On her way, she passes Maddie’s father, who is talking to a friend, Jeremy Wilkins – a tv producer whom he met at the resort’s tennis court. When Jane passed them, the two men were close to a small iron gate that leads to the back entrance of the apartment: “It’s impossible. I didn’t see her”, Jeremy said.

That gate, which accesses a small patio, and according to Maddie’s father, was used by him and Matthew Oldfield to check on the children. In that moment, the girl’s father noticed that the door to the children’s room was more open and that there was more light than usual. Yet, he thought that Maddie, disturbed by her siblings’ crying, would have gone into her parents’ room, leaving the door open. But he did not check whether his daughter was there.

With these elements, which were corroborated by Matthew, Maddie’s father left the possibility that at that time the abductor was already inside the room, in the air.

Contributing to the kidnapping idea, there was also Jane Tanner’s version, who says she saw a man carrying a child, shortly after she crossed ways with Maddie’s father and Jeremy. But the tv producer – who was spending his holidays in a neighbouring apartment block – also dismisses that possibility: “I did not see any man carrying a child”.

Jane’s testimony was one of the pieces of information that would later be used to incriminate Murat, given the fact that the arguido’s house is on the street where the english woman says the man was walking to.

Jane walked approximately 5 metres from the individual who was carrying the child. Although there was little light, she describes him with detail. The man, looking caucasian, was wearing beige trousers, black shoes and was covered in a thick jacket. According to her words, “he didn’t even look like a tourist”.

In spite of the proximity to the person who would later originate the first drawing of the supposed kidnapper of Maddie, Jane, who socialized with the girl on a daily basis, did not recognize her. According to her statement, the child was wearing pink pyjamas, seemed to be asleep and was barefoot. This was the detail that she found the strangest.

That night, after Kate discovered the disappearance of her daughter (and after Jane supposedly confirmed with another friend that Maddie was wearing a pyjamas of the same colour), Jane Tanner made no comment. “I did not want to worry Kate even further”, she later guaranteed.

A witness that was contacted by SOL at that time seems to indicate that Jane, although she never crossed ways with the tv producer, may have described the right person, so if the suspect crossed ways with someone on his way, the versions would match.

The last diligences that PJ has performed do however put aside the doubts that were on Robert Murat, given the fact that the searches did not find anything that incriminates him.

----------------

The ‘movie’ of the night

After collecting all the elements, and crossing information from various sources, SOL’s investigation makes a reconstitution of the night that Maddie disappeared.

6 p.m. The McCanns pick their children up at the Ocean Club’s creche.
7.30 Madeleine and the twins go to bed.
8.30 Gerry and Kate arrive at the Tapas restaurant.
8.45 Russell, Matthew and Rachel Oldfield go to the restaurant.
8.55 David and Fiona Payne also arrive at the Tapas. According to David, all the elements of the group were already there. But Rachel assures that Matthew arrived two or three minutes after the Paynes.
9.00 Matthew went to check on the children.
9.05 Gerry left the Tapas to check on his children. When he is returning to the dinner, he meets Jeremy Wilkins – an english man he met during the holidays – and chats with him for ten minutes. Neither Gerry nor Jeremy notice Jane or the suspicious man that she says she saw, although they were all on the same narrow street at the same time.
9.10 Jane went to check on her children and notices a man walking hastily, carrying a child. She memorizes the suspect, but fails to recognize Maddie.
9.25 Gerry returns to Tapas. Russell told PJ that at this time Matt and he went to check the children.
9.30 Matthew goes into Madeleine’s apartment. Russell O’Brien leaves the restaurant at the same time. In the first statements, Matt does not refer anything strange in Madeleine’s room and Russell fails to explain that he stayed in his apartment because his younger daughter was feeling sick. Later, Matt said that he noticed more light in the McCanns’ apartment and Russell revealed his daughter was vomiting.
9.35 Matthew Oldfield returned to Tapas.
9.45 Jane Tanner says at this time – not at 9.30 – Matthew and Russell left the restaurant.
9.55 Russell returns to the restaurant.
10.00 Jane goes to the apartment and notices her daughter has disappeared. She goes back to Tapas and raises the alarm. Everybody leaves the restaurant, except Dianne Webster.
10.05 Dianne Webster goes into Maddie’s room. The twins are sleeping.
22.15 Dianne returns to Tapas, to pick up her purse and her camera.

