Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[Linda7NJ]

I'm surprised that in the early days they didn't focus more carefully on the sighting of the man carrying the child towards the beach. Why on earth would you carry a sleeping child to the beach at 10pm? Shouldn't that have stood out as suspicious?

Direction of the beach, not the beach. Headed that direction... Most people don't have a compass in their head and many people use landmarks when describing which way someone went.


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[Inana]

this has probably been posted, but I'm not thru reading.

cctv wiped in McCann abduction 10-19-2013
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cctv-madeleine-mccann-snatcher-deleted-2467839

 

[leilarose68]

BBM. This is the part I have a hard time with. Cadaver hit in the apt, yes, it makes perfect sense. Cadaver hit in the Renault, a rental that wasn't in the McCann's possession until well after two weeks from Maddie's disappearance? Where was Maddie during that time? How did someone then retrieve her and get her into the car without being seen? How did they then dispose of her without being seen?

I am aware of the theories that she was kept refrigerated or frozen until being placed in the Renault and then disposed of elsewhere, but in order to believe that, it would be nearly impossible for the Mccanns to pull it off without A LOT of help. They would have had to have access to another apt/house/something with a fridge/freezer. This complicates the scenario greatly. I just have a hard time making this cadaver hit in the Renault work ullhair: IMO MOO

can someone talk a bit more about the church + priest connection? apparently the priest told someone that the mccanns weren't what he thought they were and refused to talk to the police?

 

[aa9511]

the only time when i've seen kate cry, and not just little fake sniffles or a little glimmer in her eye but in a GENUINE way wasn't when she was talking about madeleine... the interviewer was like 'oh this media attention must bring a lot of stress' and kate broke down. and it was real.

so we know that kate is capable of crying and showing genuine emotion, but she only cries for herself, for the fact that she and gerry are going to have to keep up with this lie, this farce, for the rest of their lives.

I hope they have a sex-less, joy-less marriage.

Yes, start throwing the tomatoes. It's how I feel, though.

 

[aa9511]

so you're saying the cadaver dogs are totally incompetent? they picked the mccann's house out of a bunch of other houses. they picked their car out of 6 other cars in the lineup. is it all just a freaky freaky coincidence in your opinion?? you're going to totally dismiss those dogs that have helped to solve 200+ cases?

Yes, he (she?, sorry I don't know) has deemed the dogs worthless. We had a discussion about this a couple of days ago. He said one of the dogs mistook a coconut shell for a skull one time. As someone pointed out, how would the dog know he was supposed to be looking for a skull, and how would he have "seen" that the coconut shell looked like a skull? I tell ya, that's one heckuva dog! Also, how do we know there wasn't microscopic amounts of some animals' blood on that shell?

 

[goldengirl57]

You can stop here...
The previous lead detective on the case has a criminal record i.e. he was charged with a crime in Portugal. I doubt he would ever be allowed in Portugal to work on any other case. Fulstop.
Now the new lead detective on the case thinks she still might be alive

No he wasnt charged with a criminal offence. May I point you to Cipriano case who has been PROVEN to have lied about being beaten by police officers and now is serving more time. SADLY GA and one other officer were given suspended sentences for falsifying documents to try and save their men from being charged for something they never did. Oh and if it wasnt for GA they would never have got this evil women in the first place......:banghead:

 

[aa9511]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/who-four-year-old-blonde-girl-found-2467385

Omigosh, I hope they find her parents!!

 

[aa9511]

You don't count Cadaver as evidence that she died? Maybe not 100% evidence, but very convincing to Police Forces (the dogs were used by British LE)?

I do, I'm afraid.

I wish Eddie was wrong but there is no question as to what he smelt. To this day chills run up my spine when I watch the video.

There should not have been cadaver in the Renault.

If you accept there's a chance the dogs are correct, which common sense dictate we do, then you have to accept there was a cadaver in the Renault 24 days after Madeleine disappeared, also on cuddle cat.

