Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[gord]

I don't believe their friends were actively involved. I do believe it's entirely possible they were used & manipulated as pawns by the McCanns


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again I have always said in this case that as there has never ever been anyone charged - let alone arrested - then anything is of course possible

I was asked my own theory and I gave it.


I don't think the McCann's are these master manipulators that control and use people as pawns - the y control the Taps friends , they control the Press , have access to government agencies and have at least three PM's all involved etc etc

I don't believe in complicated conspiracies - I honestly believe that someone walked into that bedroom and took her and was out of the area pretty dam quick

That is why there has never been a trace of a body or hiding place - not a sniff ( pardon the pun )

I also think that when we get to the point where individuals are named as child rapists or paedophiles - without a shred of evidence apart from some hinky meter or latest theory then we are crossing a line from sleuthing and debate to something a bit distasteful

 

[Linda7NJ]

again I have always said in this case that as there has never ever been anyone charged - let alone arrested - then anything is of course possible

I was asked my own theory and I gave it.


I don't think the McCann's are these master manipulators that control and use people as pawns - the y control the Taps friends , they control the Press , have access to government agencies and have at least three PM's all involved etc etc

I don't believe in complicated conspiracies - I honestly believe that someone walked into that bedroom and took her and was out of the area pretty dam quick

That is why there has never been a trace of a body or hiding place - not a sniff ( pardon the pun )

I also think that when we get to the point where individuals are named as child rapists or paedophiles - without a shred of evidence apart from some hinky meter or latest theory then we are crossing a line from sleuthing and debate to something a bit distasteful

Must agree about the pedophilia angle.


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[gord]

The evidence, including e-fits of a man seen carrying a child the night the toddler disappeared, was included in an intelligence report produced by a firm of former spies for her parents in 2008.
But the report was sidelined for five years by Gerry and Kate McCann because it was critical of people involved and would have caused a distraction if made public, The Sunday Times reported.
The team of hand-picked former MI5 agents was hired by the McCanns in the spring of 2008, 10 months after their daughter disappeared from the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz.
A report they produced was “hypercritical” of the McCanns and their friends and the authors were threatened with legal action if it were ever published, the paper reported.
Its contents were kept secret until Scotland Yard detectives conducting a fresh review of the case contacted the author for a copy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-is-from-five-year-old-suppressed-report.html

I need to read up on this - I agree it does seem a bit strange that the e-fits were not released for 5 years .

I have read in other reports that they did pass them on to the PJ who also did nothing with them - and it was their case to pursue

this did involve the PI's who ripped them off as well . - will refrain from comment until I have read fully

 

[haden]

The same Daily Telegraph reported on the 19th of this month that these reports were passed firstly to PJ and then to UK police.
I already posted the link above so I won't bother posting it again.

 

[goldengirl57]

My theory is that she was taken - it is the only one that makes sense to me - everything else just doesn't

How she was taken we cannot be sure - but I believe she was taken and driven out of the country that night and in Spain before the next morning.

I think it was planned and probably involved two people who either had inside knowledge of how easy it was to access the apartment. they knew the kids were being left alone and after a couple of nights watching - made their move. Access via the patio door which was unlocked and then some chloroform and maddy is handed out window to accomplice who quickly gets to a vehicle . Perp 1 either exists the same way - or back the way he came making sure that they were not spotted ,

I dont disagree at all my only problem is why the 3rd May? Prior to the 3rd we have no idea how often they were checking the children, and from what I have read in OFFICIAL files one child was heard crying for over an hour....so perhaps they were not checking as often as they said on the 3rd May.

IF I was watching I would work out what time the adults went out for dinner, then I would strike as its the best time as you know they are going to be there for at least 30 minutes.

I dont believe there were 2 people. If there was an abduction it was one person, who knew the patio door was unlocked.

Its easy to slip in, pick a sleeping child up, go out the FRONT DOOR and then travel to the left through the dark car park and away. So by 8.40 all done, and the child could be ANYWHERE in the morning.

The only thing that stopped me and others pushing this theory was the absolute statement from Gerry that he saw her at 9.10, the fact tanner said she saw creepy man at 9.15.

I dont think if someone was watching that they would do it much later as they would know people are bringing children back from creche around 10pm.

I dont think the sighting by Smith has much to do with it.

In PDL there are a lot of tunnels, anyone who knows the area could have easily used one and never been seen.

I am on the fence about the parents.

I can even work around the dogs.

IF the perb was a chronic pedophile, perhaps they had killed a child etc.

IF they had to hide in McCanns wardrobe the death scent can be transferred.

IF the perb touched the toy for example it would transfer onto that too.

The trouble also with chloroform is it has a really sweet sickly smell, if for example the perb took her 9.40 the smell would still be in the room, Mrs McCann being a medic would recognise it.

I dont believe in any of the theorys that say she died before the 3rd it makes no sense.

Anyway I can see both sides of the story.

 

[~n/t~]

I wish we get some answers soon. I don't think it's a coinkydink that SY and PJ are now working together and PJ suddenly reopened the case. As I said before something is up.

 

[Hexe]

Why the hello would these parents pick one child to kill over their others? Was there a fit of rage Or an accidental death? If so why didn't the parents call for help?
I'm not buying that the MCCann's offed their little one while on vacation.

Fits of parental rage do happen and some of them end up in a tragedy. We would be much less busy here, on Websleuths, if the things like that did not happen. And It also does happen that one child is picked as a family scapegoat, taking more abuse than the others or sometimes all the abuse.

And I truly don't know from where these ideas are stemming, that if the McCanns would have been capable of murder they would kill all of their children. I just don't get it. We are talking here about impatient, egocentric parents, not about Freddie Kruger.

The pictures of Madeleine's last days seen with her family make me think she was not an abused child or a stressed child, etc.

And Casey Anthony looked on her pictures with Caylee like a mom of the year. Pictures do not show whole truth, pretty often they show just what we want them to show.

 

[goldengirl57]

The same Daily Telegraph reported on the 19th of this month that these reports were passed firstly to PJ and then to UK police.
I already posted the link above so I won't bother posting it again.

Actually the PJ already knew about the sightings by Smith. Just as Amaral was going to bring back Mr Smith to Portugal he was CARTER RUCKED and thrown off the case lol.

It was because the PJ knew about the Smith case that Exon went to Ireland to talk to the Smiths.

I knew about it way back in 2007/8 my only concern was that Smith thought it was GM. Then when Amaral went, the sighting went, and I have written this before ..... over 2 weeks before the news in Telegraph, that some how I believe the sighting of the SMITHS...was CARTER RUCKED, well i was right lol......

 

[goldengirl57]

There are evil people who murder their children.

Every ten days in England and Wales one child is killed at the hands of their parent. In over two thirds (67% on average) of all cases of children killed at the hands of another person, the parent is the principal suspect.

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/inform/research/statistics/child_homicide_statistics_wda48747.html

I read somewhere that the worse age for a child is between 3 and 4. Many are harmed around that age. Quite odd stat, but then after reading it nearly every child seemed to be around that age.

so many children are killed by their parents its horrible. A lot say they have been abducted, it seems to be one of the most commonest excuses...

Terrible world we live in.

Sadly and I hate to say it, most children taken for sexual activity by pedophiles/sex offenders are usually murdered...

 

[haden]

Actually the PJ already knew about the sightings by Smith. Just as Amaral was going to bring back Mr Smith to Portugal he was CARTER RUCKED and thrown off the case lol.

It was because the PJ knew about the Smith case that Exon went to Ireland to talk to the Smiths.

I knew about it way back in 2007/8 my only concern was that Smith thought it was GM. Then when Amaral went, the sighting went, and I have written this before ..... over 2 weeks before the news in Telegraph, that some how I believe the sighting of the SMITHS...was CARTER RUCKED, well i was right lol......

Carter Rucking happened very long after Amaral was removed from the case.

