Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 9

[mjak]

After reading the timeline and finding out that the abandonment of these young children was not a group activity I find myslef stuck again on the fact these parents left 2 and 3 year old children alone in an apartment in a foreign country. I am now wondering what exactly was done to these children if anything when they were left alone. We have allready suggested the possiblitly they were drugged, but what if these were restrained in a room somehow. It has bothered me terribly that the back door was left unlocked. Now we here that Maddie had run off before. So we are to believe the parents had no problem leaving the back door unlocked with Maddie and the twins alone in the house? Are these parents so laid back as to not even check if doors are locked. I recall as a child when my mom left we with a sitter she went thru such a routine with the locks before she left and there was a sitter with me in the house!! This child abandonment is no longer just conerning to me as a type of child endangerment and neglect but I am now questioning if there are not further implications of this whole bizzare setup.

mjak

mjak

 

[CaliKid]

OMG, can you believe that!!? :snooty:

They said a couple days ago that they had a new PR or media-management person. Justine McGill (or McGuiness) no longer works for them. The McCanns claim they didn't like her, and maybe their expectations of her was for her to magically make all these suspicions go away. But just as easily, she may have decided to jump ship before it sank.

 

[Morag]

Yet, he thought that Maddie, disturbed by her siblings’ crying, would have gone into her parents’ room, leaving the door open. But he did not check whether his daughter was there.


Okay, they left the kids alone, even though the siblings were likely to cry, and that Madeleine would probably go into her parents' room. And this makes it sound as though he didn't actually "see" any of the kids. They left at about 830, no one has checked until he shows up at 905 or so, he sees that things look different- open door- but he doesn't do anything at all to see what might have happened. What was he supposed to be checking on? Or was he just supposed to listen--this sounds like they left the children crying in their cribs...It also sounds as though he was distancing himself from having "seen" anything, thereby opening the window of opportunity during which the abductor could have taken her. 905, he listens, doesn't look, then spends time with a (drum roll) television producer.

 

[CaliKid]

So we have:

Nine people in the McCann group, 3 couples and a single person.

Gerry and Kate McCann: Picked up children from crèche at 6:00, fed them dinner, and reportedly put them to bed at 7:30. They arrived at Tapas restaurant at 8:30. At 9:05 GM went to check on children, noticing an open door and some light. He figured Madeleine had gone into his room to sleep because of the twins’ crying but didn’t check on her.

- Why didn’t GM find out of the twins were awake and had been crying since this had been a complaint of the resort on earlier nights?
- Why didn’t GM check on Madeleine and find out which room she was sleeping in, meaning she might be awake, knowing she sometimes left the apartment alone?


Rachel and Mathew Oldfield: MO worked at same hospital as Gerry McCann and is now accused of negligence. The Oldfields went on holiday to Greece with the other couples (but not McCanns) and used MW resort there. They have daughter 18 months old who was being watched by sitting service. They arrived at the Tapas at 8:45.

- Why did MO go back to the apartments at 9:00 to check on the children if his daughter was in the care of a babysitter?
- Why did MO go back to the apartments to check on the children again if his daughter was in the care of a babysitter?
- Did he go to apartments at 9:30 or 9:45 and is this significant?
- Did he actually see the children or just listen through a door?


David and Fiona Payne: DP arranged the resort holiday in Portugal. They have two daughters and used babyphone service for them. They arrived at the Tapas at 8:55 and by all reports didn’t leave the table.

- What is relationship between the Paynes and the McCanns? How did they come to be friends?
- DP says everyone (including Russell O’Brien) was at the Tapas when they arrived, but RP claims MO arrived after they did.


Jane Tanner and Russell O’Brien: RO is doctor in city near Robert Murat’s sister but no tie-in has been discovered. RO is best friends with Mathew Oldfield through their university. JT and KM had babies the same time (has 4-year-old daughter and younger girl), but did not hire nanny or use phone service for children. RO was said to have arrived at the Tapas at 8:45, but no time given for JT.

