Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

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  • #1,321
What claim, the "I don't think"? No, I don't have a link for my thoughts, other than what I've posted. But I think that you will see it makes sense. As your link on rigor mortis states not all bodies ever develop rigor mortis, depending on the conditions. However, that doesn't mean that these bodies won't decompose and won't start to stink.

The smell is caused by the bacteria work.. I am not sure if there is a connection between the bacteria work and rigor mortis.. I can investigate this, but not sure if this would be of any help.. and if this is important..

What I initially thought is that the cadaver scent in children would appear later than in grown ups due to rigor mortis appearing later or not at all.
 
  • #1,322
The smell is caused by the bacteria work.. I am not sure if there is a connection between the bacteria work and rigor mortis.. I can investigate this, but not sure if this would be of any help.. and if this is important..

What I initially thought is that the cadaver scent in children would appear later than in grown ups due to rigor mortis appearing later or not at all.

I don't suppose it's too important but I think the decomposition process starts before rigor mortis sets in and continues for a long time after the rigor has passed. Some bodies never get rigor but the chances are they are rife with bacteria anyway. I think children probably decompose in pretty much the same way as adults but because an infant has a small fraction of the body mass of a large adult there is less to decompose and perhaps a tiny human's decomposition scent might be detectable later and vanish earlier than someone who weighed a lot more. (Just guessing, though.)
 
  • #1,323
I am almost giving up now. I think it is going to be a whitewash by the UK government to protect their elite pedophiles in Parliament just as they did with Jimmy Saville and blame a dead person rather than the McCanns.

only you have zero evidence to support that......ie that govt elite paedos were involved,...conspiracy theory based on nothing....
 
  • #1,324
I do think this dusgruntled employee stealing madeleine to get back at his employers is a bit of a joke at best.....deary me
 
  • #1,325
I didn't say that it had anything to do with you.

Of course everything needs to be investigated but I can think of plenty of reasons for someone to visit a town he used to work at. He could have friends or favorite bars, stores etc. there even after he gets fired or it's just the cheapest place to get gas around there.

I dunno... disgruntled ex-employee theories never made much sense to me as abducting a child is such an indirect and ineffective way of taking revenge against your boss or whoever it was that you think wronged you. It's not the boss or the company who suffers the most, it's an innocent child and her family. The boss might experience some uncomfortable moments at a police interrogation and the company gets a bit of bad press but it will pass and their life will go on much as it did before. In the meantime, you have an extra child in your hands and need to solve the problem what to do with her. How many people are really prepared to murder a child just to cause a few uncomfortable moments but no lasting harm to their ex-boss?
I picture disgruntled ex-employees as more likely to set something on fire, do a nasty graffiti about the boss, steal the company property, throw dirty diapers in the pool or something that has more to do with the people whom you're mad at than a random child.

But I guess we might be talking about someone who is not rational and doesn't make decisions like normal people would.

The thing is if his phone pinged near the Apartment he was talking to someone surely? Talking and carrying a child at the same time.

When did he get chance to take the child and why a child like you said, makes NO SENSE.

He cant answer can he, he is DEAD.

I dont think he had even be working at OC for a whilte before Maddy went missing I mean how long do you keep a grudge going lol...

I mean this guy only lived 15 minutes away from PDL. PDL is actually quite a popular town, it was even on our Holiday in the sun programme a few years back as it is so popular.

Like you say Donjeta he could have been doing anything.

Goodness he must have been insane, if he could abduct a child, kill her bury her, then go back home to his wife as though nothing had happened.

I expect IF she has any thoughts he could have done something she will say.


We shall see. Isnt it a bit like Hewlett who was named as the abductor but he died too.....

Dead cant talk can they.
 
  • #1,326
The thing is if his phone pinged near the Apartment he was talking to someone surely? Talking and carrying a child at the same time.

When did he get chance to take the child and why a child like you said, makes NO SENSE.

He cant answer can he, he is DEAD.

I dont think he had even be working at OC for a whilte before Maddy went missing I mean how long do you keep a grudge going lol...

I mean this guy only lived 15 minutes away from PDL. PDL is actually quite a popular town, it was even on our Holiday in the sun programme a few years back as it is so popular.

Like you say Donjeta he could have been doing anything.

Goodness he must have been insane, if he could abduct a child, kill her bury her, then go back home to his wife as though nothing had happened.

I expect IF she has any thoughts he could have done something she will say.


We shall see. Isnt it a bit like Hewlett who was named as the abductor but he died too.....

