Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[Estelle]

Sorry but I cannot move on and accept he is a good guy, a better policeman than others and the person we should trust the most. He's been quoted here.
But there is also an internet link to a phone call where he threatens a family of 'fixing them up with a crime' 'killing them' so much the family contact the prosecutor re this..
His best friend does the same, threatens some people with killing them.. spies on a child..
I am sorry but how can I move on????
These people are not the way a proper honest policeman should be.. this is why they are no longer policemen.

And someone is implying all other servicing policemen currently working on this case are wrong and only these two are right?

I can only say thank god the investigation is on the right track now, the way it should have been from the beginning !

Lets wait and see what they are going to do with it!

Amaral was made the scapegoat due to political pressures in both cases - Joana's and Madeleine's. Don't believe what you read in the UK MSM! Everyone has been out to get him to tarnish his reputation.

 

[goldengirl57]

I usually don't post here because I don't have a definite opinion or theory, though it seems to me like there are many things in this case that just don't fit, but I had to reply to this:



This is an extremely dangerous mindset. Please don't say things like that. There are many, many children who are abused but nobody ever knows because on the surface everything looks normal. Abuse takes many forms... sometimes it's the very blatant case of a kid with a black eye, sometimes the perpetrators are very good at hiding what they've done and many even have a great reputation.

For anecdotal evidence, I have a good friend. I've met his family and they were ALL incredibly nice and charming. Looking at his pictures from childhood and even nowadays you'd think they've always gotten along well and taken good care of him. When I was going through my angsty teenage stage at one point I almost felt jealous of him for having such a perfect family who seemed so welcoming and kind. He later told me that one of his relatives was VERY abusive to some family members including him but this relative of his seemed completely normal and was even a well-respected member of our community. That also added to the fear of his victims of speaking up because they were afraid nobody would believe him capable of such things.

It's exactly because of that that I'm saying this, because sometimes it might make it harder for people to get help or for others to notice something's wrong if they all believe the kind of stuff you're saying. Also it adds to the belief that abusive people are easily spotted when it's not true, abusive people often look and act exactly like any of us.

Saying things like that is naive at best and can be incredibly detrimental.

BRILLIANT POST.

I know about abuse and I was nearly trapped by a pedophile who was slowly grooming me. I have never ever spoken of it since. I was lucky as I told my brother about, and it was sorted....its irrelevant but i do know about such stuff.

The worse abuse i know about, was when i was 21 living in Germany with my husband and my baby. A couple moved in with a 16 year old girl and a 12 year old daughter. They too were in the military.

They looked normal, happy, the mum started to come to our coffee mornings, and i asked if her daughter would like to baby sit for me, it was arranged and she started to sit one night a week.

I got to know her slowly and out of the blue she told me something that shocked my world and my mind and my heart.

I cant tell you all the details it, even now its so painful. BUT this 16 year old normal even happy girl had been sexually abused it turned out by her father with the full permission of the mother.....the father was actually sleeping in the same bedroom as his daughter. She thought all this was NORMAL, but was really really upset because her father had suddenly stopped doing this, and was more or less ignorning her and was taking her sister out more and more. She was JEALOUS. She never spoke to me with fear but with JEALOUSY.

Anyway it rocked my world really, this poor girl was totally brainwashed and in love with her father.

I had to report it obviously to the SSAFA and everyone just disappeared I never knew the outcome. It haunts me all the time this case. The worse part of all this for me was the MOTHER allowing it. This is true by the way totally I swear to it. I have never repeated this for a long long time, I have put it away until I was told that mothers dont let their children be abused, they DO.

 

[goldengirl57]

efit being suppressed is a news report.. I don't trust the news reports so much especially because there is another news report saying the efit was given to PJ and SY on time.

Can you please tell me then how come I KNEW ABOUT it, I knew that it was thought to be Gerry McCann....I knew at the time way back that the detectives had gone to see the Irish family it was on the mirror forum or Digital Spy I think. WE KNEW.