---------------

The McCanns’ friends that the police is watching

Rachel and Matthew Oldfield

Rachell Manpilly is 36 and she is married to Matthew Oldfield. The couple has a daughter, who was only 18 months old when Madeleine McCann disappeared. But now even so the Oldfields asked for the Ocean Club’s babysitting service. Matthew met Gerry McCann when both doctors worked together at a hospital in Leicester. Matt has a pending accusation for medical negligence in that hospital, after a late diagnosis resulted in the death of a patient. This was not the first time the Oldfields spent their holidays with this group. The last trip had been to Greece – where they also stayed in a resort of the Ocean Club’s group – but that time Gerry and Kate did not accompany them.

Dianne Webster

63 year old Dianne Webster is the oldest element of the group. This credit controller is the mother of Fiona Payne and the grandmother of two of the children from the group that was spending their holidays in the Ocean Club.
To the portuguese police, Dianne told she could not precise which elements abandoned the Tapas restaurant during dinner, on the night that Madeleine disappeared. Fiona’s mother is also the only witness that said each couple was responsible for their own children, and did not enter their friends’ apartments.
After Kate entered the restaurant – visibly upset and yelling “they’ve taken our Madeleine” – Dianne was the only one who stayed seated at the Tapas’ table. Which she only left five minutes later.

David and Fiona Payne

It was David Payne who organised the group’s holidays at Praia da Luz. The reservation was made over the internet, after a good experience with the Ocean Club’s group, in Greece. This was the second time that David came to Portugal. The first time was eleven years ago, before he got married.
David and Fiona have been together for seven years and are both doctors, like the McCanns’ friends. The couple has two children and they were the only ones in the group who used the babyphone system to keep watch over the children during dinners – which always took place without the small ones.
Fiona was back in the Algarve on July 11, along with Rachel and Russell, in order to give their third deposition to PJ.

Russell O’Brien and Jane Tanner

Russell O’Brien is a doctor and lives in Exeter – the same english city where the sister of Robert Murat lives.
After studying at the same university as David Payne, O’Brien met Jane, with whom he has two children. The friendship between Russell and David is so strong that he chose him as his wedding godfather when he made his relationship with Fiona official, in Italy.
Coincidentally, Jane and Kate became pregnant at the same time, as the O’Brien couple’s oldest daughter is exactly the same age as Maddie.
Jane Tanner is one of the key witnesses in the ‘Madeleine case’, given the fact she says she saw a suspicious man, walking with a child in his arms, on the night of the disappearance. Jane describes the individual with extreme precision, although she was not capable to recognize the child he was carrying. The man that Jane saw has dark, thick hair and is 1.70 m tall.
 
So we now know who the mystery 9 is.Why did she not get up from the table until after 5 minutes of hearing a child was "abducted"????And said that each couple were checking on their own child:eek:

Rachel and Matthew Oldfield they used the babysitting service

David and Fiona Payne they used the baby monitors

Wow theres still more that I am still trying to get my mind around.Gonna read this a few more times.

Thank you for posting it colomom!
 
So are we to assume that of all the couples, only the McCanns and Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner are the only ones who did not have any sort of monitoring being done for their kids? I still don't understand why they ALL did not use the creche or some kind of baby monitoring.

What is the "babyphone" monitoring system...is it like a baby monitor receiver that the parents carried with them to hear what was going on in the apartment with their kids, or what? I don't think that would even have been enough for me in a strange place, especially if I was going to be drinking. At home, where the kids are asleep in the house and you are just on the patio in your own backyard, yes....but not on holiday in a strange place in a strange country.
 
Okay, I'm going to toss this out there...just randomly.

The suggestion has been made that Maddie and the twins were drugged and that possibly Maddie died from that.

Do you think that maybe this group of people were all drugging the kids? I get a weird vibe from this version of the story. And the impression that comes to my mind, purely speculative and all that, is this:

I think Fiona and David might have chosen not to use the drug - maybe because her mother was there? And not wanting to case suspicion on the others, used the babyphone to reassure herself and mom, but not wanting to make the others look bad by hiring the creche service.

I think Rachel and Matthew broke ranks and hired the babysitting service, possibly after a previous scare or after Maddie's crying out incident. I wonder if this caused a rift in the group. They are first time parents and possibly have the youngest child of the bunch (their DD is 18 mos), so I would expect them to be the most anxious. But why are they so nervous? According to the timeline, Matt checked on their daughter twice in less than 45 minutes.

Russell and Jane are the only ones who stuck with the McCann's and medicated the kids. Is that why their daughter was vomiting? Is this why Jane is so adamantly glued to their story? Because she knows she is just as guilty as they are? Perhaps they are the originators of the plans, not Gerry and Kate. Is this where the pact of silence comes from?

These people need to be asked some hard questions.
 