Dead cant talk can they.

The phone doesn't need to be used to be pinged. This means that the phone was using that tower.. i.e getting the signal from it.

If this lead was used to make judge believe it is worth to open the case there must be something else to it.. we don't know what the PJ have...

I still don't believe this is the info PJ have to reopen the case, as it has been reported today!

If it is there must be more in it..
 
  • #1,327
This theory of today would be 'a lone abductor' .. the worst case scenario..

I always thought there was at least two people involved.. but lets wait and see..
 
  • #1,328
The phone doesn't need to be used to be pinged. This means that the phone was using that tower.. i.e getting the signal from it.

If this lead was used to make judge believe it is worth to open the case there must be something else to it.. we don't know what the PJ have...

I still don't believe this is the info PJ have to reopen the case, as it has been reported today!

If it is there must be more in it..

If there happened to be an ex-employee who was a known child molester... it would make sense, not in the disgruntled-and-looking-to-settle-a-score-with-former-employer kind of way but in the knows-his-way-around-and-has-keys kind of way.
 
  • #1,329
The BBC has faced criticism for casting a 🤬🤬🤬🤬 star in the Crimewatch reconstruction of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

Mark Sloan, who has starred in a number of X-rated films including Tight Rider and Sherlock Bones, was cast as one of the friends who dined with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night Madeleine went missing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...mccann-crimewatch-reconstruction-8908816.html

How much 🤬🤬🤬🤬 do you think one has to watch in order to recognize the star of Sherlock Bones fully dressed in that brief glimpse?
 
  • #1,330
FOOD FOR THOUGHT

With credit to Tony Bennet:

The 17 similarities between the original descriptions given by Jane Tanner and the Smiths, both in May 2007. These were:

1. An unaccompanied male
2. Carrying a child and having no push-chair
3. The child was blonde
4. The child was a girl
5. The child was barefoot
6. The child was wearing light-coloured/pink pyjamas
7. She looked about four years old
8. She was being held on the man’s left side
9. She didn’t have a blanket or other covering
10. The men did not look like tourists
11. They were wearing a dark jacket
12. They were wearing light-coloured trousers
13. They were both about 1.75m to 1.8m tall (5’ 9” – 5’ 10”)
14. They were both aged 35-40
15. They were of average build
16. They were spotted within 600 yards of each other
17. In neither case could the man’s face be seen.

What could account for these remarkable 17 similarities – now that Redwood has told us the truth about Tannerman/crecheman?

1. Crecheman and Smithman are one and the same - he had to walk a very long way back home from the crèche.

OR

2. There were two virtually identical men with virtually identical clothes each taking their virtually identical children somewhere – just one of those amazing coincidences.

OR

3. Both Jane Tanner and Martin Smith were in collusion and working to a script and neither actually saw anyone.

OR

4. Some other reason.

5. Gerald McCann knew he was seen by Smiths, so he told Tanner to invent a fake sighting of a similar looking man in the moment when McCann had an iron clad alibi, because he was talking with Wilkins.
 
  • #1,331
  • #1,332
From the Mirror, so I'm still waiting for confirmation.
Take with a grain of salt.

Madeleine McCann 'kidnapper' was 'hotel worker who snatched her after being sacked then DIED in tractor accident'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-kidnapper-hotel-worker-2655757


We already discussed this on previous page.

The source of this story is CdM, equivalent of Daily Star in the UK but the actual journalist ( among a group who wrote this article) is the guy called Damaso who is actually Amaral's witness, so someone from Amaral's side.

I don't believe this info is leaked by the PJ, as the new team is highly professional, and they haven't leaked anything in past few months while quietly working on the case.

It might be someone from the phone company that leaked it, or the widow or someone close to her..
 
  • #1,333
Rigor mortis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the time of death, a condition called "primary flaccidity" occurs. Following this, the muscles stiffen in rigor mortis. All muscles in the body are affected. Starting between two and six hours following death, rigor mortis begins with the eyelids, neck, and jaw. The sequence may be due to different lactic acid levels among different muscles, which is directly related to the difference in glycogen levels and different types of muscle fibers. Rigor mortis then spreads to the other muscles within the next four to six hours, including the internal organs. The onset of rigor mortis is affected by the individual's age, sex, physical condition, and muscular build. Rigor mortis may not be perceivable in many infant and child corpses due to their smaller muscle mass.[5].[5]

What rigor mortis has to do with the cadaver odour which is the result of the decomp, starting immediately after death?
 
  • #1,334
We already discussed this on previous page.

The source of this story is CdM, equivalent of Daily Star in the UK but the actual journalist ( among a group who wrote this article) is the guy called Damaso who is actually Amaral's witness, so someone from Amaral's side.

I don't believe this info is leaked by the PJ, as the new team is highly professional, and they haven't leaked anything in past few months while quietly working on the case.

It might be someone from the phone company that leaked it, or the widow or someone close to her..

Have you read this one? Portugal says balderdash to Scotland Yard, say they've been working on this all along. This article is crazy. Had to read it twice to make sure I was reading it correctly.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/43...eld-their-own-Madeleine-McCann-reconstruction

Portuguese police held their own Madeleine McCann reconstruction

A RECONSTRUCTION by Portuguese detectives of key events on the day Madeleine McCann went missing has helped persuade the country's legal offi-cials to re-open the case, we reveal today.

The detectives, who have been reviewing the case files for two years, went to Praia da Luz on the Algarve a month ago to pursue secret inquiries.

The exercise was the culmination of months of work by four Portuguese detectives based in Porto in the north of the country, who are directly working for the highly respected senior officer Helen Monteiro, an expert on abduction cases.

The work in Luz came before Scotland Yard released photofits of potential suspects on the BBC's Crimewatch show this month.

In Portugal, Ms Monteiro is seen as the driving force finally to get the Madeleine case files re-opened after five years, rather than through the efforts of Scotland Yard.
 
  • #1,335
It was article finally on Joana Morais I read it again about the maintenance man. I hadnt realised before that he had pointed to Roma gypsies etc for burglary. Everytime someone points to someone else it is usually because they are guilty or lying about something.

........................................................................................

Luis F. M. Ferro - Maintenance worker - Date of statement May 7, 2007

Comes to the case records and in the quality of a witness. That he is a maintenance worker at the tourist resort "Ocean Club" since March 2006. That in this tourist resort he is in charge of he maintenance of pools and all that relates with the properties. That in the sequence of of his work he moves around the whole resort, without restrictions, and that he knows it fairly well. Asked, he states that he is aware of the disappearance of the English girl named Madeleine, and that he learned about it on May 4 through the news in the media. He states that he worked at the resort close to 15h30 on the day of the girl's disappearance. Asked, the deponent refers that in the scope of his work and before the day of the girl's disappearance, he has only met the mother, whose name he does not know. This took place on a Tuesday, May 1, in the sequence of a maintenance job that he had to do inside the apartment where the family where lodged, that is, in block G5 letter A. That job was carried out between 10h and 11h, by the deponent and one colleague of his, that he only knows as Mario, and consisted in the repairment of the shutters from the parents bedroom. Following that they also taught the mother of the girl how to operate the washing machine. The lady in question was alone in the apartment. The only rooms in the apartment where he and his colleague were was in the kitchen and in the parents' bedroom. The deponent states that besides that job he does not know if any other work was carried out at the apartment since the arrival of the family to the resort until the day of the girl's disappearance. Asked he states that in the days preceding the girl's disappearance no one had any strange conversations with him related to the tourists, their children, the apartment, the facilities or the running of the resort. He also did not hear conversations of that nature to any other people. On the presence of a person or persons that would have exhibited a strange behaviour the deponent states that he did not see anything unusual. He just refers that, about four months ago, he detected the presence of three gipsies, near a warehouse of the resort, located close by the "Millenium" restaurant, who were trying to take some firewood that was there. The deponent knows that because that area is a warehouse zone and as such has few people circulating, it is usual for individuals of gipsy ethnicity to wander around there searching for scraps. Several thefts have taken place in that area and the deponent believes that their authorship lies with those individuals of gipsy ethnicity whose identifications are unknown to him. Asked, the deponent states that since the disappearance of the girl, Madeleine, until today he has not heard any comments that could help enlighten the motive of the disappearance, and as such, he has no other information that could contribute to that end. And more he didn't say.

FOUND HERE.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/10/english-police-follows-gipsy-lead.html

.................................................................................

The thing is the maintenance men will have full access to keys etc, and empty apartments. I am sure the child ended up in the empty apartment above the McCanns the dog indicated outside. Mind you poor man its only a theory like everyone elses, but there were more then one maintenance men. Thought it was odd he wasnt sure of the name of the guy he was working with?

I think it's quite clear from the statement that he was asked if he had seen anything or anyone unusual. And he gave a considered response. It's hardly the same as someone ringing the police to finger somebody as per Vincent Tabak.