What I do know is that when the hardened followers recently tried to find the information about the Smiths had disappeared gone without a trace. It was really important to tell people about it. AND AGAIN BORING I KNOW going on about something, but I have said on many a forum even on here, I felt this sighting etc and been CARTER RUCKED.....and I was RIGHT.....Amen to that.

 

[goldengirl57]

Hope it's not another witch hunt. Awesome if Ben but I doubt it. Gypsies don't abduct children

Yes we were talking about this elsewhere, I was excited about it, until i read the word ROMA...

I lived in Cyprus in 1968 (ex military from birth to 36 years old).

Believe me there were and will be a few children with blonde hair born there lol, courtesy of the military naughty lot.....

 

[Estelle]

efit being suppressed is a news report.. I don't trust the news reports so much especially because there is another news report saying the efit was given to PJ and SY on time.

The Sunday Times is a much more reliable newspaper than the Daily Mail. Do not believe the other UK newspapers because they are still singing the McCanns tune to give them a false sense of security. Clarence Mitchell is usually the source they use to whitewash the truth.

IMO the SY and PJ are "pretending to look for the abductor" (to keep the McCanns onside) because they know the abductor is really Gerry McCann as Martin Smith said he was 60-80% sure. This abductor sighting is THE ONLY EVIDENCE OF AN ABDUCTOR THEY HAVE.

Now they have to do these things plus many others:

1. Re-interview the Smiths
   
2. Find out if anyone else saw him.
   
3. Find out if anyone else comes forward
   
4. Find out exactly where Gerry McCann was at 10pm on May 3 using independent witnesses.
   
5. Find out if was Maddie's body or a decoy child if it was Gerry.
   
6. Two people phoned CrimeWatch and named the same person. Did they name Gerry?
   
7. Re-interview the Tapas9 and see whether any of the them break ranks and tell the truth to save themselves otherwise they could be charged with perjury and hindering the police.
   
8. Check whether there was a substitute child in the creche all week
   
9. Check all mobile phone records of the Tapas9 and Robert Murat from 28 April to 4th May, 2007 which the PJ had been denied before.
   
10. Get access to Maddie's medical records and the bank accounts of the McCanns which the PJ had been denied before

 

[goldengirl57]

We don't have that in London either although lots of Gypsies came from Easter Europe and the police is sometimes having problems with some of them.. but in a small sea side towns you do get visitors like that.. Greece, Italy, Cyprus, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, Bosnia etc.. they have completely different laws and the completely separated communities..

Mind you, they don't have their own country, which they should, like everyone else.

WRONG....Roma people came from northwestern India about 1,500 years ago.

They migrated to the Americas as well as Europe.

They were heavily persecuted in the war by Himmler and many ended up in Austwicz and at least 250,000 were thought to have perished there but no one really talks about them..as they were of little consequence because of the PROPAGANDA by Himmler and were spoken of like scum, thieves, antisocial of NO USE to the world, so let us get rid of them....

It seems a similar PROPAGANDA is now doing the rounds all to do with a case of a one missing BLONDE child. Now they are tarred as BLONDE CHILD TRAFFICKERS ... lock up your kids etc etc, and they are being perscecuted and their OWN CHILDREN are being OFFICIALLY ABDUCTED because of this terrible PROPAGANDA.

We should hang our heads in shame for perpetuating this myth and believing all the rubbish written about them.

Are the Romas saints, hell no, but then really how many of them are in prisons for stealing etc? Its full of people non gypsies.....as well you know.

Gypsy is the way of their life. People were scared of them because in the olden times they likened them to WITCHES and they could cast a spell on you if you refused to buy their lavender. I would expect over time some of them have used that superstition to scare us to buy their stuff lol......

But really they are like the Nomads. Leave them alone they just want to coexist and live their lives.

People do seem to get mixed up with Roma and travellers which is a different thing.....

the Romas in greece are living in a municipality similar to our council houses in UK, and the one in Ireland the same.

