Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 20

[colomom]

THIS JUST BIZARRE!!!!!!

Not so bizarre if you consider:

And that took me about 10 minutes to collect all of those.

Strangest mother (of a missing baby girl who may be in the hands of a gang of pedophiles) that I have ever seen.

 

[Bandini]

What partying and sightseeing did they do?

Please go back and read my post again. I said "I would not do....". I did not say the McCanns went sightseeing and such. The question was "put yourself in their shoes", which I did - and then I described how I would conduct myself in the same situation. You're reading things into my post that aren't there and then launching an attack because I don't sit on the same side of the fence that you do. My post may have indirectly implied that the McCanns went sightseeing - and I don't doubt that they did. They went jogging, photos were taken of them out and about with the twins, etc. That's what THEY did. Again, the question was 'WHAT WOULD YOU DO".

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

LOL Colomom

"Don't hate me cuz I'm beautiful"

Seriously, though, What I find strange is Jane Tanner in all of this. Usually beautiful people only hang with other beautiful people...unless the ugly ducking is their user friendly, scape goat, will lie out their teeth for you side kick...who worships the ground you walk on and puts you on a pedestal so high you can almost see eternity, the wind beneath your wings kind of a friend...LOL

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

...As for the rest..If I were them I wouldn't trust the PLE either after they deliberately leaked lies to the press smearing them. A couple of detectives, one the leading detective on Madeleine's case is on criminal charges himself for his part in the beating up of another missing childs mother...
.

***Warning...Graphic***
Are you talking about Leonor Cipiano? The mother who was having an incestuous relationship with her brother Joao? Who both sexually abused little Joana, with witnesses to prove she was assaulted, and large amounts of her blood found in their refrigerator? The one who confessed to the murder to her father, and the brother confessed to his attorney? The one who chopped up her daughter and put body parts into junk yard scrap cars that where then crushed and shipped to Spain for recycling?

Have you read the Cipriano trial files? They are available for anyone who is interested in reading what facts were, proved before the judge and jury. The Ciprianos were not convicted because the PJ forced a confession out of them. Confessions...even signed confessions, can be retracted at any point during a trial, and actually rendered invalid and useless. The Ciprianos were convicted because the confession that Mr Cipriano made and signed in front of his own lawyer, detailed the murder and dismemberment of his niece's body. The police then worked from these details backwards, searching for forensic evidence, (led by Joao himself) to corroborate the confession. Once they knew where to look and what to look for, according to Mr Cipriano's "instructions", they found the evidence that ultimately convicted the "couple". It was more than enough for a conviction, even without a body.

Any scum bag woman who is capable of doing what she did to her own daughter, is also capable of lying about police brutality...

 

[daffodil]

Please go back and read my post again. I said "I would not do....". I did not say the McCanns went sightseeing and such. The question was "put yourself in their shoes", which I did - and then I described how I would conduct myself in the same situation. You're reading things into my post that aren't there and then launching an attack because I don't sit on the same side of the fence that you do. My post may have indirectly implied that the McCanns went sightseeing - and I don't doubt that they did. They went jogging, photos were taken of them out and about with the twins, etc. That's what THEY did. Again, the question was 'WHAT WOULD YOU DO".

Yes your post DID imply the McCanns had done those things and was misleading.I dont see WHERE I have "launched an attack" so perhaps you could point it out to me please.I merely asked what partying and sightseeing they did perhaps YOU are reading things into MY post that aren't there? :waitasec:

 

[Barnaby]

I agree with everything that Bandini, Colomom & Interestedwoman have said above!
God forbid if my child was missing I would not be thinking of going shopping for jewellery to meet the Pope. I am interested in fashion & like to keep myself well groomed but by gum if I had been in Kate McCanns situation, I wouldn't have given a damn if my hair was standing on end never mind going to have my highlights done, & coordinating jewellery would have been the least of my notions! Kate McCann was always seen with jewellery from the beginning so she obviously had some on holiday with her as most of us bring. What the heck did she need to go shopping for? I can possibly understand her going to buy a respectable suit for the meeting rather than wear holiday clothes but I'm sure the Pope was not one bit interested in whether her earrings were new or not!

& furthermore has anyone ever seen this woman's eyes swollen from crying? Anytime I cry my eyes look awful the next day! they were told not to cry in public fair enough but surely at some time we would have seen signs of crying in private despite make up?

The jogging is just unbelievable, one thing that worry & trauma does is sap all your energy! I have recently been worried about someone who is ill & believe me I have been lying around achieving little, no energy & this is not even a family member!

& for the record I don't think I would ever smile again never mind the huge grins that we saw soon after from the McCanns!!! I am afraid that despite trying to live a normal life for my other children they would have the misfortune to grow up with a deeply depressed mother not one who would frolick, laugh & play days after losing their sibling!!

 

[daffodil]

I agree with everything that Bandini, Colomom & Interestedwoman have said above!
God forbid if my child was missing I would not be thinking of going shopping for jewellery to meet the Pope. I am interested in fashion & like to keep myself well groomed but by gum if I had been in Kate McCanns situation, I wouldn't have given a damn if my hair was standing on end never mind going to have my highlights done, & coordinating jewellery would have been the least of my notions! Kate McCann was always seen with jewellery from the beginning so she obviously had some on holiday with her as most of us bring. What the heck did she need to go shopping for? I can possibly understand her going to buy a respectable suit for the meeting rather than wear holiday clothes but I'm sure the Pope was not one bit interested in whether her earrings were new or not!

& furthermore has anyone ever seen this woman's eyes swollen from crying? Anytime I cry my eyes look awful the next day! they were told not to cry in public fair enough but surely at some time we would have seen signs of crying in private despite make up?

The jogging is just unbelievable, one thing that worry & trauma does is sap all your energy! I have recently been worried about someone who is ill & believe me I have been lying around achieving little, no energy & this is not even a family member!

& for the record I don't think I would ever smile again never mind the huge grins that we saw soon after from the McCanns!!! I am afraid that despite trying to live a normal life for my other children they would have the misfortune to grow up with a deeply depressed mother not one who would frolick, laugh & play days after losing their sibling!!

Do you have a RELIABLE source that says she bought new jewellry and had her hair highlighted? I havent seen that as a FACT anywhere

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

...I
& furthermore has anyone ever seen this woman's eyes swollen from crying? Anytime I cry my eyes look awful the next day! they were told not to cry in public fair enough but surely at some time we would have seen signs of crying in private despite make up?...

All excellent points Barnaby, but the above quote is something I never thought of, and OH SO TRUE. When ever I have a good cry over anything, (a lost pet, a sick child, sad movie, and argument with DH...or worse, a death in the family) My eyes are so puffy the next morning, they hardly open. It just doesn't go away quickly, it takes several hours and a pot of coffee...and forget make-up, it all drips off, as the swelling goes down. Kate always looks as fresh as the new fallen snow. All except one picture I've seen of her, she looks well put together....and NO PUFFY EYES.

 

[colomom]

Actually people, the McCann's did party (sort of). There is a difference between say a dinner party and a New Year's Eve party but the McCanns did alot of socializing with friends and, strangely enough, they often went to see their friends at their houses rather than having them come to the villa. So it appears that they spent alot of time going visiting rather than having people come visit them (other than family). They also managed to squeeze in some sightseeing.

There are a few entries in his blog (http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk) of these types of affairs. For instance:

"We then drove to the concert in Lagos in aid of Madeleine, which is the first large public event in Portugal that I know of supporting the campaign. It was interesting mix of jazz, blues, orchestra and rap!" (Day 35)

"A former world pipe band champion, Alasdair Gillies who is a friend of one of my sisters, has composed a Marvellous March for Madeleine that will be played by 100 pipers from all over the world. It should be quite a spectacle and hopefully it will be a celebration, and not a another marker that Madeleine is still missing." (Day 85)

"We were invited round to some firends for dinner which was great" (Day 53)

"We have met some incredibly lovely people in the last few months. Today we caught up with a fantastic couple that met in London and lived there for 35 years before retiring to the Algarve. They have been incredibly kind to us and the twins very much enjoyed the apple cake we had with them." (Day 107)

And "sightseeing":

"We left the Embassy just after 9.00am and stopped en route to the Vatican, at Piazza Pia for a photo opportunity with St Peters in the distance." (Day 27)

"This afternoon we had a meeting with the British Ambassador at his residence to update him on our meetings. The Embassy itself is a stunning building almost rivalling the Whitehouse" (Day 83)

"We finished with a very quick tour of the public areas in the White House" (Day82)

"visited the Algarve ZooMarine which they really enjoyed, particularly the dolphins." (Day79)

I have also read reports that KM spent alot of time in local bars following Maddie's disappearance. Those reports are unsubstantiated and rumor but, nevertheless they are out there.

We can quibble over the meaning of these terms, partying and sightseeing, but the point is that many people find the McCann's behavior to be very different than what they think they might experience if they were in their shoes.

 

[Morag]

LOL Colomom

"Don't hate me cuz I'm beautiful"

Seriously, though, What I find strange is Jane Tanner in all of this. Usually beautiful people only hang with other beautiful people...unless the ugly ducking is their user friendly, scape goat, will lie out their teeth for you side kick...who worships the ground you walk on and puts you on a pedestal so high you can almost see eternity, the wind beneath your wings kind of a friend...LOL

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...+tanner%27&gbv=2&svnum=10&hl=en&sa=G&ie=UTF-8

Here's the most recent picture of Jane Tanner. I think she's lovely (fabulous cheekbones), certainly more attractive than some of the other Tapas women (and their husbands). The original photos of her when she scowled at the photographers made us think that she was less than attractive. At any rate, her character is what counts, and we don't yet know about that...

 

[colomom]

Do you have a RELIABLE source that says she bought new jewellry and had her hair highlighted? I havent seen that as a FACT anywhere

Daffodil,

If you researched the photographs of Kate over the 4 months they were in PDL it is OBVIOUS that she had her hair highlighted. The streaks and the color in her hair change and she never had roots showing. That one is a given.

As far as jewelry, you are missing the point. The point is (IMO) who wears jewelry when your child is missing? In order to take the time to be carefully groomed and decorated one would have to sit in front of a mirror and "primp". This indicates a level of egotistical behavior that most mother's of missing children would be incapable of. Since is is also obvious that she purchased new clothes in PDL and she almost always had jewelry on in her pictures, chances are pretty good that she purchased accessories with her outfits. It seems that it would be important to her.

Tell us about all the things that Kate did that is indicative of a grieving mother.....please.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Actually people, the McCann's did party (sort of)....

There are a few entries in his blog (http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk) of these types of affairs. For instance:

And "sightseeing":

"We left the Embassy just after 9.00am and stopped en route to the Vatican, at Piazza Pia for a photo opportunity with St Peters in the distance." (Day 27)

"This afternoon we had a meeting with the British Ambassador at his residence to update him on our meetings. The Embassy itself is a stunning building almost rivalling the Whitehouse" (Day 83)

"We finished with a very quick tour of the public areas in the White House" (Day82)

"visited the Algarve ZooMarine which they really enjoyed, particularly the dolphins." (Day79).

Few more to add:

Kate and I started off with an early morning run to the the top of the nearby cliffs. Sean and Amelie were back in kids club and went swimming again (day 24)

Later in the afternoon we went down to the beach and had dinner in one of the restaurants which Sean and Amelie really enjoyed. Sean, in particular has acquired a taste for sea-bass! (day 36)

After this we headed down to Sagres which is the very most southwestern tip of Portugal. There is a very nice beach and we had lunch with the family. (day 37)


Family day spent with Sean, Amelie, our friends and their kids (day 58)

Family day again... Our friends are heading home in the morning and I picked up some family from the airport tonight. (day 59)

Quiet family day (day 65)

Kate and I both managed early morning runs today- it is definitely the time of day to it with the high temperatures in the middle of summer. Getting some aerobic exercise certainly helps us feel better physically and psychologically which helps maintain our positive attitude. (day 67)

I can bet you that a quit family day is not searching for their missing daughter, it's shopping and sightseeing WITH FRIENDS.