Ladies and Gentleman, may I introduce Mr. David Hughes....


Latest Update - Gerry's Blog/Diary

Day 99 - 10/08/2007

Today Kate and I did a series of TV interviews for Portuguese and foreign TV. It has always been very important to us that we speak to the Portuguese people directly since we are in their country and have received such tremendous support, particularly from the local community. We again talked about the YouTube channel Don’t You Forget Me which was launched yesterday. Naturally we were also asked about the events of this week, which has been incredibly difficult for us with wild speculation in the media. We have always been told that the police had an open mind about Madeleines abduction and that all scenarios were possible.

In the first few days after Madeleines disappearance it was so difficult for us not to imagine the worst case scenario: that she had been taken and murdered, particularly in light of the statistics on child abduction. However as the massive investigation and extensive search did not find any evidence of serious harm to Madeleine, we started to hope that she would be found alive. This belief has been encouraged by the police and reinforced by the experts at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children on my recent visit to Washington. There have been a number of children recovered, even after years of abduction, and whom the authorities had thought must be dead.

Everything we have done in the last 99 days in the campaign to help find Madeleine has been driven by fact that all our family and friends feel that there is a reasonable chance Madeleine is still alive. Kate and I, like all parents of missing children will always have that hope unless we see concrete evidence to the contrary. It is this hope that has sustained us along with the overwhelming support we have received from family, friends and well-wishers. As parents, we have always said we need to know what has happened to our daughter who has been such a massive part of our life. If the current police activity does uncover new evidence that Madeleine has been seriously harmed we should be the first to know.

We have always felt that the best chance of finding Madeleine is through the police investigation. We have done our best to get relevant information in to the enquiry, particularly from tourists who were in the Algarve around the time of her abduction. The fact that Madeleine could have been moved out of Portugal easily in the first few hours has been the reason the campaign has had to have an international dimension. One in six missing children in North America are found as a direct result of high awareness through distribution of posters and media exposure.

Tonight we attended the weekly vigil to pray for Madeleine and other missing children. These services have a calm serenity, which allow us to contemplate quietly. There was also a vigil in Rothley attended by family and friends. Tomorrow we will be marking the 100 day very quietly with a prayer service in Praia da Luz. Other family will be at the world pipe band chamionships in Glasgow and on the streets in Liverpool. A number of sporting events will also be marking the day.
 
Whoa, did they get a new blogger working for them? Or is that their PR guy, and if he wrote that.. was the other PR lady writing the old ones? If so, she was a horrible blogger!

That write up is a huge turnaround. He comes off as caring in that blog entry. I'm a little weirded out by how drastic the change is. From "Me me me, stop talking about anyone else" to "Look at me, I have a daughter who's missing and I also care!" (Just my opinion haha)

Shazza, I'm so glad your daughter is gonna be okay! Will keep her in prayers :)

On a side note, I found that I could hide a certain poster's comments by clicking their profile and clicking the "ignore" link, and add their names to the list. Then just refreshing the thread. Their posts are still there, just hidden. But I can tell they posted something for the sake of following the thread. My blood pressure is feeling much better now.
 
Whoa, did they get a new blogger working for them? Or is that their PR guy, and if he wrote that.. was the other PR lady writing the old ones? If so, she was a horrible blogger!

That write up is a huge turnaround. He comes off as caring in that blog entry. I'm a little weirded out by how drastic the change is. From "Me me me, stop talking about anyone else" to "Look at me, I have a daughter who's missing and I also care!" (Just my opinion haha)

Shazza, I'm so glad your daughter is gonna be okay! Will keep her in prayers :)

On a side note, I found that I could hide a certain poster's comments by clicking their profile and clicking the "ignore" link, and add their names to the list. Then just refreshing the thread. Their posts are still there, just hidden. But I can tell they posted something for the sake of following the thread. My blood pressure is feeling much better now.

I noticed that too. I had read they got a new spokesperson, maybe they double as a blogger.

Now, I'm off to find that ignore button. LOL
 
On a side note, I found that I could hide a certain poster's comments by clicking their profile and clicking the "ignore" link, and add their names to the list. Then just refreshing the thread. Their posts are still there, just hidden. But I can tell they posted something for the sake of following the thread. My blood pressure is feeling much better now.

Thank you for posting that Meowy, I actually did not know how to do that....right behind you Lurker!!
 
OMG, can you believe that!!? :snooty:

Quite obvious isn't it? I just wish, for once, the McCanns would communicate with all of us. It is that lack of communication that is creating all this speculation and conjecture. I understand about the investigation being hush-hush but, jeeeze, GM could have mentioned the change on the blog. By not saying anything it comes across that they must think we are stupid?!?!

