Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[goldengirl57]

In the mean time I got myself my first ban ever on an Internet forum and it happened at "The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann". They clearly don't like to hear about abduction theories and I got attacked quite fiercely and on my person. Apparently the dominant logic over there is that 1) The McCanns did it and 2) If not, then see rule number 1).

I got the feeling I was 'cursing in a church' and it actually felt pretty unpleasant and even a bit scary. Anyway, have now been expelled... :scared:

LOL I nearly did, my post was removed....eeeeekkk lol. So I am just keeping my head down now and reading the stuff for snippets.

Some of them are awful on there, but some are pretty good posters who know how to get around being banned.

So you have to keep your head down.:truce:

 

[goldengirl57]

MORE INFORMATION ABOUT TRACTOR MAN:

( TABLOID ALERT!)
Google translation from Portuguese CdeM
Research : Judicial Police looking corpse child
Suspect in abduction of Maddie pardoned
Jorge Sampaio forgave expulsion immigrant who may then have abducted Maddie .

The Cape Verdean immigrant who is suspected of having kidnapped Maddie received a pardon from the President of the Republic , Jorge Sampaio , and was not expelled from the country in 1996 , as determined justice .

The man , who was then 26, was indicted in a case of theft . The additional penalty would be expulsion from our country to your home country : Cape Verde . Around Christmas and then as was normal in the 90's , the then President of the Republic chose a number of citizens who have just benefited from judicial pardons .

According to the CM found the immigrant was then to Lagos , where he eventually build their lives with his wife , a Portuguese national . In 2007 , around the time of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann , the man had been fired from the restaurant at Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz had motive for the abduction and means to do so. He knew that the girl's parents and friends dined late , even knew the routines " lookout " to rooms .
Police still believe that although the goal was never to kill Maddie , the truth is that something may have escaped the control of the suspect . Scared all the media attention the case , you may have been forced to ' silence ' the child . The Judiciary is trying to figure out what will be done to the corpse .

The death of this man , in 2009 in a tractor accident , now comes shuffling research . It is only recently that the track was then after your phone has been located near the village at the time of the abduction . The antennas aware of its location next to the apartment. The PJ has heard the family to understand the behavior of the suspect in the days immediately following . Also try to understand the places that have been and where you have hidden the child , then three years.
......................................................................................

The most important thing for this to work really is when was he SACKED?

The McCanns were only in the resort a week and the child was snatched or died etc on the 6th day I believe. You can discount the first night they arrived, which left just a few nights to get the feel of routines etc...and would depend on whether he worked during the day shift or night shift.

[modsnip]......He was charged with a robbery not child killing....and was pardoned, which for me would show that perhaps friends/family had pleaded for him to be given this pardon, which shows some kind of character. He was obviously a worker not a shirker and this shows surely some kind of character he was looking after his family.

Why was he sacked?

Or was he simply moved on because the restaurant in the winter doesnt need as many workers to keep it running?

Why the McCanns, why not target one of the other children?

White wash comes to mind. Another PATSY.

The thing i find interesting is the McCanns are playing it down, I suppose it doesnt go with their theory she is still alive. Its almost like they dont want her FOUND period...I wonder why that is.

 

[Veidt]

No i dont buy it. Why mention a sighting of GYPSIES FOUR MONTHS PREVIOUSLY to MAY? Thats like the end of December for something happening in May...

He said it was a usual sight to see and not actually in PDL.

I dont get the significance to what he says, its almost like he had to mention GYPSY....

As to work colleague. Hardly. My husband works in maintenance and knows everyone. YOu have to as you might be handing over stuff that needs to be done on a particular shift........

No sorry just find it odd that he would even REMEMBER seeing a few gypsy men FOUR MONTHS prior....but I respect your views.

Maybe it was prejudice that led to him saying that? If he's prejudiced against Roma people he may have thought he was being helpful by telling the police about the sighting he had months earlier.

Would also be a totally normal sight to see at any time of the day, so wouldnt even be odd if seen hanging around later in the evening with a bag...etc.....

Snipped by me. Do you have any sources about the dogs barking at the upstairs area? When did its last occupants leave?

