Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[gord]

http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm

From what I read there it is not impossible for a carried person to leave a weak airborn scent that a trail dog could pick up. All be it weak

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[Redgoblin]

Could it be even possible that Maddie left the apartment because she was upset or alone, and left of her own free will and got lost, ended up somewhere unfamiliar got kidnapped or fell down a hole.

I believe the first press reports of that time went on about driveways or places where roadworks were being done?

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[haden]

From what I read there it is not impossible for a carried person to leave a weak airborn scent that a trail dog could pick up. All be it weak

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So that means that her freshest scent from midnight May 4th was walking to that car park on her own?

But how?????

 

[Fierljepper]

Could it be even possible that Maddie left the apartment because she was upset or alone, and left of her own free will and got lost, ended up somewhere unfamiliar got kidnapped or fell down a hole.

I believe the first press reports of that time went on about driveways or places where roadworks were being done?

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But why was the window/shutter then open? She didn't climb through the widow did she?

 

[haden]

Could it be even possible that Maddie left the apartment because she was upset or alone, and left of her own free will and got lost, ended up somewhere unfamiliar got kidnapped or fell down a hole.

I believe the first press reports of that time went on about driveways or places where roadworks were being done?

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But who then opened the shutter? And the window? Madeleine wouldn't be able to open that shutter, it has a heavy pull up on the side of the wall. And the window is a sliding window, again hard to open.

It seems the most logical solution from this is that she walked hand in hand with someone..

 

[jigzy]

But it hasn't stopped any speculating in fact it is worse . The case is back on the front page forums going wild . All the old theories back . No this is not a cover up . I do believe that the LE are trying to break this case and find the truth . They might fail and it will simply be it. If this was a true white wash it would not have seen the light of day

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I respectfully disagree; my reasoning is in my post.

No point wallpapering over the cracks, as the old saying goes... The cracks will keep appearing. I think that a big spectacular ending to this is required. Do you remember when Princess Diana died, the public were outraged at the Queen's reluctance to shed a tear for her, despite her Majesty not having to actually prove herself to anyone as head of her subjects. I stood in The Mall near Buckingham Palace in disbelief at the crowds and the flowers at the gates of Kensington Palace - totally surreal. It all felt a little too close to the Palace for comfort, all the love for Diana, talk of her being bumped off, etc. Turns out public pressure was such that the Queen DID actually bow her head/curtesy as Diana's coffin went past - a very public gesture to 'give them what they want' and get them to back off.

In this case, give them what they want - answers (the truth or not, whatever) - and they'll go away. 'Them' being the questioners/demanders, of course.

Jmo.

 

[Fierljepper]

In the mean time I got myself my first ban ever on an Internet forum and it happened at "The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann". They clearly don't like to hear about abduction theories and I got attacked quite fiercely and on my person. Apparently the dominant logic over there is that 1) The McCanns did it and 2) If not, then see rule number 1).

I got the feeling I was 'cursing in a church' and it actually felt pretty unpleasant and even a bit scary. Anyway, have now been expelled... :scared:

 

[haden]

In the mean time I got myself my first ban ever on an Internet forum and it happened at "The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann". They clearly don't like to hear about abduction theories and I got attacked quite fiercely and on my person. Apparently the dominant logic over there is that 1) The McCanns did it and 2) If not, then see rule number 1).

I got the feeling I was 'cursing in a church' and it actually felt pretty unpleasant and even a bit scary. Anyway, have now been expelled... :scared:

Oh, don't worry abut that.. it happened to me at 3 arguidos :floorlaugh: which is the same sort.

Anyway, what do you think if Madeleine was in a pushchair? Would her scent be left near the ground? Would the tracking dogs pick it up?

In some pushchairs, especially if it was too small for her, her feet would be almost touching the ground?

 

[jigzy]

But why was the window/shutter then open? She didn't climb through the widow did she?

Because one/some of the Tapas 9 jemmied it, oh no they didn't, oh yes they did, oh no they didn't.....

 

[Fierljepper]

Oh, don't worry abut that.. it happened to me at 3 arguidos :floorlaugh: which is the same sort.

Anyway, what do you think if Madeleine was in a pushchair? Would her scent be left near the ground? Would the tracking dogs pick it up?

Thanks for the re-assuring words, Haden. :loveyou: Makes me feel a bit better already; it just has never happened to me before.

The wheelchair or stroller/buggy could be interesting, but I would like to understand better what does sniffer dogs actually 'snif'. Walking is apparently ok, but then what do they sniff, the footprints you leave behind or is it the scent just above the ground? Getting some insight in how high up you have be to still be able to smell the traces of a moving human being, would be helpful.

 

[Redgoblin]

I suppose you could walk a person around if they were in an intoxicated state, maybe to try and revive them or get them to walk, I'm not sure that would apply to a child

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[haden]

Thanks for the re-assuring words, Haden. :loveyou: Makes me feel a bit better already; it just has never happened to me before.

The wheelchair or stroller/buggy could be interesting, but I would like to understand better what does sniffer dogs actually 'snif'. Walking is apparently ok, but then what do they sniff, the footprints you leave behind or is it the scent just above the ground? Getting some insight in how high up you have be to still be able to smell the traces of a moving human being, would be helpful.

It is better not to mix up with that kind of people.. back in 2009 it made me cry sometimes about how unfair, bullying, crazy and rude people can be..

It kind of attacks your good aura.. you need a bath after contact with such individuals.

Re pushchar.. it is impossible for me to find out how the dogs would react, unless there is an answer from a real dog handler or someone testing this theory.