The cadaver on cuddle cat disturbs me the most. It tells me the last time it touched Madeleine, she was already deceased.

:sick:

bbm

But where would they have hidden the body until then?? I am not understanding any of this, nothing adds up! :scared::scared:

 

[goldengirl57]

Her mother and uncle were charged and convicted. Amaral wasn't the one who beat up a confession. He allegedly covered up for his colleague. Sorry I don't find the 2 cases related at all. BTW. I don't worship Amaral. I just want the truth!!

The pro McCanns always bring up this old case.

I wish they would make this a sticky lol....

Goncalo Amaral was ABSOLVED so were all the other officers because Ciprianoa was PROVEN TO HAVE LIED.

So it never happened....

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/04/leonor-cipriano-condemned-to-seven-more.html

ALSO this women was a nasty evil piece of work, she cut up her daughter and probably fed her to the pigs.....she would do anything to cause trouble.

This case was way before Maddy anyway.

 

[redheadedgal]

Also, how do we know there wasn't microscopic amounts of some animals' blood on that shell?

it wasn't coconut: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - do you think maddie is alive or dead


grime's dogs do not alert to animal blood.


:seeya:

 

[Inana]

Well, that's only one of the many samples from the McCanns apartment.

How many would one need?

These are from the wall and floor in and around the sofa, where Keela alerted to a floor tile:

286A/2007-CRL 5A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment<O</O
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result. In my opinion, Fernando Viegas could have contributed DNA to this result.<O</O

286A/2007-CRL 6A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment <O</O
The DNA results obtained through LCN from cellular material present in these combined swabs contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful comparison.

<O</O
286A/2007-CRL 7A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment <O</O
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

<O</O
286A/2007-CRL 8A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The DNA results obtained through LCN from cellular material present in these combined swabs contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful comparison.

<O
286A/2007-CRL 9A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment A<O</On incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a male individual, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result. Also, this result did not match in any way the profile obtained from swabs 286A/2007 CRL 1A & B.

<O</O
286A/2007-CRL 10A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment<O</O
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.
<O</O
286A/2007-CRL 11A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment<O</O
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through LCN from all and any cellular material recovered from these combined swabs was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

<O</O
286A/2007-CRL 12A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment<O></O>
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there is no evidence that supports the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

<O286A/2007-CRL 13A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment<O</O
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through LCN from all and any cellular material recovered from these combined swabs was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.
http://www.justpamalam.co.uk/mpjf/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm<O</O
<O

 

[Inana]

Wednesday August 15 &#8226; Blood traces found in the bedroom where Madeleine was sleeping the night she was snatched were not hers, The Times reports. Forensic results show the blood came from a man, it adds. Neither Eddie nor Keela alerted to this blood on the wall? Why not?
<O
04 Aug 2008<O</O
An email from John Lowe of the Forensic Science Service, on September 3, said the analysis of the samples in the car had proved nothing. <O</O
The message - written to Superintendent Stuart Prior, head of the British part of the investigation and forwarded to the PJ - concluded that there were some elements which matched the little girl's profile. <O</O
But the email, which was translated into Portuguese on September 4, warned that the samples could match huge sections of the population, including himself. <O</O
He said the result was "too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion".<O</O
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500712/Madeleine-McCann-Portuguese-detectives-knew-there-was-no-case-against-parents.html <O</O
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/04/madeleinemccann.portugal <O

 

[Inana]

Wednesday August 15 • Blood traces found in the bedroom where Madeleine was sleeping the night she was snatched were not hers, The Times reports. Forensic results show the blood came from a man, it adds. Neither Eddie nor Keela alerted to this blood on the wall? Why not?
<O