Can I ask you what is your feeling then about Amaral being prosecuted for lying and the charge still not being moved from his name?

And the second question is about Amaral's best friend from PJ, Ex inspector Cristovao, who is currently being charged with 7 offences, one including spying on a 6 year old child?
Do you feel these two should be trusted more than the new fresh and professional PJ team? If yes, my question is why?

 

[goldengirl57]

Carter Rucking happened very long after Amaral was removed from the case.

Can I ask you what is your feeling then about Amaral being prosecuted for lying and the charge still not being moved from his name?

And the second question is about Amaral's best friend from PJ, Ex inspector Cristovao, who is currently being charged with 7 offences, one including spying on a 6 year old child?
Do you feel these two should be trusted more than the new fresh and professional PJ team? If yes, my question is why?

I am not prepared to go on about Amaral with you. Move on for goodness sake.

We are supposed to be sleuthing not constantly going on about something that Amaral did and has actually served his sentence.

Thank you.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I am not prepared to go on about Amaral with you. Move on for goodness sake.

We are supposed to be sleuthing not constantly going on about something that Amaral did and has actually served his sentence.

Thank you.

Team McCann love a good distraction.

:sick:

Amaral could be the second coming of Hitler for all I care, it doesn't mean he was a crap detective.

In fact the irony is, everything he has said is being supported by the new investigation.

The efit is clearly of Gerry. :moo:

 

[haden]

I am not prepared to go on about Amaral with you. Move on for goodness sake.

We are supposed to be sleuthing not constantly going on about something that Amaral did and has actually served his sentence.

Thank you.

Sorry but I cannot move on and accept he is a good guy, a better policeman than others and the person we should trust the most. He's been quoted here.
But there is also an internet link to a phone call where he threatens a family of 'fixing them up with a crime' 'killing them' so much the family contact the prosecutor re this..
His best friend does the same, threatens some people with killing them.. spies on a child..
I am sorry but how can I move on????
These people are not the way a proper honest policeman should be.. this is why they are no longer policemen.

And someone is implying all other servicing policemen currently working on this case are wrong and only these two are right?

I can only say thank god the investigation is on the right track now, the way it should have been from the beginning !

Lets wait and see what they are going to do with it!

 

[SapphireSteel]

WHAT CRACKS ME UP is Scotland Yard has taken TWO YEARS to trawl through all the paperwork, statements etc. TWO YEARS.

Hardly a poor investigation. All over the Internet on most forums you cant ever say the parents did it, but these same people are quick to say all they ever hear is THEY LEFT MADDY ALONE blah blah, get over it move on, yet the same people all they say is:

The PJ are rubbish
Pork Chop cigar smoking idiots.....
The PJ are rubbish
Pork Chop cigar smoking idiots...

Amaral is a criminal
Amaral is a criminal
Amaral is a criminal

The dogs cant smell
The dogs cant smell
The dogs are rubbish
The dogs are rubbish

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH lol.....

So give us a THEORY then. I havent seen one theory. I have written a theory about abduction, but not one real comment.

As to the McCanns crack team are you talking about Metodo 3 who spent every day holding their replica cuddle cats and squeezing them as requested?

:floorlaugh:

This is exactly my problem with the vocal pro-McCann sector.

There never is anything constructive, ever. Just bashing of everyone who is not McCann.

It's always the same old stuff re. Amaral/dogs on and on.

There isn't a cogent abductor theory because there wasn't an abductor.

:moo: of course.

 

[haden]

The efit is clearly of Gerry. :moo:

If he is then good, he will be arrested soon!

With proofs of his mobile phone being placed at the Smiths sighting, near the Smiths mobile phones.. so we can discount all of the sightings of him at 9.55 elsewhere.. because all of these people were lying..

Thanks god we have the technology now so we can figure out who actually was near the Smiths mobile phones at the time!

Awaiting for Gerrys arrest :seeya:

 

[SapphireSteel]

My argument has more or less been about the beginning of the investigation and wasting valuable time. Trampling all over a potential crime scene and disappearing on the night it was reported. Even if it was dark I don't believe that would have happened over here in the UK with regards to a child so young. I've read many cases on these boards concerning a big-scale police search at night and leaving a police presence with the victim's family. Also, for all we know, a member of the police could have previously been dealing with a dead body which could have contaminated the scene too. They made a complete hash of it, IMO. Same with the Greek police with regards to Ben Needham, who didn't even have an excuse that it happened at night.

There's that rumour or there's the truth, per the PJ's archiving report -

When the GNR officers arrived on location, several people had already touched the window and entered Madeleine's and her siblings' bedroom, and later on, when the PJ arrived at the apartment to collect traces, the space had already been rummaged through and contaminated due to the entrance of all of those people and to the fact that everything had been touched, thus rendering inviable, right away, the collection of important elements for the investigation.

In the drama of the moment, nobody – parents, friends of the parents, resort management and personnel – was cold and lucid enough to preserve the crime scene, preventing that rummaging and the consequent contamination of traces from happening, while it is common knowledge that it is any person's responsibility to preserve crime scenes – apart from a legal demand: article 171 number 2 of the Penal Process Code – thus avoiding that traces can be erased or altered, therefore the collectable evidence had already lost much of its indicative value. Hence the lack of evidential elements that were collected during that initial phase, so much so that the only latent fingerprints that were collected, with the number of elements that are necessary to perform a positive identification, were individualised as belonging to the missing child's mother and to a GNR officer (pages 885 and 1520), thus immediately rendering the collection of important data for the investigation inviable.

It was only when members of the Polícia Judiciária arrived, at around 0.10 a.m., following a request for their presence, that measures were taken to make the collection of residues and the preservation of the event’s location possible.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html


That's what happened to the Crime Scene. The PJ had nothing to do with it being contaminated. That was already sorted by Team McCann before LE was even called.

:sick:

Ramsey Lite.

:seeya:

BTW, the ONLY person who was convinced it was a "crime" from the get-go was Kate. Kate the doctor who knows all about contaminating scenes. She was a GP, GP's are largely responsible for reporting deaths at home and KNOW the requirements about preserving potential crime scenes.

So why is it the PJ's fault?

 

[SapphireSteel]

If he is then good, he will be arrested soon!

With proofs of his mobile phone being placed at the Smiths sighting, near the Smiths mobile phones.. so we can discount all of the sightings of him at 9.55 elsewhere.. because all of these people were lying..

Thanks god we have the technology now so we can figure out who actually was near the Smiths mobile phones at the time!

Awaiting for Gerrys arrest :seeya:

What people? Do you have a link?

No one independent of the Tapas crew ever saw Gerry anywhere at 9.55.

The Smiths saw him though, at 10.

 

[haden]

What people? Do you have a link?

No one independent of the Tapas crew ever saw Gerry anywhere at 9.55.

The Smiths saw him though, at 10.

So when is Gerry going to be arrested by the new PJ team for being at Smiths sighting at either 9.55 or 10 pm?

If you were right he should have been arrested straight away..

Of your think the arrest hasn't happened because of the political influence in UK and Portugal.. that all new PJ team and SY team are all corrupted in some way?

 

[SapphireSteel]

So when is Gerry going to be arrested by the new PJ team for being at Smiths sighting at either 9.55 or 10 pm?

If you were right he should have been arrested straight away..

Of your think the arrest hasn't happened because of the political influence in UK and Portugal.. that all new PJ team and SY team are all corrupted in some way?

I don't know.

But I'm very, very sure we're all about to find out.

You seem extremely pro-McCann, how would you react if they are arrested?

 

[haden]

I don't know.

But I'm very, very sure we're all about to find out.

You seem extremely pro-McCann, how would you react if they are arrested?

I am not pro McCann, I am pro Madeleine being alive and pro proper policing.

If the Scotland Yard and the New PJ teams come out with charging McCanns with a crime I'd be surprised but I'd clap my hands to them..

I am not hoping for that.. I am hoping with all my heart that they will find Madeleine. Alive!