I think a maintenance person could be possible but I believe they ruled out current maintenance workers. A former worker would be possible but IMO they would have had a harder time getting in. I say this because a former employee would have less access to everywhere, maybe with the help of an unwitting former colleague who didn't know they had been fired but otherwise, it would be harder for them to get the keys. IMO workers don't have their own copies of keys to get everywhere, if they have any copies they probably have to hand them in. Regarding the person or people who were fired around this time, how far ahead did they know they were getting fired? Which keys would they have had access to in order to have copies of them?

I also saw someone argue that the maintenance worker theory and a scenario where Maddie walked out with the abductor fit together but I disagree. I do think it's possible that a kid that age would trust a stranger (especially if the McCanns had never really bothered to teach her to never go anywhere with strangers). BUT I wouldn't count a worker as someone she knew, even the people who fixed the blinds, unless she had a very good memory for faces and wasn't aware the work had been finished at all.

If Maddie walked alongside her abductor (and assuming she didn't cry or anything but simply wasn't heard) and it was someone outside of the McCanns or their friends, I think it would have to be someone she knew otherwise. I can also see something where a stranger shows up and tells Maddie he or she is there to take her to her parents, maybe that something happened to them, that it's fine to leave the twins there because they'll be nearby... who knows. Someone like that would have to know enough of English to get the point across to a child - adults can understand what someone who doesn't speak English very well is saying because they can make educated guesses, but a sleepy young child... probably not. IMO of course but I think it's something to consider when looking into possible culprits outside the McCanns and the Tapas 9.

:twocents:

 

[hoshizora]

Why would someone ( abductor ) walk around stashing and moving and finally leave with a body?

Not buying it... Only people with a motive to stash & remove a deceased child from the apartment was the McCanns. IMO


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Yeah this is starting to give me JonBenet vibes.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Because the McCanns did not come out of it smelling of roses. There was still a whiff of disbelief; proof right here on various fora, still debating the dogs, leaving children alone, abductor theory versus the parents dunnit, big cover up involving those in high authority. Still we don't shut up and move on to other crimes to armchair sleuth. The deeper we look the closer we get to bringing others down too, and THAT has to be stopped.

The McCanns, and those entwined in this sorry mess, will never really be able to move on with their lives unless there is closure, even if it does mean that the fund dries up when there is no longer the need to LOOK for Madeleine (not as if that happened anyway) as it will probably be revealed that the body will have been dumped at sea, or some other unrecoverable place.

Everyone is saying the right stuff: we are looking for an alive Madeleine, the parents are totally not involved, blah, blah. Then lo and behold Tractorman is the nasty guy whodunit, and he's dead so cannot tell. Closure...move on and write a book about it.

Jmo.

Odd, I haven't read anyone state they want closure , "move on, write a book about it".
People want the child found...... Deceased or alive....found.

 

[goldengirl57]

Maybe it was prejudice that led to him saying that? If he's prejudiced against Roma people he may have thought he was being helpful by telling the police about the sighting he had months earlier.



Snipped by me. Do you have any sources about the dogs barking at the upstairs area? When did its last occupants leave?

I think a maintenance person could be possible but I believe they ruled out current maintenance workers. A former worker would be possible but IMO they would have had a harder time getting in. I say this because a former employee would have less access to everywhere, maybe with the help of an unwitting former colleague who didn't know they had been fired but otherwise, it would be harder for them to get the keys. IMO workers don't have their own copies of keys to get everywhere, if they have any copies they probably have to hand them in. Regarding the person or people who were fired around this time, how far ahead did they know they were getting fired? Which keys would they have had access to in order to have copies of them?

I also saw someone argue that the maintenance worker theory and a scenario where Maddie walked out with the abductor fit together but I disagree. I do think it's possible that a kid that age would trust a stranger (especially if the McCanns had never really bothered to teach her to never go anywhere with strangers). BUT I wouldn't count a worker as someone she knew, even the people who fixed the blinds, unless she had a very good memory for faces and wasn't aware the work had been finished at all.

If Maddie walked alongside her abductor (and assuming she didn't cry or anything but simply wasn't heard) and it was someone outside of the McCanns or their friends, I think it would have to be someone she knew otherwise. I can also see something where a stranger shows up and tells Maddie he or she is there to take her to her parents, maybe that something happened to them, that it's fine to leave the twins there because they'll be nearby... who knows. Someone like that would have to know enough of English to get the point across to a child - adults can understand what someone who doesn't speak English very well is saying because they can make educated guesses, but a sleepy young child... probably not. IMO of course but I think it's something to consider when looking into possible culprits outside the McCanns and the Tapas 9.