04 Aug 2008<O</O
An email from John Lowe of the Forensic Science Service, on September 3, said the analysis of the samples in the car had proved nothing. <O</O
The message - written to Superintendent Stuart Prior, head of the British part of the investigation and forwarded to the PJ - concluded that there were some elements which matched the little girl's profile.
<O</O
But the email, which was translated into Portuguese on September 4, warned that the samples could match huge sections of the population, including himself.
<O</O
He said the result was "too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion".
<O</O
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500712/Madeleine-McCann-Portuguese-detectives-knew-there-was-no-case-against-parents.html <O</O
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/04/madeleinemccann.portugal

And then there is this: Jamieson notes that across 10 loci, with two alleles per contributor, there are over one million ways to interpret a mixture of two contributors, that is, a mixture of DNA from two people could produce a million possible profiles. http://www.innocencenetwork.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/10.1350.ijep_.2011.15.3.380.pdf<O

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, he (she?, sorry I don't know) has deemed the dogs worthless. We had a discussion about this a couple of days ago. He said one of the dogs mistook a coconut shell for a skull one time. As someone pointed out, how would the dog know he was supposed to be looking for a skull, and how would he have "seen" that the coconut shell looked like a skull? I tell ya, that's one heckuva dog! Also, how do we know there wasn't microscopic amounts of some animals' blood on that shell?

There were human remains found alongside that coconut.


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[Linda7NJ]

bbm

But where would they have hidden the body until then?? I am not understanding any of this, nothing adds up! :scared::scared:

It would be a very tiny body capable of being hid just about anywhere.


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[aa9511]

Well, I'm going to step into this highly polarized case and just add my newbie 2 cents. I'm sure it might be highly irritating for those who have been here a while. I read many of the early documents at the McCann files site. I watched Pierce Morgan. And I got caught up on recent developments. I am not one to play devil's advocate and I don't give much benefit of the doubt on strange behavior. I don't buy the argument that a person doesn't know how they would react in a situation like this--I do think there is a range of behavior and I tend to look for red flags and make judgments.

But I'm not feeling it with the McCanns. They seemed genuine in the Pierce Morgan interview to me. My hinky meter does not go off at all. It also makes sense to me that someone came in and abducted Madeleine.

So, as to a reasonable explanation for how that happened--I'll have to dig deeper and learn more. Maybe you will see my position change over time. But right now from my initial introduction to this case, I feel like I trust the McCanns. I don't know why they would call for a complete review of the whole case file if they were guilty. I would think they would do like I've seen in other cases, try to act like she wandered off or try to just get people to forget the whole case. Pushing for an inquiry seems to me genuine.

I agree with people who say that if the inquiry in the beginning was growing hostile, I can understand fighting back hard with any legal means to put a halt to it, to protect my other children first off. I agree that normally you would say, "Ok look hard at me, let's get this ruled out and move on", but I can imagine in some countries, especially countries with a recent non-democratic history, a foreigner might not be as trusting of local LE.

What is up with the forensic evidence? I think I was reading in a recent Guardian article that the DNA was not incriminating of the McCanns. I'll have to read more about the cadaver dogs and the rental car, though. Anyway, I have a lot to mull over!

Take it for what it's worth, a newcomer's first impressions. MOO.

Hey again, Song22! I am also new here compared to some others who have following this case for...what...6 years now? That is a long time, and I cannot possibly get the breadth of all that information, over such a long time span.

But I have looked at some things.

With regards to their interviews, I would suggest watching a few more on youtube. They have done LOTS. After you watch a few, I think maybe your hinky meter will start going up. Pay close attention to what they look like they like talking about, or at least get a little animated about, and what they look like they don't like talking about. Also pay attention to their body language, you will notice that they sometimes begin to do nervous twitchy-things with their hands or body when talking about Madeleine. And Kate is so thin that you can literally see her chest going up and down rapidly when it approaches an "uncomfortable" topic for her. Sometimes it looks like she's actually having a panic attack inside, but outwardly shows nothing. I'm sure someone could write a whole book on their interviews alone! LOL!

 

[CHERIE.T]

I'm so glad we only have one thread now, all that jumping around is making me dizzy.

:scared:

We have ample "evidence" in this case.

We don't have a body which of course is the ultimate evidence but we do have a British Police dog who has told us she died.

We also have the "scene". Eddie indicated in apartment 5a, so it follows if he indicated in there, she died in there.

The "scene" itself does not jibe with the parents story, no matter which way you look at it.

You can say they were mistaken or they outright lied, either description brings us back to the undeniable fact that the tale they tell of that night cannot have happened the way they described.

Now we have SY appearing to confirm that. Tanner's ever-improving version is completely discounted, which means she is (as she always was) an unreliable witness.

We also have SY confirming that the Smith sighting is not only valid, it's accurate.

The Smiths ID'd Gerry and stand behind that ID to this day. They will testify to their sighting, and further the Gaspars will testify to the hinky sexual stuff they saw.

Now, as far as IDI is concerned -

Can someone please outline an actual tangible IDI theory. How did they do it? No matter how hard I try, there is absolutely no way I can fit IDI into the evidence. Couldn't then, still cant.

:dunno:

Hi? A British police dog told you she died? Really?

 

[goldengirl57]

No, but for example what if she has seen the photos and made known of another lady's case they've actually beaten to confession. By the same team!

<modsnip>

SHE WAS FOUND TO HAVE LIED and all officers have been absolved........:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

She is now serving MORE TIME .....because of this.

Gosh my blood pressure must be up this morning lol.

A.B.S.O.L.V.E.D.....

absolve
&#601;b&#712;z&#594;lv/Submit
verb
past tense: absolved;&#8195;past participle: absolved
1.
declare (someone) free from guilt, obligation, or punishment.
"the pardon absolved them of any crimes"
synonyms: exonerate, discharge, acquit, exculpate, vindicate; More

 

[Inana]

Concerning Amarals guilt:

That is incredibly inaccurate, and wildly off topic.

If Amaral is a "convicted criminal" why didn't he spend any time in jail?

:seeya:

.
Since we are down to one thread, the entire case in on topic.
Amaral is a convicted criminal. His guilt was proven. He was sentenced to 18 month in jail, but it was suspended pending his good behavior. The sentence is still on his record. He was convicted. Is that hard to understand? Maybe I'm not saying it clearly enough.


http://www.theguardian.com/uk/feedarticle/8521559:
McCann detective guilty of perjury<O></O>

Press Association, Friday May 22 2009 <O></O>

The disgraced former Portuguese police chief who previously led the inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance has been convicted of perjury in a separate case.<O></O>

Goncalo Amaral was given an 18-month suspended sentence by a court in Portugal.<O></O>

Clarence Mitchell, a spokesman for Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann, said the couple thought the conviction "speaks for itself" and they would be continuing their legal action for defamation against Amaral.<O></O>

Mr Mitchell said: "While Kate and Gerry McCann will not be commenting on the court's decision, they will be continuing their defamation action against Goncalo Amaral. Today's conviction speaks for itself."<O></O>

The McCanns are taking action over Amaral's "entirely unfounded and grossly defamatory claims" in the media about the case, which included the allegation that Madeleine was dead and that her parents were somehow involved in concealing her body.<O></O>

In the separate case, Amaral was one of five officers of the Policia Judiciara (PJ) in Portimao, Algarve, charged over an alleged attack on the mother of another missing girl.


May I please see a link that says he was NOT convicted?

 

[goldengirl57]

Concerning Amarals guilt:


.
Since we are down to one thread, the entire case in on topic.
Amaral is a convicted criminal. His guilt was proven. He was sentenced to 18 month in jail, but it was suspended pending his good behavior. The sentence is still on his record. He was convicted. Is that hard to understand? Maybe I'm not saying it clearly enough.

NO HE HIS NOT

SHE LIED LIED LIED LIED AND is now doing more time for doing so, all the officers have been ABSOLVED of any guilt incuding Amaral etc.....

PLEASE....its out there......she lied .......... proven GUILTY of doing so by a judge recently......:banghead::banghead::banghead: