Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[haden]

Kate and Gerry McCann say reports that hotel worker kidnapped Madeleine are "pure speculation"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-kate-gerry-say-2657738#ixzz2jFJ80BhX

 

[Inana]

Scout for a little girl?

Maybe.

 

[~n/t~]

Here you go.

Blame the dead guy. :waitasec:

 

[gord]

Ok so the latest update is madeleine was abducted by a disgruntled ex employee who killed her and he died in a tractor accident. Did I get that right?

That's the news coming from certain parts of Portuguese media and the reason the police got the case reopened . Take it for what you want.

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[~n/t~]

Kate and Gerry McCann say reports that hotel worker kidnapped Madeleine are "pure speculation"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-kate-gerry-say-2657738#ixzz2jFJ80BhX

Ok. They know more than the rest of us I guess even though I don't believe the tractor man is the guy.

They want a live madeleine. A dead madeleine would jeopardize their fund.

 

[haden]

Actually by researching my old posts I came up with something quite interesting to me.. my own profiling of the abductor in May2007.. this was in the first days, even before Robert Murat was questioned.. that time I was very much into this case, knew every little detail reported..any thoughts on this?

What is on my mind is 'maybe a boyfriend' who visited some of the staff girls often.. and worked in the resort previously or on part-time basis..
I do not know why I say this but this has popped to my mind .. as a similar situation happened in my husband's work when his wallet was stolen from his office - his immediate suspicion was on a boyfriend of a staff..

So I would picture ( or profile ) the potential abductor as someone:

who has links with the staff ( boyfriend of foreign origin?) who has a car and visits the resort often ( or has done in past) and has possibly worked there for a while but stopped ( maybe as a waiter/plumber/.. who has changeable address and changes jobs easily and maybe was in army or similar in past..someone who you wouldn't suspect would be able to do such thing ..who currently maybe delivers stuff to local area.. does some type of sport ( I say this because of the window and child carrying stuff - you need to be fit for this) ..maybe works with local children as a sport trainer.. children like him.. person who hasn't achieved as much ..maybe failed in some sport achievement ..so he is only 'big' in eyes of children.."

A person of strange discipline, either too tidy or too untidy/or switches between two


And do not ask me why I say this.. it comes from some kind of analysing of my brain .. which I do not control.."

I would add to this more about the discipline:

- possibly his car/house is very tidy.. he goes mad if something is moved

- or his house car is untidy / he is the genius who knows how to control his chaos..

- he would more look than act so I believe this person is showing himself in public as a very clean dressed and has phobia of this..

A 'person of action' is really what is clear here..

 

[haden]

So basically unless it's the mccanns its whitewash. This whitewash seems to include a lot of people now from uk politicians to SY to now the Portuguese who are prepared to cover up a crime such as this.

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They cannot get anything from the PJ so they are making up stories...

 

[Pisces Cloud]

Ok. They know more than the rest of us I guess even though I don't believe the tractor man is the guy.

They want a live madeleine. A dead madeleine would jeopardize their fund.

In other words, whatever they do is going to be wrong.

 

[haden]

The new Tractorman scenario actually makes a lot of sense to me, since it possesses a clear motive (retaliation against the park by a disgruntled employee after being sacked) and a clear opportunity (by a very knowledgeable perpetrator with specific information about the park). How can one best retaliate against a vacation park, well just induce a terrible event like this and bookings will drop to zero. Al it needs is: observe the families from the car park near the Ocean club entrance, enter through the open patio door, suggest the kidnap by opening the window, snatch the child, leave through the front door, go round the block (per sniffer dogs), check whether coast is clear on the uphill road, cross the street when the coast is clear and walk to your car in the car park (where the sniffer dogs lost the traces). After that anything could have happened of this in principle innocent 'kidnap', but the bizar media frenzy in the following days might have scared the kidnapper so much, that he decided to kill Maddie and hide her body forever.

How much simpler can we get?

Before you say that disgruntled staff doesn't do this, note that disgruntled employees can do very bad things to the company they work for (famous case in the Netherlands where Ferdi E. kidnapped and killed one of the Albert Heyn CEOs. Motive, revenge to his former colleagues and no relation to Albert Heyn)).

And hey, he might not have had murder intentions at the start and only wanted to suggest a real kidnap to damage the park's reputation, but actually the McCanns calling Sky and inducing the Frenzy could have forced him to it in the end.

Why are there no traces of this man in the apartment, simple, he wore gloves. And secondly, because so many people (20+) were running in and out the apartment before forensic managed to seal it off, that so many traces were disturbed and lost anyway.