- What is the relationship between Tanner/O’Brien and the McCanns? How did they come to be friends?
- Tanner/O’Brien couple are just as guilty of neglect as McCanns for leaving their daughters alone, so is this a reason to lie?
- What time did RO really arrive at the Tapas bar?
- What time did JT arrive at the Tapas bar and is it significant?
- Why did JT leave the table at 9:10 or 9:20 to check on the children while Gerry McCann was already checking them?
- How did JT see a man carrying a child who wasn’t seen by either Gerry McCann or Jeremy Wilkins?
- Why didn’t Gerry McCann see JT?
- Why didn’t Jeremy Wilkins see JT?
- If the egg-headed man with child aroused her suspicions, why didn’t she say anything to the other parents? Why was it so important not to worry Kate McCann about a stranger carrying a child- a stranger who might have taken one of the McCann children?
- If RO was at dinner that night (according to timeline), why is it being said (especially by most of the Tapas staff) that he wasn’t there until very late?
- If one of their daughters (the oldest being 4, the same age as Madeleine) was truly throwing up, why did RO only spend 10-25 minutes with her? Why did he leave her at 9:55 to return to the restaurant?

Diana Webster: Fiona's mother.

- Why didn't she get up from the table when KM came back screaming that Madeleine was missing?


Did I miss anything?

 

[Morag]

What if the hidden ingredient is drugs? Not the baby sleeping drugs, but the kind that adults might indulge in? If you see people getting up frequently from a table in a bar, then reappearing, sometimes it's because they've been enjoying a little sniff 'o' something in the bathroom. And what if the source for the drugs was someone who lives in PDL? Everyone would have a very good reason to hide this little hobby, and everyone would want to make sure their hotel rooms were "clean" before the police were notified.
This is a very random scenario, but it would answer some of the unanswered questions...

 

[englishleigh]

What if the hidden ingredient is drugs? Not the baby sleeping drugs, but the kind that adults might indulge in? If you see people getting up frequently from a table in a bar, then reappearing, sometimes it's because they've been enjoying a little sniff 'o' something in the bathroom. And what if the source for the drugs was someone who lives in PDL? Everyone would have a very good reason to hide this little hobby, and everyone would want to make sure their hotel rooms were "clean" before the police were notified.
This is a very random scenario, but it would answer some of the unanswered questions...

Morag, that is very possible...they are all hiding something for sure, whether it's drugs or what REALLY happened to Madeleine...or BOTH.

 

[colomom]

I have a few issues I would like answers to.

http://www.markwarner.co.uk/why-choose-us/sun/tons-of-fun-for-kids
This website indicates that the "Kids Club" (same as the creche?):

A choice of five kids' clubs
We run five clubs - each tailored to the needs of a particular age group, the clubs operate six days* a week from 9.00am to 12.30pm and from 2.30pm to 5.30pm.

The timeline indicates pick-up at the creche was at 6:00PM. Assuming the pick-up time was actually 5:30PM than the "window" widens to 3 hours.

I also read (somewhere) that a babysitter had actually been requested by the McCanns but was cancelled at 6:00 (approx.). Is that true? Why would they have cancelled the sitter?

I always thought that it was reported that Jane Tanner was running late for dinner and was on her way to the Tapas bar when she saw the egg-head man. Any idea if this is true? If it is, why was she running late? If it is as reported now, then she was already at dinner and left to check her children (at 9:10) and that is when she saw egg-head man. Which is it?

Other than that CaliKid...awesome job!

I would like to mention that I am very concerned with these reports of RO having a sick child and she was vomiting....and he still left her alone??? And GM checking on the kids and finding Madeleine missing from the room where she had been left sleeping and then assuming she had moved to the other room (because the twins crying would have disturbed her) and yet he did not look for her to confirm where she was, especially after this new report of her having "escaping the apartment and hiding" previously and the door had been left unlocked, nor did he check on the twins to see if they were indeed crying, upset or ??? Very disturbing. If it is true it shows an incredible disregard for these children and their welfare.

If the timeline is correct with all the checking going on, why go to the Tapas bar at all? Seems to me it was nothing but people jumping up and down to go check on the children. This does not make sense.

I realize that virtually all the information we have is second-hand and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt but, shouldn't it be getting clearer as time goes on instead of getting more confused? Shades of a tangled web....