:twocents:

No you make good points, its just a theory like anyones, but for me if it was an abduction someone like a maintenance man will have all the access they want, and would know where to hide someone.

The dogs indicating to the apartment above is in the files. It was totally DISMISSED on most forums as there was rotten food found in the fridge so of course the highly trained dogs were smelling that.

BUT i have always found this very interesting. Where do you hide a child in full view.

YOu move to an empty apartment. At the time no one was thinking it was abduction they thought the child had wondered off....

Its the dogs again lol...

I have to get up now, then i will try and find the file it was mentioned official file I mean.

 

[hoshizora]

I think the maintenance worker is a possible theory, but that doesn't really explain the McCann's lack of co-operation with the investigation and the hits from the cadaver dogs. An intruder wouldn't stash a body behind the couch and then in the wardrobe, then leave with it so it hasn't been discovered in 6 years.

Also the fact that there was no evidence of a maintenance worker (such as clothing fibres matching their uniforms found on areas of interest such as her bed or cuddle cat)

 

[CHERIE.T]

< respectfully snipped for relevance >


"Friends of the McCanns' friends contacted the media in the UK, and by early morning they were carrying the news. Gerry's sister in Scotland alerted the British Consulate in the Algarve, the British Embassy in Lisbon and the Foreign Office in London."

The British media began their harsh criticisms of the investigation immediately. In October, when Amaral accused the British police of following only the leads that would exonerate the McCann's; Amaral was released from his duties.




No way was evidence planted. IIRC, in July, the dogs gave several alerts in and around the apartment including but not limited to behind the sofa and in the parents' closet. In August, the cadaver dog alerted on the exterior of their rented Renault and inside the boot where the McCann's claimed rotten meat and soiled diapers had been leaking. When tested, it was found to actually be little Maddie's spinal fluid. Let that sink in a minute.

One or both dogs alerted on Maddie's Cuddle Cat, Kate's clothes and her Bible that were confiscated a few days earlier. Yet, Scotland Yard scoffed at these reliable findings.

Meet Keela and Eddie


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/MOXenTtj26E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>​

Madeleines spinal fluid was found in the trunk yet no charges were filed! Right

 

[Pisces Cloud]

I respectfully disagree; my reasoning is in my post.

No point wallpapering over the cracks, as the old saying goes... The cracks will keep appearing. I think that a big spectacular ending to this is required. Do you remember when Princess Diana died, the public were outraged at the Queen's reluctance to shed a tear for her, despite her Majesty not having to actually prove herself to anyone as head of her subjects. I stood in The Mall near Buckingham Palace in disbelief at the crowds and the flowers at the gates of Kensington Palace - totally surreal. It all felt a little too close to the Palace for comfort, all the love for Diana, talk of her being bumped off, etc. Turns out public pressure was such that the Queen DID actually bow her head/curtesy as Diana's coffin went past - a very public gesture to 'give them what they want' and get them to back off.

In this case, give them what they want - answers (the truth or not, whatever) - and they'll go away. 'Them' being the questioners/demanders, of course.

Jmo.

That works both ways. A lot of people are convinced that the McCanns are guilty, even though, that hasn't been proven. I'd imagine that quite a few of them would like them to be humiliated and punished because they think that they are right. This shouldn't be turning into a witch-hunt, either, IMO.

 

[gord]

No the DOGS ARE WRONG remember.

IF they can be trusted to pick up a scent from outside where lots of people have walked, then how come they cant be trusted to scent a cadaver blood in the apartment etc.

The are BOTH dogs trained to pick up certain scents and obviously seem to be reliable in one aspect but not in another........:blushing:

come on in both cases the dogs are indications where to look - the sniffer dog is an indication only - we don't say Ok dog goes that way it must be 100% correct - the police LOOK for further evidence

same with cadaver as the handler always said ALL alerts MUST be backed up by reliable forensics

This has never changed -

 

[gord]

No the DOGS ARE WRONG remember.

IF they can be trusted to pick up a scent from outside where lots of people have walked, then how come they cant be trusted to scent a cadaver blood in the apartment etc.

The are BOTH dogs trained to pick up certain scents and obviously seem to be reliable in one aspect but not in another........:blushing:

come on in both cases the dogs are indications where to look - the sniffer dog is an indication only - we don't say Ok dog goes that way it must be 100% correct - the police LOOK for further evidence

same with cadaver as the handler always said ALL alerts MUST be backed up by reliable forensics

This has never changed -

 

[Pisces Cloud]

It is up to you what to believe but the proof is there, the nearest search to the time of her disappearance and the dogs were following her track on the ground. So far, most probably walking..
But how and why, this is questionable..

For me the more interesting is that the dogs went through the main doors!

Would the door have been locked if opened from the inside? I've been in apartments when you could just open them when in the room, but were locked if tried from the outside. Maybe, an abductor went in through the patio doors and then out of the door with Madeleine.

 

[hoshizora]

Can someone tell me a little about Stephen Birch? Is his theory of Maddie being buried under Murat's driveway based on some kind of evidence, or is it a psychic tip? I'm curious about why this hasn't been looked at and at least put to rest so the investigation can rule that out. I am in the middle about whether to believe it or not.

 

[Estelle]

No i dont buy it. Why mention a sighting of GYPSIES FOUR MONTHS PREVIOUSLY to MAY? Thats like the end of December for something happening in May...

He said it was a usual sight to see and not actually in PDL.

I dont get the significance to what he says, its almost like he had to mention GYPSY....

As to work colleague. Hardly. My husband works in maintenance and knows everyone. YOu have to as you might be handing over stuff that needs to be done on a particular shift........

No sorry just find it odd that he would even REMEMBER seeing a few gypsy men FOUR MONTHS prior....but I respect your views.

I am so suspicious of Team McCann that it is as if one of them asked this guy to mention the word, "Gypsy"! For Gerry and the media, using stereotypes is a great idea!

 

[Estelle]

Can someone tell me a little about Stephen Birch? Is his theory of Maddie being buried under Murat's driveway based on some kind of evidence, or is it a psychic tip? I'm curious about why this hasn't been looked at and at least put to rest so the investigation can rule that out. I am in the middle about whether to believe it or not.

I am sceptical about him. Is he crazy? Is he an attention seeker? Is he trying to get money for this?

If I had been Robert Murat, I would have demanded that the PJ come over and check it out. But they had already done extensive searches with dogs of Murat's house and grounds. So could the dogs detect a body underneath a path?

 

[CHERIE.T]

That works both ways. A lot of people are convinced that the McCanns are guilty, even though, that hasn't been proven. I'd imagine that quite a few of them would like them to be humiliated and punished because they think that they are right. This shouldn't be turning into a witch-hunt, either, IMO.

It's definitely a witch hunt.... a witch hunt everyday right here too.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Can someone tell me a little about Stephen Birch? Is his theory of Maddie being buried under Murat's driveway based on some kind of evidence, or is it a psychic tip? I'm curious about why this hasn't been looked at and at least put to rest so the investigation can rule that out. I am in the middle about whether to believe it or not.

You asked if there was evidence. If there was ......that driveway would have been torn up a long time ago. :moo:

 

[Estelle]

No you make good points, its just a theory like anyones, but for me if it was an abduction someone like a maintenance man will have all the access they want, and would know where to hide someone.

The dogs indicating to the apartment above is in the files. It was totally DISMISSED on most forums as there was rotten food found in the fridge so of course the highly trained dogs were smelling that.

BUT i have always found this very interesting. Where do you hide a child in full view.

YOu move to an empty apartment. At the time no one was thinking it was abduction they thought the child had wondered off....

Its the dogs again lol...

I have to get up now, then i will try and find the file it was mentioned official file I mean.

My theory is that Gerry put the body in the fridge/freezer in the empty apartment of 5J which the sniffer dogs alerted as the fridge door had been left open. He then removed it before the GNR did their searches of all the apartments as he had been warned they were coming.

 

[Estelle]

It's definitely a witch hunt.... a witch hunt everyday right here too.

The problem is that THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE OF AN ABDUCTOR.

OK one sighting - Smiths and 2 E-Fits.

I do not believe the latest reports about TractorMan or MaintenaceMan.

THERE IS A LOT OF CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE AGAINST THE PARENTS.

Just think about it....Why would innocent parents lie in the first place? I cannot trust someone once I know they have lied.

 

[Estelle]

THE PJ ARE SEARCHING FOR THE BODY-WHERE COULD IT BE?

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-find.html