 

[Bandini]

The jogging is just unbelievable, one thing that worry & trauma does is sap all your energy! I have recently been worried about someone who is ill & believe me I have been lying around achieving little, no energy & this is not even a family member!


Egg-zackly!!!!! I am a runner/jogger, and I have experienced it, and heard it from others as yourself that worry and trauma affects one physically as well as mentally. When I read that K & G jogged UP THE HILLS within a week or two of Maddie missing, I could not understand how or where they got their energy. Even if they did it out of ANGER, the emotion would sap whatever energy they have. Running, IMO, is 55% mental endurance. Anyway, keeping it on track here - I can't believe that K & G would have it so much "together" mentally that they would be able to hold back sincere tears and anger and fear because they were told not to display emotions. I personally think they use that as an excuse to explain their LACK of emotion, or rather, poor performance of emotion.

Hopefully, one day soon the TRUTH will be known about this case. And a lot of people will owe a lot of other people apologies - no matter which way or how it turns out. It's unfortunate that we must rely on the news media to get most of our information. But we have also been privy to first-hand information via Gerry's "blog" and their interviews/infomercials, in which I have never seen two parents so emotionless and stiff over the loss of their child. The facts speak for themselves on his blog and their interviews - facts that cannot be distorted or misrepresented or lost in the translation. They have put as much or more energy into making themselves look good and innocent as they have in trying to find their daughter, or admitting that they made a mistake.

 

[Gatinho]

I have to say that everyone is focussing too much on the McCanns appearance. How do you know what happens to her eyes when she cries - whether they puff up or not. Everyone is different and react differently.

I think that Gerry's blog has been a PR disaster and also probably not always written by him. The trivia about where they have been and what they have been doing make it seem like they are just enjoying themselves.

I think that people are filling up the void created by the lack of action with their impressions about the parents which count for nothing in the end. Who cares if JT is not as good looking as the others - she certainly responded to the wonders of make up for her TV appearances. But in the end too much of this whole thing has been about image. Image is irrelevant. They are not film stars.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I have to say that everyone is focussing too much on the McCanns appearance. How do you know what happens to her eyes when she cries - whether they puff up or not. Everyone is different and react differently.

I think that Gerry's blog has been a PR disaster and also probably not always written by him. The trivia about where they have been and what they have been doing make it seem like they are just enjoying themselves.

I think that people are filling up the void created by the lack of action with their impressions about the parents which count for nothing in the end. Who cares if JT is not as good looking as the others - she certainly responded to the wonders of make up for her TV appearances. But in the end too much of this whole thing has been about image. Image is irrelevant. They are not film stars.

I hate to be the one to say it, but they, by their own doings, have made themselves into celebrities. Gerry is the Scot of the year, Kate the new pin-up girl and loving every minute of it. They have taken every single opportunity to show their face on every newspaper, and news channel in the world...(while showing off old and out dated pitures of their missing daughter)

Image is everything to the McCanns. If it's so important to them, then it is very important to the case of missing Madeleine McCann.

 

[colomom]

I have to say that everyone is focussing too much on the McCanns appearance. How do you know what happens to her eyes when she cries - whether they puff up or not. Everyone is different and react differently.

I think that Gerry's blog has been a PR disaster and also probably not always written by him. The trivia about where they have been and what they have been doing make it seem like they are just enjoying themselves.

I think that people are filling up the void created by the lack of action with their impressions about the parents which count for nothing in the end. Who cares if JT is not as good looking as the others - she certainly responded to the wonders of make up for her TV appearances. But in the end too much of this whole thing has been about image. Image is irrelevant. They are not film stars.

Sorry but I totally disagree.

Just ONE example of the numerous articles written on the subject:

"Your public image represents who you are and what you do. It is a reflection of your private self image. If your self image needs an occasional boost, you can start by improving your public image. When you portray yourself to the world as confident and competent, you actually increase your self confidence and credibility. You achieve optimum results because people respond more positively." (from: http://www.fripp.com/article.yourimage.html)

The image that you portray has alot to do with how people perceive you. This is human nature. Whether or not it is fair is irrelevant. It is a fact.

For a couple who had PR people up the wahzoo they made some very poor decisions.

They may not be film stars but they are definitely in the public eye and that is exactly what they were trying to achieve.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

It has been widely reported time and again that
Portuguese law forbids the use of private investigaters.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=au

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nmaddy124.xml

Under Portuguese law, the McCanns are not allowed to carry out their own enquiries while the police investigation is ongoing. However, CRG is understood to be focusing on other countries, such as Spain and Morocco, where a number of possible sightings have been reported.
************
And Metodo are not working inside Portugal for the same reason.

************
I think Brian Kennedy, as well as others, have offered to help the McCanns because they believe them, care about Madeleine, and can afford it.
Last edited by april4sky : 01-16-2008 at 01:44 AM. Reason: Added

I didn't get a chance to comment on this before the last thread was locked. I do find it VERY odd that anyone could believe something reported in the news... It seems that we all pick and choose what we want to believe.

All this tells me is that PLE does not want the McCanns interviewing potential suspects or witnesses...which is understandable. It doesn't forbid them from doing a grid search of the area. It doesn't forbid then to leave no stone unturned. Which is what I meant by "SEARCHING" for Maddie (using volunteers on ATV's and horseback physically searching as I stated previously).

If that you insinuate is correct, they would have been arrested the day after Madeleine went missing when they where "walking hand in hand" calling Madeleine's name.

 

[Gatinho]

Sorry but I totally disagree.

Just ONE example of the numerous articles written on the subject:

"Your public image represents who you are and what you do. It is a reflection of your private self image. If your self image needs an occasional boost, you can start by improving your public image. When you portray yourself to the world as confident and competent, you actually increase your self confidence and credibility. You achieve optimum results because people respond more positively." (from: http://www.fripp.com/article.yourimage.html)

The image that you portray has alot to do with how people perceive you. This is human nature. Whether or not it is fair is irrelevant. It is a fact.

For a couple who had PR people up the wahzoo they made some very poor decisions.

They may not be film stars but they are definitely in the public eye and that is exactly what they were trying to achieve.

Fair enough Colomom that you disagree - but the article you quote is about guidance for professionals in their working environment.

I am not keen on the McCanns, I think if I knew them I would not like them very much because they show signs of being quite self absorbed and Gerry particularly seem to have his emotion chip switched off (ref: Star Trek). BUT that has nothing to do with their culpability for Madeleines (we assume) death.

I would cite the treatment that Robert Murat has had ... squinting, sweaty, twitchy, strange, odd and so on. That is his 'public image' and what does that count for? Probably nothing. Probably innocent.

So I am sticking to my guns and saying that I don't care if she bought new earrings before seeing the Pope. Its not what everyone would have done - then speaking personally the Pope is the last person I would have wanted to meet in those circumstances.

 

[colomom]

Fair enough Colomom that you disagree - but the article you quote is about guidance for professionals in their working environment.

Understood Gatinho. I probably should have just highlighted the first sentence. That was the main idea I was trying to get across. I was hoping most would get the gist of my meaning.

I happen to agree with you that too much attention has been paid to insignificant things in this case. However, we are a group that has been very dedicated to continuing the discussion about Maddie and her disappearance in an effort to not let her be forgotten and to insure that SHE gets the justice she deserves.

If we have to have discussions like these in order to achieve that, then so be it.

Just keep talking......

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I would like to discuss the love/hate relationship the McCanns have with the country of Portugal. When they went on Holiday, they surely took time researching places to go with 3 toddlers. SURELY, they did an Internet search of the country, and the area to find out how child friendly it was. There is a giant planet called Earth that has many affordable, and safe family sunny beach areas...

They WANTED to go there, they chose to go there, they paid good money to go there, and admitted they felt safe there...

BUT NOW...it apparently is chocked full of paedophiles, gypsies, creeps, dodgy men, corrupt police, and apparently kidnappers. How could they not have known this prior to leaving if they bothered to research?

So why did they go there? of all places in the world? They have nothing but horrible things to say about it.