 

[colomom]

What if the hidden ingredient is drugs? Not the baby sleeping drugs, but the kind that adults might indulge in? If you see people getting up frequently from a table in a bar, then reappearing, sometimes it's because they've been enjoying a little sniff 'o' something in the bathroom. And what if the source for the drugs was someone who lives in PDL? Everyone would have a very good reason to hide this little hobby, and everyone would want to make sure their hotel rooms were "clean" before the police were notified.
This is a very random scenario, but it would answer some of the unanswered questions...

Good thinking Morag!! Children have been known to find and ingest their parents illegal drugs as well.

 

[englishleigh]

Good thinking Morag!! Children have been known to find and ingest their parents illegal drugs as well.

 

[CaliKid]

Do we know for a fact that both O'Brien and Oldfield were looking for new jobs? Was drug-use behind the malpractice case against MO?

How fast can we say out of the frying pan and into the fire? The more the McCanns and friends try to explain, the more guilty they look.

 

[CaliKid]

Good morning, guys...

Shazza & her sweet Amy....:blowkiss: Glad to hear she's on the mend, Shaz.

Everyone...GROUP HUG!!!

Madeleine had run away before there in Portugal and stupid Kate still insists the child wouldn't do that?? What the heck? I agree with Beth, these people are either pathological liars or TOO STUPID to be DOCTORS OR PARENTS!!!

Guys...do you think the Portuguese LE already have the test results back on the blood found in the apartment? I'm beginning to think that they might and just have not released it yet.

I'm thinking that they collected some blood samples early on in the case and are having the UK police double-check them to be positive.

 

[CaliKid]

Regardless of when Russell O'Brien showed up for dinner (if he did) or left during the middle of it, I think his arrival back at the Tapas at 9:55 is a pivotal moment. Was his return to the restaurant a signal to Kate that she could go to the apartments and come back to put on her "They've taken her!" act?

 

[RPPaolin]

Regardless of when Russell O'Brien showed up for dinner (if he did) or left during the middle of it, I think his arrival back at the Tapas at 9:55 is a pivotal moment. Was his return to the restaurant a signal to Kate that she could go to the apartments and come back to put on her "They've taken her!" act?

Her response is very interesting in of itself. How does she know at this point that anyone has taken her? I know that this has been discussed before but I cannot get past this one thing. Who is "they" and how did she realize the child was taken and not just missing (left the room on her own accord)?

 

[CaliKid]

The SOL reveals what the McCanns and their friends alledgely did on the night of Maddie´s disappearance.

The inspection performed this week on the McCanns´car reveals that the police admits Maddie´s body could have been moved during the last two months from the place it was initially hidden.

According to the Sol researches, the investigators are now looking for traces of a dead body in the Renault Scénic, that was rented by the Maddie´s parents only after her disappearance.

Putting away the abduction theory, the authorities are now trying to reconstruct the route for hiding the body.

During this week, the PJ and the British policemen, with their cockers surprisingly seen by SOL on a beach and a valley next to the resort, have achieved some researches inside and outside some houses.

It seems that the authorities have concluded that Maddie´s body has been buried in the surroundings of the apartment rented by the McCanns, or thrown to the sea.

After one of the dogs used by the British police having pointed the child´s death in the apartment, SOL tried to understand why the cinotecnic brigade of the GNR identified Maddiie´s scent only in the house.

Police sources state that "the dogs have only detected a movement of the body from a room to another in the apartment". No scent of Maddie has been detected in the outside.

In the meantime, knowing the exact time of the alleged crime is still pending. A specialist states : "the body had to remain at least two hours in that place for the dogs to point it".

In that case, and taking in account that Maddie´s parents stated they went out for diner at 20:30, the child might have died just before, considering that the disappearance wes noticed at 22:00.

 

[CatLynnette]

Did Madeleine have autism?

Link to read entire article:
http://www.strongwood.net/news/07-08-2007-1525.asp

Strongwood investigates Madeleine McCann case
august 7, 2007

quote, (bold is mine):
"While profiling involved people and researching our facts the team concluded that Madeleine could have been died before 19:00 we also found that Madeleine is a kid with a disability (autistic) which could explain her behavior and explain some witness declarations. The dogs of the British police marked the dead of the child in the apartment with traces of found blood. If death is marked than the child must have been death in that apartment for a couple of hours. Our team thinks she is moved from there with a white combi/transit vehicle to a beach location, while dumping the body into the sea. The person who has been seen walking with a child is a contradiction, but because one of the friends stated this witness declaration she would have recognize the child as Madeleine."


(Strongwood is an investigative company based in the Netherlands)

 

[Shazza]

Okay, I'm going to toss this out there...just randomly.

The suggestion has been made that Maddie and the twins were drugged and that possibly Maddie died from that.

Do you think that maybe this group of people were all drugging the kids? I get a weird vibe from this version of the story. And the impression that comes to my mind, purely speculative and all that, is this:

I think Fiona and David might have chosen not to use the drug - maybe because her mother was there? And not wanting to case suspicion on the others, used the babyphone to reassure herself and mom, but not wanting to make the others look bad by hiring the creche service.

I think Rachel and Matthew broke ranks and hired the babysitting service, possibly after a previous scare or after Maddie's crying out incident. I wonder if this caused a rift in the group. They are first time parents and possibly have the youngest child of the bunch (their DD is 18 mos), so I would expect them to be the most anxious. But why are they so nervous? According to the timeline, Matt checked on their daughter twice in less than 45 minutes.

Russell and Jane are the only ones who stuck with the McCann's and medicated the kids. Is that why their daughter was vomiting? Is this why Jane is so adamantly glued to their story? Because she knows she is just as guilty as they are? Perhaps they are the originators of the plans, not Gerry and Kate. Is this where the pact of silence comes from?

These people need to be asked some hard questions.

Just jumping in with an idea before I forget it, maybe Rachel and Matthew checked their kids more because they knew that Madelaine was dead and someone was coming to take her away, so they checked their own kids to make sure they were not taken by mistake, sound like a long shot but anythings possible.

 

[CaliKid]

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?storyID=8144

Phone intercepts ‘confirm Maddy’s death’

British paper repeating information from Portugal about Madeleine dying in apartment and inconsistencies in McCann accounts of that night.

 

[CaliKid]

Did Madeleine have autism?

Link to read entire article:
http://www.strongwood.net/news/07-08-2007-1525.asp

Strongwood investigates Madeleine McCann case
august 7, 2007

quote, (bold is mine):
"While profiling involved people and researching our facts the team concluded that Madeleine could have been died before 19:00 we also found that Madeleine is a kid with a disability (autistic) which could explain her behavior and explain some witness declarations. The dogs of the British police marked the dead of the child in the apartment with traces of found blood. If death is marked than the child must have been death in that apartment for a couple of hours. Our team thinks she is moved from there with a white combi/transit vehicle to a beach location, while dumping the body into the sea. The person who has been seen walking with a child is a contradiction, but because one of the friends stated this witness declaration she would have recognize the child as Madeleine."


(Strongwood is an investigative company based in the Netherlands)

We've talked about Madeleine having something wrong with her before, but never even considered autism. Looking at pictures of her, I find it hard to believe. She seems like a normal little girl with a lot of enthusiasm for life and affectionate towards her family. From what I know about autism, children with it are usually withdrawn and act "different".

What I find impressive is that a large group of strangers got together and raised money to send a detective agency to Portugal to search for Madeleine and determine what happened to her.

People who didn't even know this little girl did what her parents refused to do.

 

[Elphaba]

People who didn't even know this little girl did what her parents refused to do.

It is a sad statement when strangers seem to be far more caring about a child, than what the parents have shown to be. I have never understood G & K's demeanor, and I guess I never will...

As for her possibly having autism: I have to agree with you, CaliKid... I find it hard to believe, too. Of course, we haven't been made privy to or seen an extensive amount of footage to get a grasp on what kind of child Maddie is, but what little has been shown, she really doesn't seem autistic.

 

[englishleigh]

I have a degree in early childhood education and if Maddie was autistic, she was extremely high-functioning as if almost not to even have it. My best friend has a 2-yo son who is considered developmentally delayed/on the very edge of being autistic and I can tell you that Madeleine smiled for photos and seemed happy and normal in her photos and videos...my friend's son is nothing like Maddie even though he is not truly autistic..he is sullen a lot of the time, has tantrums, doesn't speak well b/c he is delayed...rarely smiles unless he is receiving undivided attention from one of his parents or grandparents, etc....Maddie didn't seem to be like that at all.

Just my :twocents: