Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 9

[Reannan]

You guys have been busy! Great post Calikid with the summary of the evening's timeline, and the questions they raise. Shazza, hope your daughter is still getting better. Today would be the second day after the accident, right??? Sometimes, the third day seems to be the worse.

You know, this autism thing is strange. Where on earth did the investigative agency get that info? I don't see autism when I see the images we have of Maddie. But then, again....we don't really have a lot of information about her life before going to Portugal, do we? Often, with these missing kids cases, you will hear lots of stories about how the child was, what they liked, what they hated, etc. We don't really have a lot of that, now do we? In any case, I just can't get my head around Gerry thinking that perhaps Maddie had gotten up from her cot between the twins, and moved to his and Kate's bedroom (which by the way, is where the blood was found on the wall....not in the children's room) and NOT going to physically look at each child! What was the point of going to check on them, if you don't CHECK!

 

[englishleigh]

IF she was autistic, then that makes the leaving them alone soooo much worse. Autistic children DO have a tendency to wander. (Maybe that was why they DIDN'T use the babysitting service b/c maybe they felt the creche or sitters would not be able to handle Madeleine, but in that case, with all the money they have, why not bring Kate's mom with them or someone trained to handle Maddie to babysit??)...and then there's the reports of her running/wandering away and hiding...autistic kids DO do that.
IF Madeleine was autistic, I am more furious than ever at Gerry and Kate.

Autism would also possibly help explain Kate's inability to cope with all three children by herself....but judging from Madeleine's photos and videos, her behavior is that of a normal preschooler.

 

[okietexan]

I have a degree in early childhood education and if Maddie was autistic, she was extremely high-functioning as if almost not to even have it. My best friend has a 2-yo son who is considered developmentally delayed/on the very edge of being autistic and I can tell you that Madeleine smiled for photos and seemed happy and normal in her photos and videos...my friend's son is nothing like Maddie even though he is not truly autistic..he is sullen a lot of the time, has tantrums, doesn't speak well b/c he is delayed...rarely smiles unless he is receiving undivided attention from one of his parents or grandparents, etc....Maddie didn't seem to be like that at all.

Just my :twocents:

Hi all, I haven't posted on this thread, but I do read here every day. You are all amazing with the information you find!

I am an educational diagnostician for the state of Texas. My job involves all aspects of the assessment of children with disabilities for a large school system. While we don't have diagnostic information on Maddy, I have to agree with the posters who say she doesn't appear to have autism. I diagnose these children every day and Maddy just doesn't appear to have even a mild form of autism...or anything else for that matter! Usually I can pick up on signs of a disability and I see nothing but a lovely, happy, smiling little girl. JMHO

 

[Reannan]

Autism would also possibly help explain Kate's inability to cope with all three children by herself....but judging from Madeleine's photos and videos, her behavior is that of a normal preschooler.

You know....that is a good point. I am not really into McCann bashing, because I honestly don't KNOW if they are guilty or not! The evidence in this case is the most convoluted, perplexing stuff I think I have ever seen. You couldn't write this stuff!!! Anyway, one of the things that has bothered me from the very beginning, is the way the McCann's left the twins in the creche from day one. If one of my children had disappeared, you would not be able to pry me away from the others for anything! I can certainly understand the kids going to the creche for a few hours after a few weeks had gone by, but initially, I would have been too terrified to loose sight of them for a single second. Speaking of the twins, and the creche, who IS watching them now that they are not going there anymore? When I heard that they would not be returning to the creche, I feared that it was because they were going to be sent back to England because the parents were going to be arrested, and then there would be no one to watch them when the creche closed. Dreadful.....all of it is just dreadful.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Just a thought re: Gerry and the producer friend lingering outside the apartment for ten minutes...Gerry stood by the gate...was he subconsciously or intentionally blocking the path to the apartment, fearing that the other man might get close enough to notice something amiss?

Gerry must be a stone cold sociopath if he put on that nonchalant act while his daughter lay dead inside.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I don't think we have seen enough video of Madeleine to rule out autism...There is an entire spectrum...Asperger's is very subtle and would explain the comments that this child was difficult to handle.

 

[colomom]

Hi all, I haven't posted on this thread, but I do read here every day. You are all amazing with the information you find!

I am an educational diagnostician for the state of Texas. My job involves all aspects of the assessment of children with disabilities for a large school system. While we don't have diagnostic information on Maddy, I have to agree with the posters who say she doesn't appear to have autism. I diagnose these children every day and Maddy just doesn't appear to have even a mild form of autism...or anything else for that matter! Usually I can pick up on signs of a disability and I see nothing but a lovely, happy, smiling little girl. JMHO

Welcome okietexan!!!

Thanks for posting this for us, we always appreciate the input of a pro!

I hope you will post again, the more the merrier

 

[okietexan]

Welcome okietexan!!!

Thanks for posting this for us, we always appreciate the input of a pro!

I hope you will post again, the more the merrier

Thank you Colomom! I must say that I always find your posts to be very informative!! You do great things for this thread.

 

[colomom]

I don't think we have seen enough video of Madeleine to rule out autism...There is an entire spectrum...Asperger's is very subtle and would explain the comments that this child was difficult to handle.

Absolutely true twinkiesmom, I have direct experience with Asperger's and it is very subtle in the child I know.

The Strongwood article does make a brief reference to autisim however, it is important to see that this is an article written by an investigative organization (Strongwood is a license holder in the Netherlands, UK and USA. The way we process our data is also registered at the College of Protecting Personal Information in The Haeg (Den Haag, Netherlands) and they have concluded that "While profiling involved people and researching our facts the team concluded that Madeleine could have been died before 19:00 we also found that Madeleine is a kid with a disability (autistic) which could explain her behavior and explain some witness declarations. The dogs of the British police marked the dead of the child in the apartment with traces of found blood. If death is marked than the child must have been death in that apartment for a couple of hours. Our team thinks she is moved from there with a white combi/transit vehicle to a beach location, while dumping the body into the sea. The person who has been seen walking with a child is a contradiction, but because one of the friends stated this witness declaration she would have recognize the child as Madeleine."

I think is is very significant that the first private investigator that we have heard from has come to this conclusion! Also that this team was hired by "by a group of more than 105.000 Dutch citizens to do this investigation at only the costs of research." I wonder how this group was organized...

How long have we been hollering for a PI?? Finally....

 

[colomom]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news2.shtml

Exclusive: New clues on 100th day of search

Very interesting article...new information....

Finally...a picture of Jane Tanner!

"A source close to the investigation last night told us Maddie's toy cat was found HIGH UP in the bedroom—well out of reach of the youngster who went to sleep cuddling it.

Police believe the kidnapper put it there because it would have been used to help identify Madeleine when appeals to find her were launched."

 

[Texana]

"Difficult to handle" can mean many things, depending on who says it.

A child left in the care of nannies almost exclusively--and whose parents seemed by their actions at the resort less than interested in being with their own children than in vacationing with friends--would perhaps be "difficult to handle."
Inconsistent rules and expectations for behavior, (especially if the parents had a lot of turnover with their nanny employees) and over-indulgent actions by parents can make any child difficult.

 

[CaliKid]

If all this information about the McCanns somehow hurting Madeleine to the point of death or accidentally killing her is true, it certainly makes sense that the parents wouldn't want to hire a PI team. They didn't want anything uncovered. But their behavior is an enigma too- it makes me wonder if her disappearance/death would've been unexplained forever if the McCanns had just sat back and let events happen like many parents of missing kids do.

 

[twinkiesmom]

<<"Difficult to handle" can mean many things, depending on who says it. >>

Agreed. I know several families whose children's shortcomings in behavior are directly proportional to a lack of parenting skills. My one neighbor's children only receive discipline from my 10-year-old daughter...you would think they would reject being bossed around (especially by another kid), but they seek her out as a companion.

But if there is autism, that would explain the lable "difficult to handle" as well. I would love to know where the PIs got their information.

 

[CatLynnette]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news2.shtml

Exclusive: New clues on 100th day of search

Very interesting article...new information....

Finally...a picture of Jane Tanner!

"A source close to the investigation last night told us Maddie's toy cat was found HIGH UP in the bedroom—well out of reach of the youngster who went to sleep cuddling it.

Police believe the kidnapper put it there because it would have been used to help identify Madeleine when appeals to find her were launched."

I am surprised. If this is true then why didn't the police confiscate the toy (cuddle cat) to test for fingerprints and to do forensic tests on it? Kate McCann carries around the toy everywhere she goes.

 

[KR2tonenow]

I have a few issues I would like answers to.

http://www.markwarner.co.uk/why-choose-us/sun/tons-of-fun-for-kids
This website indicates that the "Kids Club" (same as the creche?):

A choice of five kids' clubs
We run five clubs - each tailored to the needs of a particular age group, the clubs operate six days* a week from 9.00am to 12.30pm and from 2.30pm to 5.30pm.

The timeline indicates pick-up at the creche was at 6:00PM. Assuming the pick-up time was actually 5:30PM than the "window" widens to 3 hours.

I also read (somewhere) that a babysitter had actually been requested by the McCanns but was cancelled at 6:00 (approx.). Is that true? Why would they have cancelled the sitter?

I always thought that it was reported that Jane Tanner was running late for dinner and was on her way to the Tapas bar when she saw the egg-head man. Any idea if this is true? If it is, why was she running late? If it is as reported now, then she was already at dinner and left to check her children (at 9:10) and that is when she saw egg-head man. Which is it?

Other than that CaliKid...awesome job!

I would like to mention that I am very concerned with these reports of RO having a sick child and she was vomiting....and he still left her alone??? And GM checking on the kids and finding Madeleine missing from the room where she had been left sleeping and then assuming she had moved to the other room (because the twins crying would have disturbed her) and yet he did not look for her to confirm where she was, especially after this new report of her having "escaping the apartment and hiding" previously and the door had been left unlocked, nor did he check on the twins to see if they were indeed crying, upset or ??? Very disturbing. If it is true it shows an incredible disregard for these children and their welfare.

If the timeline is correct with all the checking going on, why go to the Tapas bar at all? Seems to me it was nothing but people jumping up and down to go check on the children. This does not make sense.

I realize that virtually all the information we have is second-hand and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt but, shouldn't it be getting clearer as time goes on instead of getting more confused? Shades of a tangled web....

I have refrained from adding my thoughts on this thread. But I like what you have written, alot of this information seems to be coming from the parents and their friends. I think its about time the Porteguese questions them yet again. I don't know whose at fault here. By, IMHO, leaving small children unattended is a horrible error. This poor child is the victim of bad parenting, and possibly murder! I was very suspicious when she was first taken, and we started hearing famous British stars supporting the search for young Maddy. First we had JK Rowling, then Simon Cowell, then David Beckam. Quite a few A-listers! Must be alot of donated money towards this stolen child. I grow very wary of highly public, top dollar missing profiles.

These are not humble people, IMHO. The focus is the daughter, MADDY. It is not about them! Yet, all I hear is more about this couple then anything in the press. :doh:

 

[CaliKid]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news2.shtml#payne

&#8216;MAULING SO WRONG&#8217;

Few can imagine the pain that Gerry and Kate are going through. I know. I&#8217;ve been there. The guilt, the anguish, the wondering - the indescribable hurting that never goes away...


With all due respect to Sara (Sarah's mom), what happened to her daughter and what happened to Madeleine are miles apart. The Paynes simply let their daughter go out and play, and she was preyed upon by a pedophile. At best, the McCanns enabled someone to come in and take Madeleine. At worst, they played a part in her death.

 

[april4sky]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,91210-1279527,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6942705.stm

Interesting video and article.

Portugese police have confirmed that Madeleine's parents, and even their friends are not suspects.

IMO. Sarah Paynes mum has it right. Madeleines parents are victims too. And sadly being victimised still.

I know and agree they shouldn't have left their children alone.
But dear God, what a high price they are paying.

 

[CaliKid]

My take on the PJ not officially calling the McCanns suspects is the same as why American LE agencies don't call perps suspects until they're ready to arrest them. It's about lawyering up and other ways these people stop cooperating. I believe that the PJ has had the McCanns in their sights since close to the beginning of the case and has let them believe they're not being investigated so as to give them rope to hang themselves. If true, and the parents had something to do with Madeleine's death, then more power to the PJ.

And if I'm wrong, I'll just take a larger slice of humble pie along with most of the posters here on this thread.

 

[BethInAK]

I would like to mention that I am very concerned with these reports of RO having a sick child and she was vomiting....and he still left her alone??? And GM checking on the kids and finding Madeleine missing from the room where she had been left sleeping and then assuming she had moved to the other room (because the twins crying would have disturbed her) and yet he did not look for her to confirm where she was, especially after this new report of her having "escaping the apartment and hiding" previously and the door had been left unlocked, nor did he check on the twins to see if they were indeed crying, upset or ??? Very disturbing. If it is true it shows an incredible disregard for these children and their welfare.

Could it be because the guy he was talking to was with him in the apartment? did he actually check on any of the kids, or not?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes...why was the babysitter cancelled at the last minute?! Has anyone answered that question with satisfaction yet? I am certain it wasn't due to the cost and if they trusted the "kids camp" people from the hotel all day with their kids...there should be no issue with the babysitting service. Makes me wonder if Maddie was still there at the time they cancelled.