Also, the car park from where a man has been seen observing the apartment earlier in the week, is an ideal to spot to park your car. You can easily observe the movements from all the parents and wait for the right window of opportunity. Also nobody will see and connect your car directly to 5A (contrary to when you park it in front of 5A). Then the front door exit is much safer as an escape, since if you would encounter one of the parents coming up, the patio door exit is risky since you'll meet them head on. Also turning left, rather than right (shorter route) and then going around the block is much safer since you minimize the distance (and the risk of an encounter) between the car park and your location at the end of the foot path in front of 5A.

And maybe the suspicious Tractor accident was suicide induced by not being able to cope with the tragedy anymore...

It all fits and could be the real deal.

This scenario of the Tractorman has been rubbished by the McCanns..
That means they still believe Madeleine is alive.
But there are still few bits that are interesting about the dogs route.
1. Batista supermarket closed at around 8pm - as long as I remember
2. Only open shop at that time of the night 10pm was an Indian take away - this I got from search of the shops in the area back in 2007.. since it was close to the place where the dogs lost the track I thought it would be really good to question the Take away staff whether they had any customers at that late night..
3. I think I also read somewhere that Batista supermarket staff would leave at 8pm but their kitchen would still be open.. and also if I remember correct their deliveries were late in the evening
All close to the place where the dogs lost their track.

 

[Fierljepper]

This scenario of the Tractorman has been rubbished by the McCanns..
That means they still believe Madeleine is alive.
But there are still few bits that are interesting about the dogs route.
1. Batista supermarket closed at around 8pm - as long as I remember
2. Only open shop at that time of the night 10pm was an Indian take away - this I got from search of the shops in the area back in 2007.. since it was close to the place where the dogs lost the track I thought it would be really good to question the Take away staff whether they had any customers at that late night..
3. I think I also read somewhere that Batista supermarket staff would leave at 8pm but their kitchen would still be open.. and also if I remember correct their deliveries were late in the evening
All close to the place where the dogs lost their track.

From this section of the McCann files http://www.mccannfiles.com/id94.html I read that the sniffer dogs never made it to the Supermarket (a false report in the press). The dogs followed the same route 'around the block' on May 4th and 8th and both on occasions also lost track at the parking lot.

 

[Morag]

Maybe, but it doesn't seem to have affected their evening arrangements.

True, but they had no choice- G and K were the first ones there that evening.
Anyway,by that time, everyone had presumably mellowed out with beverages at the beach restaurant and white wine in the apartment.

 

[haden]

From this section of the McCann files http://www.mccannfiles.com/id94.html I read that the sniffer dogs never made it to the Supermarket (a false report in the press). The dogs followed the same route 'around the block' on May 4th and 8th and both on occasions also lost track at the parking lot.

I know.. but it was close to the supermarket.

Due to 'importance' of Jane Tanners sighting at the time, this 'route' did not find any importance in investigation.

But now we know that Jane Tanner sighting is not taken into consideration, this might be of importance.

What I was thinking at that time was: what would be open around this area at that time of the night.. and it seemed nothing except for the take away.. who would be around, supermarket evening staff, deliveries etc..

Also this spot where the dogs lost the trail was the place where OC workers parked their cars..so I wonder if previous investigation ever found out whose car was parked there often. The local residents in the blocks around would know that but I think Amaral never bothered to ask them..

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...madeleine-mccann/story-fnihsmjt-1226750092190

 

[Fierljepper]

I know.. but it was close to the supermarket.

Due to 'importance' of Jane Tanners sighting at the time, this 'route' did not find any importance in investigation.

But now we know that Jane Tanner sighting is not taken into consideration, this might be of importance.

What I was thinking is: what would be open around this area at that time of the night.. and it seemed nothing except for the take away.. who would be around, supermarket evening staff, deliveries etc..

Also this spot where the dogs lost the trail was the place where OC workers parked their cars..so I wonder if previous investigation ever found out whose car was parked there often. The local residents in the blocks around would know that but I think Amaral never bothered to ask them..

Agree. The route around the block of the dogs is strange. If this was a planned pedophile abduction, an abductor would never take the risk of going around the block. Also, the McCanns would not have taken that route (certainly not in the evening, why would you). However, if this is a one-man's job, he/she had to watch the movements of the family and hence needed his car in that specific car park (that oversees everything). So, walking into 5A via the patio is easy and maybe the window was opened as a precaution to avoid becoming trapped in the room (or to suggest a kidnap). But his return route is much more risky esp now with a child in the arms. Just turning right is risky since you can't check what's around the corner, so going around the block and ending up already down hill, allows you to check whether the coast is clear and then make a rush to the car.

Just my thinking.

 

[jigzy]

So basically unless it's the mccanns its whitewash. This whitewash seems to include a lot of people now from uk politicians to SY to now the Portuguese who are prepared to cover up a crime such as this.