~big sigh
 
the girl's father noticed that the door to the children’s room was more open and that there was more light than usual. Yet, he thought that Maddie, disturbed by her siblings’ crying, would have gone into her parents’ room, leaving the door open. But he did not check whether his daughter was there
Why not??

9.45 Jane Tanner says at this time – not at 9.30 – Matthew and Russell left the restaurant. She is putting her husband in a favorable position by making him "not" the last person to have seen Madeleine. Yet Tanner and Obrien- Jane and Russell- left their vomiting child alone! If Russell had left at 930 and returned at 955 because of tending to his vomiting baby...that would make sense. Only being gone for 10 minutes-brisk 2-3 minute round trip walk, comfort and clean baby--and then leave poor baby alone--makes no sense.

Why did Matthew Oldfield check on Madeleine? His kids had babysitters.
And "Later, Matt said that he noticed more light in the McCanns’ apartment"

So, he must have been there at about 950 and saw light but did not notice that Madeleine was gone. Does this mean she was abducted between 950 and 10?

Gerry and Kate arrived at Tapas at 830. Gerry went to check at 905, talked to Wilkins for 10 minutes, got back to Tapas at 925.* Why wouldn't Gerry be eager to return to the restaurant instead of chatting up a very casual acquaintance...was he waylaying Wilkins for an alibi, or to keep Wilkins from seeing something?


His friend Jane Tanner said that ten minutes after he returned to the table, it was her turn to check the rooms. So Jane left the table at 935* and saw nothing amiss in the room. The room was checked at 940 and 950, and nothing was wrong.

That night, after Kate discovered the disappearance of her daughter (and after Jane supposedly confirmed with another friend that Maddie was wearing a pyjamas of the same colour), Jane Tanner made no comment. “I did not want to worry Kate even further”, she later guaranteed.

What kind of a friend sees a child being kidnapped and doesn't say, hey, I saw them going in this direction, let's go look for them!? She witnessed the abduction and doesn't want to worry Kate with a major clue??

I can understand that the timeline might very well be innocently confused- they were drinking and enjoying themselves- but Gerry saw an open door and either didn't look to see if his daughter was there? Russell left his vomiting baby? Jane withholds crucially important evidence?

I also note that both Russell and Matthew were between jobs, and that Matthew has a pending negligence suit against him

"We have absolutely no doubt they (the friends)are not involved but the important thing is what the police think and that they are objective about their evidence," Mr McCann told TVI.

Starting to throw the friends over the side...
 
in Sol on August 11:
Under the magnifying glass...


Excellent post and great to read - you get what you read on the Websleuths label. This gives real food for thought.

To other over-eager defenders of relatives car-crash discussions ... I don't support the McCanns - I just appeal for facts - or opinions based on facts, on a site called Websleuths.

I don't like to see people unfairly bullied on a 'sleuth' website (and that goes for Robert Murat too) without some reasonable evidence for discussion. Surely there are plenty of websites where people can vent their anger at the McCanns parental behaviour?

After all, it appears that Robert Murat is no longer a suspect and if the McCanns are found to be innocent of the crime, then they all may be able to sue some of the posters who have made such damaging accusations on limited knowledge.

So why is this viewpoint so problematical?

On the topic in hand - The photofit of the male accompanying 'Madeleine' in Belgium that I have seen in the press came without the top of his head showing.

Odd, especially as the photofit is extremely well-drawn facially and the witness would have had plenty of time to see the hair. .. Did he have a hat?

Might it be because the description given by the restaurant witness was of an 'egg-headed' man -with its simlilarities to the reported male adbductor?

And why was there no DNA found of a female child - because presumably there must have been some in the restaurant? At least, any found would have ruled Madeleine's presence out.

Does one set of male DNA entirely mask another, as I would presume that it would be difficult for sniffer-dogs to work otherwise?

And if the DNA had been Madeleine's.. would the police have announced it as, from reports, the car has not been traced as the number plates were repotedly false and the abductor would probably dispose of any child in these circumstances?

Or was it all a hoax?

Personally, I still think the most likely abductor was someone living in or near the holiday flat but I'm interested in all the holes in any story to do with the disappearance of Madeleine that haven't been explained.
 
Shazza, don't let this poster get you down. I'm glad you told us why you were absent from this thread and glad your daughter is doing better. I like getting to know other posters while discussing a case and I believe this is a caring group of people and that's why we are here, because we care.

If someone wants strictly news and facts, they should check the news websites (Sky News in this case) rather than forums. JMO.
 
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