Not that it's important, but I don't find it odd that he didn't know the surname of a colleague. There are lots of people I only know by their first names.
 
  • #1,336
Have you read this one? Portugal says balderdash to Scotland Yard, say they've been working on this all along. This article is crazy. Had to read it twice to make sure I was reading it correctly.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/43...eld-their-own-Madeleine-McCann-reconstruction

Portuguese police held their own Madeleine McCann reconstruction

A RECONSTRUCTION by Portuguese detectives of key events on the day Madeleine McCann went missing has helped persuade the country's legal offi-cials to re-open the case, we reveal today.

The detectives, who have been reviewing the case files for two years, went to Praia da Luz on the Algarve a month ago to pursue secret inquiries.

The exercise was the culmination of months of work by four Portuguese detectives based in Porto in the north of the country, who are directly working for the highly respected senior officer Helen Monteiro, an expert on abduction cases.

The work in Luz came before Scotland Yard released photofits of potential suspects on the BBC's Crimewatch show this month.

In Portugal, Ms Monteiro is seen as the driving force finally to get the Madeleine case files re-opened after five years, rather than through the efforts of Scotland Yard.


Little bit of a healthy competition would actually help this case!

I read in Portugal there are two teams, one working with SY and other working on its own independently.

The other independent team is the one this article is talking about. I was of an impression that these are young people, not sure if I heard it somewhere or it was just my own impression.

My own belief is that they will solve the case before the SY does.. I've got a feeling they have this enthusiasm like in a football game :))
 
  • #1,337
From the Mirror, so I'm still waiting for confirmation.
Take with a grain of salt.

Madeleine McCann 'kidnapper' was 'hotel worker who snatched her after being sacked then DIED in tractor accident'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-kidnapper-hotel-worker-2655757



The newspaper described his departure from the Ocean Club as "fractious" and added: "The motives that could have caused the ex-employee to kidnap the youngster are still being investigated.

"The suspect could have taken the child to commit a sex crime before killing her.

"But he could also have committed the kidnap as a form of retaliation against the Ocean Club.

"His aim could have been to call into question the security of the holiday club but something went wrong and the youngster disappeared."

If it was him my money is on the sex crime aspect. The bit about calling the security of the holiday club into question makes no sense to me as I don't think they ever claimed that it is safe to leave unsupervised children and property in the apartments unlocked.

And do you really want to take the risk of abducting (and murdering) a child in order to call someone's security in question? You could just steal and vandalize something or start fake Facebook rumors.
 
  • #1,338
The new Tractorman scenario actually makes a lot of sense to me, since it possesses a clear motive (retaliation against the park by a disgruntled employee after being sacked) and a clear opportunity (by a very knowledgeable perpetrator with specific information about the park). How can one best retaliate against a vacation park, well just induce a terrible event like this and bookings will drop to zero. Al it needs is: observe the families from the car park near the Ocean club entrance, enter through the open patio door, suggest the kidnap by opening the window, snatch the child, leave through the front door, go round the block (per sniffer dogs), check whether coast is clear on the uphill road, cross the street when the coast is clear and walk to your car in the car park (where the sniffer dogs lost the traces). After that anything could have happened of this in principle innocent 'kidnap', but the bizar media frenzy in the following days might have scared the kidnapper so much, that he decided to kill Maddie and hide her body forever.

How much simpler can we get?

Before you say that disgruntled staff doesn't do this, note that disgruntled employees can do very bad things to the company they work for (famous case in the Netherlands where Ferdi E. kidnapped and killed one of the Albert Heyn CEOs. Motive, revenge to his former colleagues and no relation to Albert Heyn)).

And hey, he might not have had murder intentions at the start and only wanted to suggest a real kidnap to damage the park's reputation, but actually the McCanns calling Sky and inducing the Frenzy could have forced him to it in the end.

Why are there no traces of this man in the apartment, simple, he wore gloves. And secondly, because so many people (20+) were running in and out the apartment before forensic managed to seal it off, that so many traces were disturbed and lost anyway.

Also, the car park from where a man has been seen observing the apartment earlier in the week, is an ideal to spot to park your car. You can easily observe the movements from all the parents and wait for the right window of opportunity. Also nobody will see and connect your car directly to 5A (contrary to when you park it in front of 5A). Then the front door exit is much safer as an escape, since if you would encounter one of the parents coming up, the patio door exit is risky since you'll meet them head on. Also turning left, rather than right (shorter route) and then going around the block is much safer since you minimize the distance (and the risk of an encounter) between the car park and your location at the end of the foot path in front of 5A.