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I think they are all publicly opening Pandora's Box, just to close it again and let it lie. Closure.

I think the 'new' Portuguese cops are out there to show that they are taking the 'abductor' theory seriously, just ahead of Amaral having his butt whupped by the legals for the book. Distancing themselves. The powers that be will bring the McCanns out of this just fine.

Call me a conspiracy nut if you like, but I have been with this from day one - right when Steve Huff's blog almost collapsed under the weight of posts by people thinking there was something 'off' about the whole thing.

Spin, misdirection, distraction and more spin.


jmo

 

[haden]

Agree. The route around the block of the dogs is strange. If this was a planned pedophile abduction, an abductor would never take the risk of going around the block. Also, the McCanns would not have taken that route (certainly not in the evening, why would you). However, if this is a one-man's job, he/she had to watch the movements of the family and hence needed his car in that specific car park (that oversees everything). So, walking into 5A via the patio is easy and maybe the window was opened as a precaution to avoid becoming trapped in the room (or to suggest a kidnap). But his return route is much more risky esp now with a child in the arms. Just turning right is risky since you can't check what's around the corner, so going around the block and ending up already down hill, allows you to check whether the coast is clear and then make a rush to the car.

Just my thinking.

I completely agree with you!

But apparently the dogs would not follow Madeleine's scent if she was carried.
She had to be walking on her own.
Also this would be her freshest route.

I racked my brain around this for long but I cannot see any solution.

Unless she came out on her own and walked there on her own or someone holding her hands.

What is mostly confusing is the fact that 4 dogs went the same route. And the second set of dogs was sent 4 days apart. This is a big info. For me the most interesting in the files.

* Also the note from the dog handlers that they all went straight out..

 

[Fierljepper]

I completely agree with you!

But apparently the dogs would not follow Madeleine's scent if she was carried.
She had to be walking on her own.
Also this would be her freshest route.

I racked my brain around this for long but I cannot see any solution.

Unless she came out on her own and walked there on her own or someone holding her hands.

What is mostly confusing is the fact that 4 dogs went the same route. And the second set of dogs was sent 4 days apart. This is a big info. For me the most interesting in the files.

* Also the note from the dog handlers that they all went straight out..

Indeed. I didn't know that tracking scent doesn't work when she was carried. If that is the case then I can only imagine that she (sleep) walked the route herself and got caught/kidnapped at exactly that moment (I find to be an extremely unlikely event) or the dogs just followed her trace when they walked back from the pool in the afternoon (I read somewhere that there was a friend of her living in the next block). This would make some sense since the patio door probably was locked by the McCanns when they all went to the pool, so they had to use the front door anyway.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

I completely agree with you!

But apparently the dogs would not follow Madeleine's scent if she was carried.
She had to be walking on her own.
Also this would be her freshest route.

I racked my brain around this for long but I cannot see any solution.

Unless she came out on her own and walked there on her own or someone holding her hands.

What is mostly confusing is the fact that 4 dogs went the same route. And the second set of dogs was sent 4 days apart. This is a big info. For me the most interesting in the files.

* Also the note from the dog handlers that they all went straight out..

I gather that she never walked that route with her parents before for the dogs to pick up. I can't see her walking willingly with an abductor that way, unless they've somehow talked her into going with them. Then again why take the time to walk her when they could carry her with the same results. I do think it's very possible that she was put into a waiting car, though.

 

[haden]

Indeed. I didn't know that tracking scent doesn't work when she was carried. If that is the case then I can only imagine that she (sleep) walked the route herself and got caught/kidnapped at exactly that moment (I find to be an extremely unlikely event) or the dogs just followed her trace when they walked back from the pool in the afternoon (I read somewhere that there was a friend of her living in the next block). This would make some sense since the patio door probably was locked by the McCanns when they all went to the pool, so they had to use the front door anyway.

I am not sure if anyone of the group stayed there. This was a parking lot across the road from the OC reception.
And if someone stayed there why the dogs did not go to the apartment of the friends but they all stopped at the same parking place?

Kate implicitly said Madeleine would not come out on her own.. she said she knew her child.. but it happened to my own sister recently, she would never dream her little daughter would wander away but she did.. luckily she was found and after 20 minutes of search, she is only 2 but she went on hew own quite far away.

Still, this is quite puzzling, these dogs routes.. and this is quote close to the moment she was discovered missing.

But lets say Madeleine did come out on her own.. and went to that parking area.. what happened to her then?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think that with todays news that is is obvious that she was taken and that the police know she was taken. They have a viable suspect in the kidnapping. They are not painting broad strokes but specifically coloring the details while investigating.

It certainly makes for a good solid theory and motive.