 

[goldengirl57]

As is known by many, 1-13-2008, in the late afternoon, there disappeared a 5 year old child, of gypsy ethnicity, identified as Mari Luz Cortes. The disappearance took place in a suburb [district] of the City of Huelva having occurred when the child left her house to purchase something from a local shop [kiosk] about 150/200 metres from her home.<O></O>
After almost two months, on 07 March...Her body, already a cadaver, came to be found next to a refinery, namely Rio Tinto, on the outskirts of Andaluz de Huelva. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARI_LUZ_CORTES.htm<O></O>


Another is Joana Cipriano, whose mother and uncle are accused and convicted of her murder although her body has never been found. They (Leonor and Joao Cipriani) are in prison until about 2020.

I think Leonor is innocent of the charges, but the PJ, with Gonçales Amaral in charge beat a confession out of her. She said at the trial that she didn't remember confessing, but had been questioned for about 48 hours with 2 hours sleep in there. This is a pic of her face after she got cleaned up. http://prairiechicken.blogspot.com/2013/10/uploading-photo-of-leonor-capriano.html After the beating, the team "dropped" her back off at the jail and the female warden took her to the hospital. She was covered with bruises all over her body. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id176.html


In fact, this is the case that Amaral was convicted for--for falsifying documents when he signed off on the story that Leonor had thrown herself down a flight of stairs after confessing.

OMG your serious right.

Mari Luz Cortes killer was found I believe she knew him, and here we go again Cipriano and her brother (who also confessed to the childs death) killed her because Cipriano was having an incestuous relationship with her BROTHER.

Amaral was not a lead detective to this case.

AND ONCE AGAIN blah blah blah :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

SHE LIED .... she never was beaten by the officers and they have been VINDICATED.....

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html

IF your going to spout cases at least make sure they are correct.

 

[goldengirl57]

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/10/pj-searches-for-maddies-body-again.html

so they are searching for the childs body and one of the reasons why the case was opened again..............

 

[Inana]

OMG your serious right.

Mari Luz Cortes killer was found I believe she knew him, and here we go again Cipriano and her brother (who also confessed to the childs death) killed her because Cipriano was having an incestuous relationship with her BROTHER.

Amaral was not a lead detective to this case.

AND ONCE AGAIN blah blah blah

SHE LIED .... she never was beaten by the officers and they have been VINDICATED.....

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html

IF your going to spout cases at least make sure they are correct.

The original question was, "were there any other kidnapped children."

I believe both of these children were kidnapped. Yes, Mari was kidnapped before she was killed.

And I believe Joana was kidnapped, not murdered. And there is nothing to Joao and Leonor having an incestuous relationship. That was Amaral & Co sick theory. Might as well have been a satanic cult, or kinky sex games gone wrong. Silly. Please read the link I provided with my post. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id176.html

Joana Morias is a biased source.

[modsnip]

 

[Estelle]

Another is Joana Cipriano, whose mother and uncle are accused and convicted of her murder although her body has never been found. They (Leonor and Joao Cipriani) are in prison until about 2020.

I think Leonor is innocent of the charges, but the PJ, with Gonçales Amaral in charge beat a confession out of her. She said at the trial that she didn't remember confessing, but had been questioned for about 48 hours with 2 hours sleep in there. This is a pic of her face after she got cleaned up. http://prairiechicken.blogspot.com/2013/10/uploading-photo-of-leonor-capriano.html After the beating, the team "dropped" her back off at the jail and the female warden took her to the hospital. She was covered with bruises all over her body. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id176.html

In fact, this is the case that Amaral was convicted for--for falsifying documents when he signed off on the story that Leonor had thrown herself down a flight of stairs after confessing.

[modsnip]

referred to this link before posting:

Allegations of police misconduct

Though Leonor Cipriano confessed to killing her daughter, it was only after nearly 48 hours of continuous interrogation, and she retracted her confession the next day, claiming she had been beaten. She had extensive bruising after the interrogation, which the police claimed came about when she threw herself down the stairs.

Since then Gonçalo Amaral and four other Portuguese police officers have been charged with offences.

"Mr. Amaral was not even present at the time of her alleged beating but is accused of covering up for his colleagues, which he strenuously denies." Leonor Cipriano's former lawyer said that Leonor does not know who beat her up.

Murder of Joana Cipriano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Estelle]

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/10/pj-searches-for-maddies-body-again.html

so they are searching for the childs body and one of the reasons why the case was opened again..............

PJ SEARCHES FOR MADDIE'S BODY AGAIN
29 OCTOBER 2013

1. Judiciary Police tries to find Madeleine's body.
2. Sniffer dogs had detected 'cadaver scent' in the car rented by Kate and Gerry
3. Hypothesis of homicide is investigated by the authorities.
4. The thesis of homicide integrates the framework of a kidnapping for reasons connected to paedophilia.
5. The inspectors in charge of the case have for that matter presented evidence supporting this hypothesis to the Public Ministry
6. Shortly after the disappearance of Madeleine, the PJ took steps to try to find the cadaver, but those proved fruitless.
7. Inspectors received at the time several false leads about the possible location of the girl's corpse.
8. The Judiciary Police also heard several witnesses and returned to the village of Praia da Luz.
9. There, the inspectors took the opportunity to check the location of mobile phone masts.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/10/pj-searches-for-maddies-body-again.html

As the McCanns car is mentioned, IMO Maddie knew her abductor and maybe he was a pedophile as well!

IMO the telephone tracking is all about narrowing down the search area.

 

[Estelle]

The original question was, "were there any other kidnapped children."

I believe both of these children were kidnapped. Yes, Mari was kidnapped before she was killed.

And I believe Joana was kidnapped, not murdered. And there is nothing to Joao and Leonor having an incestuous relationship. That was Amaral & Co sick theory. Might as well have been a satanic cult, or kinky sex games gone wrong. Silly. Please read the link I provided with my post. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id176.html

Joana Morias is a biased source.

[modsnip]

BOTH THESE GIRLS WERE MURDERED and THEIR MURDERERS ARE NOW IN PRISON

Joana Morais is a very reliable Portuguese source for the truth about what happened to Maddie without spin.

Unlike the UK tabloids, she does not phone Clarence Mitchell first to get his spin before she publishes as the UK media do as they are too frightened to tell the truth iin case they are Carter Rucked!

I think you might have been brainwashed on the Pro-McCann sites!

 

[Inana]

Another suspicious person report:

Lance Richard Purser was interviewed, he lives in the Praia da Luz area and recalls having seen, two weeks earlier, an individual aged about 35/40, slim, about 1.70, who would normally wear dark clothes, denim shirt and jeans, dark hair, straight and messy which reached his neck, however it was not long hair. He had a rustic appearance, dark skin, as if aged by the sun, and dark eyes. He says that he saw this individual more then once along the road leading to Praia da Luz, as well as close to a pharmacy in Rua Helena do Nascimento Baptista in Praia da Luz. Each time he saw him the man was alone, he did not notice any vehicles or companions. A photo fit was drawn up based upon this description. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

 

[Inana]

Another suspicious incident. I may have posted this before. Sorry if repeated.
Graham Mackenzie Occupation : Company partner Statement date: 06-12-2007

We didn't have involvement with their group for the remainder of our holiday and flew home on the Saturday (May 5). On the day of our departure we had to move out of our apartment and Mark Warner gave us another to use during the day until we left.<O></O>

It was across the road from the McCann's apartment and the public balcony overlooked the side of their building and the road. You could actually see the front and back of the building from that view point. I noticed on the balcony that there was a pile of cigarette butts as if there had been someone stood there for some time smoking. I thought that was odd , and it could have been someone watching the McCann's apartment to monitor their comings and goings. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm <O></O>

 

[Estelle]

Reference: Gente Magazine 21 to 27/10/2013 Page 42 to Page 45

Goncalo Amaral tells how the Maddie case has affected his family life

He is worried about his youngest child

How did you react to the news that the English Police are investigating new leads?