And maybe the suspicious Tractor accident was suicide induced by not being able to cope with the tragedy anymore...

It all fits and could be the real deal.
 
  • #1,339
The new Tractorman scenario actually makes a lot of sense to me, since it possesses a clear motive (retaliation against the park by a disgruntled employee after being sacked) and a clear opportunity (by a very knowledgeable perpetrator with specific information about the park). How can one best retaliate against a vacation park, well just induce a terrible event like this and bookings will drop to zero. Al it needs is: observe the families from the car park near the Ocean club entrance, enter through the open patio door, suggest the kidnap by opening the window, snatch the child, leave through the front door, go round the block (per sniffer dogs), check whether coast is clear on the uphill road, cross the street when the coast is clear and walk to your car in the car park (where the sniffer dogs lost the traces). After that anything could have happened of this in principle innocent 'kidnap', but the bizar media frenzy in the following days might have scared the kidnapper so much, that he decided to kill Maddie and hide her body forever.

How much simpler can we get?

Before you say that disgruntled staff doesn't do this, note that disgruntled employees can do very bad things to the company they work for (famous case in the Netherlands where Ferdi E. kidnapped and killed one of the Albert Heyn CEOs. Motive, revenge to his former colleagues and no relation to Albert Heyn)).

And hey, he might not have had murder intentions at the start and only wanted to suggest a real kidnap to damage the park's reputation, but actually the McCanns calling Sky and inducing the Frenzy could have forced him to it in the end.

Why are there no traces of this man in the apartment, simple, he wore gloves. And secondly, because so many people (20+) were running in and out the apartment before forensic managed to seal it off, that so many traces were disturbed and lost anyway.

Also, the car park from where a man has been seen observing the apartment earlier in the week, is an ideal to spot to park your car. You can easily observe the movements from all the parents and wait for the right window of opportunity. Also nobody will see and connect your car directly to 5A (contrary to when you park it in front of 5A). Then the front door exit is much safer as an escape, since if you would encounter one of the parents coming up, the patio door exit is risky since you'll meet them head on. Also turning left, rather than right (shorter route) and then going around the block is much safer since you minimize the distance (and the risk of an encounter) between the car park and your location at the end of the foot path in front of 5A.

And maybe the suspicious Tractor accident was suicide induced by not being able to cope with the tragedy anymore...

It all fits and could be the real deal.

This would exclude the Smiths sighting! Unless he drove to near the beach and left his car somewhere near the Smiths and then went on foot.

Again, why?

And why kill the child if your intention is just to make a mess to your employer? Couldn't he just start a fire?
Unless he was sacked because he was actually not mentally well?

Or he had some criminal links so he actually sold the child?

He could just let her walk free anywhere really.. no need to kill..
 
  • #1,340
On the afternoon of May 3, the other members of the Tapas group, and their children, went to the beach and then had a meal at the beachfront restaurant. Apparently the adults had drinks and the kids ate ice cream.

From PJ Files: the Mccanns' statements:
During that period she saw the rest of the group, children and grownups; she was disappointed as nobody had told her that they were going to the beach and Madeleine surely would have loved to have gone with them. She cannot confirm whether she went to the apartment between the tennis game and the jog.

When she finished jogging, at around 5:20/5:30 p.m., she went to the Tapas area. Gerry was there, as well as the twins and Madeleine who were having dinner at separate tables. Madeleine had been taken to the area by the nannies. Her parents were required to sign the register when the meal was over, at around 5.30 p.m.. During the meal Kate asked Madeleine if she was sad because the other children in the group had gone to the beach without her; she replied that she wasn’t, but was rather tired
.

It seems odd that Madeleine and the twins weren't invited to go to the beach with the rest of the group. I can't help wondering if the tiff between GM and KM caused the other Tapas to keep their distance that day. The previous evening, K was angry with G, and they returned separately to their apartment.

Most of us have observed a quarrel between spouses; sometimes it is quite embarrassing, particularly if they have been drinking. Maybe they decided not to 'invite' the M's to go as a group to the beach.

PS It seems that the kids club kids went boating on at least one occasion. My mother would have never let her 3-4 year old child go off with a group like that-neither would I. I would have definitely been either on the boat with her or standing on the shore watching like a hawk! This, from parents who didn't want to leave the kids with a strange babysitter in the evenings when they were only 40/50/60/75 (take your choice) yards away...
 
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