So where we got tonight is that Madeleine on her 'last walk' either walkedr on her own to the car park, or was holding someone's hand to the car park or maybe maybe was in some kind of a pushchair where her feet were touching the ground, again taken to the car park.

All this if we are to trust these 4 dogs.

 

[Inana]

Agree. The route around the block of the dogs is strange. If this was a planned pedophile abduction, an abductor would never take the risk of going around the block. Also, the McCanns would not have taken that route (certainly not in the evening, why would you). However, if this is a one-man's job, he/she had to watch the movements of the family and hence needed his car in that specific car park (that oversees everything). So, walking into 5A via the patio is easy and maybe the window was opened as a precaution to avoid becoming trapped in the room (or to suggest a kidnap). But his return route is much more risky esp now with a child in the arms. Just turning right is risky since you can't check what's around the corner, so going around the block and ending up already down hill, allows you to check whether the coast is clear and then make a rush to the car.

Just my thinking.

It seems like I read that the route the GNR dogs took was a path taken one or two days before when Gerry walked with Madeleine and they went out the front door, down the walkway to the left to visit which ever couple was next door. That door and the next one down (another couple) opened to a walkway through the building, which took them to the sidewalk that separated the building from the pool area. Please don't ask for a link, I read it long ago.

 

[haden]

It seems like I read that the route the GNR dogs took was a path taken one or two days before when Gerry walked with Madeleine and they went out the front door, down the walkway to the left to visit which ever couple was next door. That door and the next one down (another couple) opened to a walkway through the building, which took them to the sidewalk that separated the building from the pool area. Please don't ask for a link, I read it long ago.

I heard people saying this but never seen a link. Might be a myth.
And might be they never investigated it because they believed Jane Tanner's sighting and this was completely out of picture !

But Amaral, Amaral.. as a good policeman, this should have been the first thing he looked at! He had his dogs giving him a trail in first 24 hours!!!!. Why he never found out who parked there in that parking area and interviewed everyone who parked there :banghead::banghead:

 

[jigzy]

It is better not to mix up with that kind of people.. back in 2009 it made me cry sometimes about how unfair, bullying, crazy and rude people can be..

It kind of attacks your good aura.. you need a bath after contact with such individuals.

Re pushchar.. it is impossible for me to find out how the dogs would react, unless there is an answer from a real dog handler or someone testing this theory.

So where we got tonight is that Madeleine on her 'last walk' either walkedr on her own to the car park, or was holding someone's hand to the car park or maybe maybe was in some kind of a pushchair where her feet were touching the ground, again taken to the car park.

All this if we are to trust these 4 dogs.

Indeed. Why trust the scent dogs who were given a towel/blanket, that could have belonged to anyone, not necessarily Madeleine McCann, to track? So these dogs are reliable but not Eddie and Keela?

Not being argumentative - just saying....

Jmo

 

[jigzy]

I heard people saying this but never seen a link. Might be a myth.
And might be they never investigated it because they believed Jane Tanner's sighting and this was completely out of picture !

But Amaral, Amaral.. as a good policeman, this should have been the first thing he looked at! He had his dogs giving him a trail in first 24 hours!!!!. Why he never found out who parked there in that parking area and interviewed everyone who parked there :banghead::banghead:

You can bang your head all you like, but I guess Amaral was too busy being put off the scent by certain members of the Tapas 9. He went thattaway! The scent could have been anyone's; the towel/blanket's scent had certainly been compromised by then by the scores of people the McCanns allowed in to destroy the crime scene from where they say they KNEW their child had been 'abducted'.

Jmo

 

[haden]

Indeed. Why trust the scent dogs who were given a towel/blanket, that could have belonged to anyone, not necessarily Madeleine McCann, to track? So these dogs are reliable but not Eddie and Keela?

Not being argumentative - just saying....

Jmo

Dogs are just markers. They are used to help. It is important to investigate what the dogs are pointing at.
Keela and Eddie's findings were investigated.

These dogs findings were not investigated.

 

[haden]

You can bang your head all you like, but I guess Amaral was too busy being put off the scent by certain members of the Tapas 9. He went thattaway! The scent could have been anyone's; the towel/blanket's scent had certainly been compromised by then by the scores of people the McCanns allowed in to destroy the crime scene from where they say they KNEW their child had been 'abducted'.

Jmo

None of these people went to a car park and drove away as these dogs indicated.

And I don't believe the McCanns would give the dog handlers the wrong piece of clothing.

 

[jigzy]

Dogs are just markers. They are used to help. It is important to investigate what the dogs are pointing at.
Keela and Eddie's findings were investigated.

These dogs findings were not investigated.

I guess it was a case of:

Sniffer dogs track scent of person (unknown if Madeleine or not) around the block where she was staying = yes, she was here and she would have walked around the area during her stay, but this scent may not be hers because of the contaminated stuff inside the apartment, and hey, Tanner says she saw the guy go thattaway so let's focus on a child being carried not wandering around lost leaving a scent.

and

Cadaver and blood dog = OMG discovery inside the apartment where the family were staying yet no previous dead people there.

Although months apart, I know which one would get my attention. Jmo.

 

[Inana]

From what I read there it is not impossible for a carried person to leave a weak airborn scent that a trail dog could pick up. All be it weak

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I remember in the Scott/Lacy Peterson case a tracker dog followed Lacy's scent from the home in Modesto all the way to the Marina where she was later found, and she had to have been in the back of his pickup or in his boat. IIRC it was about 50 miles. Dogs can do incredible things within their capacity.