Calmly and with tranquillity. I know what this is about, what the parties want by putting out this news, but anybody who has followed the case through the years, will be able to discern the trashy publicity and what is really at stake. Also, the purpose of this is to put the pressure on the Portuguese courts.

Are there changes in the case?

There are no changes, there is nothing new, it’s continuing as was in 2008 when it was filed away. The parties involved in the civil action seem to be very creative, so that is why we need to wait for a bolt of their creativity and imagination.

In the libel civil court case brought by the McCanns, they are asking you for 1.2 million Euros

The reason behind this case is that offence was taken on an opinion, which was unthinkable of in a Democratic and free Portugal post the 25th of April revolution. In truth, there are no facts that support the demand for a pay-out based on libel. The people that brought this action want to make it known that I and those that worked alongside me, Portuguese and English Police, as communicated in the book and documentary placed the search for Maddie in jeopardy as well as cause them psychological damages. This theory however fails on several levels.

Are you unhappy with the progress of the case?

My sensible nature doesn’t allow me to jump to conclusions, I will wait for the courts’ decision with calmness and tranquility. However, the publicity and disinformation campaign, the intoxication along the way, by the parties who have initiated this case, seems to indicate that they are not happy with the progress of the case because they are trying to influence the final result.
It was noted that the McCann friends who dined with them, the night Maddie disappeared that night, were not present in court.

Perhaps it’s a strategy on their part, but their absence did not go amiss. At the end of the day, who better than those that holidayed with the McCanns, throughout the years, and were house friends prior to the 3rd of May 2007, to give evidence about the “before and after” effect of the case on their lives.

 

[Estelle]

From Amaral:

Any witnesses important to your defense?

It was important to unmask the Psychologist in court by discovering that he merely has a degree in Social Sciences, and did one Psychology subject, meaning, that he isn&#8217;t a psychologist and isn&#8217;t qualified to assess the case. Equally important was the testimony of my colleagues who worked with me on this missing case. They remembered an interview the McCanns gave to a weekly Portuguese magazine in September 2008, a month after the book was published, where they devalued its content, and said they would not sue me for it. Such is life.

We were subject to the biggest slur on us personally and professionally, it was a shameful and vile the campaign against us.

Did you request the case be heard behind closed doors?

It&#8217;s true, we wanted to avoid what is happening.Judgements in the public arena, disinformation campaigns, obsessions and how it impacts negatively on the decision of the court which needs to be free, objective and based on law.

When you were heading the investigation did you feel pressure?

During the investigation all our work was under the microscope, and we were subject to personal and professional insults. It was shameful. The book, Maddie the truth of the lie, covers the first six months of the investigation. The case was closed in 2008. It&#8217;s normal for an investigation to have advances and setbacks, having a beginning, middle and an end. Therefore, it cannot be said that the case was finalised or that the evidence that existed at the end of September 2007, led to a different conclusion or was set aside.

What was your impression of the McCann couple after you met them?

Besides the mother of the child&#8217;s expectation that tea should be served, and the father acting totally disinterested in anything but the theory of an abduction, I remember that in his phone calls to England, he always referred to an abduction by a paedophile ring. It could have been a mere idea, but instead it was an obsession.

 

[Estelle]

From Amaral:

What is the motive that Kate didn’t answer more than 40 questions?

When they she became an Arguido she was entitled to that right and she used it. Answering the questions may have been the duty of a mother, a duty of a mother who was worried about her child’s disappearance, answering the questions without fear no matter how sensitive they may have been to her.

What type of sentiments do the McCanns hold for you?

In my opinion, they are very bitter and vindictive. Not only towards me, but to all those that have their own opinions which differ to theirs; and to people who won’t allow themselves to be influenced by their media campaign.

Would you have liked to have found their child?

We did everything to solve this case. The people who brought this civil case against me, are only worried about themselves, with their image, what happens today. I remember the mother’s words on finding out she was being charged, “What will the press say?” and “What will my parents think?”

From the mouth of the people who brought this civil action, they never had any appreciation for the policemen that worked on this case. Men and women that neglected their families, far from home, while searching for their missing child. The only thing I heard, once the case was closed, was they would sue the Police. However, they ended up suing one of the Investigators, the one that publically, in my right to defend myself, made known what had happened in the first months of the criminal investigation.

 

[Estelle]

From Amaral:

Six years of survival

Since the Madeleine McCann case began, he saw his life turned upside down. He was forced to retire early, divorced, moved to Lisbon far from his child, Ines, lost his father with whom he shared a house, fell ill, lost weight……Were they difficult times?

This question described everything that happened, except my mother’s death in 2009 after a long illness. At the time, internet sites which supported the people who are suing me, accused me in a cowardly way of having murdered my mother. They even detailed the manner with which I murdered her.

There are people that cannot maintain objectivity, who can’t analyse the case without linking those involved. If they could analyse by merely focusing on the fact that there is a missing child, the circumstances that the child disappeared under, they would not feel the need to abuse and insult people that were merely doing their jobs. With regards to my private life, these six years were a fight for my physical, mental and emotional survival. It has forced me to establish a new life, with ideas and projects for the future, separating situations. My life will run alongside this case, but it will not cross or be influenced by it, which is not easy, but which I think I have found a way.

 

[Estelle]

From Amaral:

Have you found yourself feeling defeated or depressed?

Luckily I don’t know what it is like to feel depressed and the need to give up or feel defeated are not in my nature.

You won your action against the pulping of the Truth of the lie. Have they returned your books?

The books have been returned to my Editor but I haven’t been reimbursed for them. There still hangs over me actions by the people that initiated this case (McCanns)

Any work or books in the offing?

I have a manuscript entitled, Madeleine: Unfinished investigation. I haven’t as yet looked for a publisher. I am also writing another book regarding my work investigating violent and organised crime. It will concentrate on the method of investigation.

What will happen after the court decision?

My expectations are to continue with my life, help those close to me, to serve Portuguese Society, once the case is finalised. My daughter, Ines, says there are lots of children and young adults who need healthy lives, authors of their own lives, and to be happy.

Amaral considers suing McCanns for impact on his child, Ines.

I have been thinking about that possibility, and it’s too early for me to come to a decision. I have to think of my child, Ines, and how the extension of this situation would impact on her.

How have you kept in touch with her?

It has been very difficult, distance doesn’t help, but I have kept in touch with her. Amidst all this, I worry about my child, not so long ago she asked me what is happening with the court case, if I would be arrested. Ines is the same age as Maddie would have been, had she lived, and reacts badly to any information relating to this case. Whenever she hears Maddie’s name, she says she had enough of hearing the name and doesn’t want to hear it anymore. To her there are other children that need the attention, love, care and she is one of them. Her world was rocked when she saw her father being attacked and insulted , even before the publication of this book, she had to leave the house where she was born, the school she belonged to and to live far from her father.

Ines is a victim of the arrogance and lack of common sense of the McCanns, who claim they are Catholics, but as Christians they have little or nothing.

 

[gord]

They thought it was Madeleine, and furthermore they thought the person carrying her was Gerry.

Reference to the sighting in the PJ's 57-page report summary
'Further on this issue, the testimony of MARTIN SMITH was considered, pages 1606 and following, reporting the sighting of an individual carrying a child, in one of the streets that lead to the beach. It was said that the child could be MADELEINE McCANN, although it was never peremptorily stated. Some time later, the witness alleged that, by its stance, the individual who carried the child could be GERALD McCANN, which was concluded when he saw him descending the stairs from an airplane, pages 2871, 3991 and following and 4135 and following.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

That is called "evidence". :seeya:[/quote

That is a huge difference from your earlier post that stated we now know it was a real sighting .

we have no idea if the person Smith saw was an innocent father , the abductor or even Gerry - Smith is not even sure as he never saw his face